2000 K3500 6.5td surges/idles high and smokes, undriveable....

[ontario026]

Hi guys, hope someone has some good advice for me... So I bought a duramax about october, to replace the 2000 K3500 6.5TD dually that I've had for a couple years... the old dually always ran ok for me, not great power, and smoked a little under load, I don't think it was making as much boost as it should have been, but always started and drove ok without any issues... so I stopped driving the dually when I got the duramax, and the dually mostly sat after that, except for moving the odd trailer around my business lot, etc... then I put the old girl up for sale before christmas a little, and then a guy on boxing day stopped by my place of business when I was not there and took a quick look around the old girl, and doors were not locked, not sure what all he possibly may have done if anything, then he called and made arrangements for me to meet him the next day so he could see it run and take it for a drive...

so next morning, I threw a charger on it for a bit, just to make sure batteries were 100% but waited for him to show up to do a cold start with him... (always did puff a little cloud upon cold start).. this time though it was very hard to start, and then when it did start, the engine races, and surges from very high down to about normal and then back up again and just keeps surging/screaming away, and smoking like a crack whore, thick black/dark grey ish smoke.... It doesn't seem to be setting an engine light, and throttle pedal input doesn't seem to have any effect or change anything, it just cycles up and down from low to high to low rpm all the while smoking away...

i read somewhere that possible cruise control module failure may cause over fueling, I didn't know what to unplug for cruise module, but I yanked the cruise control fuse out and it didn't seem to make any effect....


I also just after his visit back christmas time, thought since it was cold and I hadn't operated the truck much for a couple months that maybe the diesel was summer fuel and maybe gelling up, so I added some conditioner to the tank, and was able to limp the truck using it's surging around my building and into a small work bay that I have where there is heat, and even after a few days at room temperature it did not make a change....

any suggestions on things to check?? I hate to think that the guy who had come to look at it, and was there the previous day may have sabotaged it in some way, more than likely it was just a coincidence, but the potential is there....

thanks for your time fellas....

[JohnC]

You don't happen to have a spare fuel solenoid driver you could try, do you? It sounds like it's going full throttle until it detects a fault, then it's cutting fuel.

[ontario026]

unfortunately no spare parts.... any way to test the fuel solenoid driver?? I just want to get this thing running like it did before and sell the darn thing, I don't really want to put much money into it, what's a fuel solenoid driver worth? big job to change?

[ontario026]

can anyone tell me, I was doing a little googling, and if I buy a new PMD and a relocator kit, instead of removing the original pmd, can I just leave in place, and just unplug it and plug in the new pmd and relocator? and hopefully be back running again? \\

i watched a youtube video from a fellow about pmd relocator and he described pmd problems, and said a lot of the time when they fail, the engine just dies... but he also described them failing and the engine doing pretty well the same thing mine is doing.....

[Robyn]

YES YOU CAN RELOCATE AND LEAVE THE OLD ONE...

Be sure you insert the proper resistor into the PMD socket.
If you can get a mirror and see up into the socket and read the number on the resistor.

If you can't do it just use a number 5 resistor.

Normally a runaway related to a bad PMD will be full throttle until red line and then shut down....

Not surging.

Before you spend a buttload of time chasing the wind...install a clear plastic tube into the fuel return line at the IP ( MAKE A SHORT COUPLING TO GET A LENGTH OF CLEAR TUBE INTO THE SYSTEM

FIRE THE RIG AND WATCH FOR A STREAM OF AIR BUBBLES

My guess is you have an air leak..

Check this out and keep us in the loop.

Air can enter from the lift pump back to the tank and into the pickup tube...

[ontario026]

thanks for the reply Robyn, it does pretty well surge to redline before dropping.... would it be best to use the resistor from the original pmd in the new one?? can I reuse the original resistor? any input on the PMD with relocator available from amazon for like 200 canadian? like I say, I just want to get this running again to sell it.....

[DmaxMaverick]

unfortunately no spare parts.... any way to test the fuel solenoid driver???

Yep. Position yourself next to a large body of water (lake, pond, ocean, etc.). Throw the PMD/FSD far into said body of water. If it floats, it's good.

Replacing the PMD is simple, but has a few snags. A relocator kit is a good idea, as long as it has a large heat sink, and you mount it OUTSIDE the engine compartment and into an area with fresh air.

There will be a small resistor CB (circuit board) card inside the old PMD. It spans a few pins, and can be retrieved with a dental pick/hook or bent paper clip. Be very careful to not drop it into the valley (of no return). If your new PMD comes with a resistor (many do), use that one and leave the resistor in the old PMD. If the new PMD comes with one, it may be a #5, which is fine. Just use it and don't look back. If it's an option to include one with your purchase, seriously consider it for the sake of convenience.

[JohnC]

A scanner can read the value of the current resistor stored in the PCM. Even if you swap it with the "wrong" one, it will have no effect unless the PCM decides to re-learn the value. A TDC offset learn will cause this.

#5 is the middle-of-the-road value. If your pump requires a #1 or a #9 you may notice some mild driveability issues, otherwise you'll never know the difference.

Some of those Amazon kits come with a PMD. You want to know who makes the PMD. I'm not up on who makes a good one, but I'm sure if it's cheap, it's cheap. I'd be especially leery of the ones with bad English text. "This PMD is exactly OEM design to replace your defective module ..."

[ontario026]

thanks for all the advice guys, so I got my $199 canadian amazon.ca PMD with relocator kit just a bit ago... What a pain in the ass getting to the plug on the original PMD. I used a boroscope and bent coat hanger and managed to unplug it, and fished up the connector, and got the relocator extension harness plugged in.... I couldn't even manage to get my boroscope to a position to try and see what the original resistor was, so I just ordered a #5 in to the auto parts store for the morning.... I plugged in the new module with no resistor, and fired it up for a few seconds, and it seems to idle normally now.... will post a review after I take it for a run tomorrow.... I still have it fully insured, but the license plate stickers have expired, here in ontario I know they have "extended" license plate stickers due to the covid virus thing, but not sure if they'd overlook ones expired in november or not? lol i'll take my chance for a shake down run and then try and get this thing sold....

[DmaxMaverick]

It won't hurt anything to run w/o the resistor in place. It will throw a code, eventually, in a day, or a year, or three. Run it now, install it later. Also, cops have better things to do, and won't likely risk a contact over an expired tag when they have a temporary policy to ignore them. No guarantees, though.

[atrak99]

Glad you got your 2000 running again Ontario. I'm new to the PMD troubles and had a few similar questions.
I bought my 2000 K3500 6.5TD dump that I use for work with 85k non running and sitting for a season from a landscaper in Cle, OH needing the included injection pump installed in Spring of 2018 for $2,700. It's dump worked, it had good tires and some other new parts the previous owner had put on. I installed the included pump and couldn't get it to run. A reputable Akron diesel pump mechanic pulled and tested my IP and told me I it was bad. They installed a new pump for $2000. After a year or so that pump ended up failing and the truck needed towed back to same Akron mech. I went home and I researched and learned about the 6.5TD PMD issue and that my truck already had a relocation kit in the grill. I asked why the PMD was left mounted on the side of the new pump and they claimed it would "void the warranty" on the new pump if they used said existing kit. I argued but they said "it could have failed for any reason, bad gas..." and I trusted their word and paid $1000 for my 2nd reconditioned IP. It was installed the same way, PMD on the IP. It's been 5 months. Now, two pumps, a lot of poor communication and $300k total mech bills later the truck runs well on start up (really well on a cold morning) and then 20 mins after she gets warm she runs poorly all day with higher rpms, speed loss, and vibration at stop lights like the engine is fighting itself. I'm frustrated as hell and feel they're at fault for scamming me on a second pump bc I was naive to the PMD issue. I'm going back to the mech and If they tell me "not our problem/ they can't or won't at the very least rewire my pump to the truck's existing relocation kit as retribution: 1. Can I do damage to my IP when it's running poorly with the faulty PMD issue (even if you putt it down the road gently)? 2. Mech HAS TO know about the 6.5TD PMD issue. Are they scamming/ is this a valid small claims court case? 3. If I do unplug from the stock PMD and switch to the relocation, how do I know the driver that's in the relocation kit on the truck is safe for the pump or that it works? 3. Does using a new driver require engine adjustment or is it plug & play? 4. What is the resistor issue?

[DmaxMaverick]

I'm copying this to a new thread. Answers to this should be posted there.



Glad you got your 2000 running again Ontario. I'm new to the PMD troubles and had a few similar questions.
I bought my 2000 K3500 6.5TD dump that I use for work with 85k non running and sitting for a season from a landscaper in Cle, OH needing the included injection pump installed in Spring of 2018 for $2,700. It's dump worked, it had good tires and some other new parts the previous owner had put on. I installed the included pump and couldn't get it to run. A reputable Akron diesel pump mechanic pulled and tested my IP and told me I it was bad. They installed a new pump for $2000. After a year or so that pump ended up failing and the truck needed towed back to same Akron mech. I went home and I researched and learned about the 6.5TD PMD issue and that my truck already had a relocation kit in the grill. I asked why the PMD was left mounted on the side of the new pump and they claimed it would "void the warranty" on the new pump if they used said existing kit. I argued but they said "it could have failed for any reason, bad gas..." and I trusted their word and paid $1000 for my 2nd reconditioned IP. It was installed the same way, PMD on the IP. It's been 5 months. Now, two pumps, a lot of poor communication and $300k total mech bills later the truck runs well on start up (really well on a cold morning) and then 20 mins after she gets warm she runs poorly all day with higher rpms, speed loss, and vibration at stop lights like the engine is fighting itself. I'm frustrated as hell and feel they're at fault for scamming me on a second pump bc I was naive to the PMD issue. I'm going back to the mech and If they tell me "not our problem/ they can't or won't at the very least rewire my pump to the truck's existing relocation kit as retribution: 1. Can I do damage to my IP when it's running poorly with the faulty PMD issue (even if you putt it down the road gently)? 2. Mech HAS TO know about the 6.5TD PMD issue. Are they scamming/ is this a valid small claims court case? 3. If I do unplug from the stock PMD and switch to the relocation, how do I know the driver that's in the relocation kit on the truck is safe for the pump or that it works? 3. Does using a new driver require engine adjustment or is it plug & play? 4. What is the resistor issue?