Unleaded in Duramax

[LisaBrat]

Yep I did the worse thing I could to my big beautiful 2015 Silverado 3500HD, I put a half a tank of unleaded in the tank. I got about a half a mile down the road and she died. I had her towed to a repair shop. They drained the tank, replaced the fuel filter and put in less than a half of tank of diesel. They called and said the truck was driven with no issues. I went to pick it up and it wouldn't start. The tech came out and after a lot of cranking got it started. Less than a block away it felt like i put on the brake but I didn't. That cleared after a few seconds. Got up to about 55MPH. About a mile it did the throttle back again. This time the Engine Power Reduced warning came up on the display, then a check engine light, then a Fuel Filter Requires Replacement. I limped it home and parked. Is this a normal occurrence after the bone head move? Or is there something seriously wrong? I'm still under manufacturer powertrain warranty so I'm afraid of taking it into the dealer to be checked out. I don't want the powertrain warranty voided but I also want to ensure experts are working on it. Any suggestions? I've been beating myself up for doing this. The truck only has 35K miles.

[Yukon6.2]

I have had to help quite a few people in your situation over the years of owning a shop.
I would get a couple of quarts of 2 cycle oil or more and add them to your fuel,if you only have 1/2 tank then mix the oil in some diesel before you add it.Then remove the codes and take it for a drive and see what happens.
There should be no damage to anything.
One lady had a brand new Dodge/cummins that added over 3/4 tank of gas it it. She was able to drive 25 miles till she encountered a construction site and had to stop. The truck died and wouldn't restart.
I drained the tank added 2 cycle oil and fresh fuel.New filter and injection lines got purged.
Truck ran fine,she wanted no record of our work because of the fact it was a brand new truck.She sent a postcard 6 months later,truck ran fine no after effects from the gas.

[DmaxMaverick]

Welcome aboard!

In many/most cases, I would agree with Yukon. However, these new(er) trucks with their emission systems is a different story. Old school was, if it wasn't too much gas in the mix, just thicken it up with some oil, and run it out. This is not a good idea on the late model Diesel engines. All of the old contaminated fuel should be removed and the system flushed from the tank to the high pressure pump. I seriously doubt the little running you did permanently damaged anything, but damage is possible. Continued running will eventually cause damage. If the computer attempted to run a regen (likely), it is important to flush that system as well. The engine can and will survive significant contamination, but the later (2011+) DPF system won't. I do not recommend running or driving it until this is complete, so it needs to be done where it is, or towed to a shop. If you have comprehensive insurance, most of them cover such incidents, including damaged system components. If that's the case, there's really no reason to not get it done properly. Good luck, and please let us know how it turns out.

[richp]

Hi,

I once did that with my old 6.5, literally out in the middle of nowhere in Utah. No place to go for service or to drain and re-fill.

Added a full bottle of Power Service ( the only thing I had for lubricity) and drove it with my eye on the pyro reading, to keep from melting the pistons. Topped off the tank at the next fuel station (to dilute the gas), and continued to noodle along, then topped off once again. (Should have, but didn't think to buy and put some two cycle oil in at this point).By the time I got to a location where I could have had it serviced, it was running cool enough and the gas had been diluted enough that I didn't bother with the full remedial steps ordinarily recommended.

(Note there are many who think gas contamination in diesel bulk tanks is not unheard of.)

What i did is not highly recommended, and certainly sketchy for the newer trucks. But I got away with it and the truck ran for many tens of thousands of miles after that with no problem.

FWIW.

[More Power]

We have a older thread here in The Diesel Page Forums that discusses gasoline.


Gasoline in my 6.6 Duramax
https://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=23142

Good luck,

Jim

[LisaBrat]

Thank you for the advice. Im trying to find a reputable shop in my area to take it to that wont rip me off. Most places up here see a female walk in and only see a dollar sign. When I asked if they purged the fuel lines I was told they drained the tank, Im sure theres still unleaded in the lines. Is there a reason why it would throw the check engine light and say the fuel filter needs to be replaced? Unless they didnt do the work they said they did. All I keep asking is why did I make this huge mistake. I tow horses with this truck so reliability is a must. I just hope She can be fixed and be back to the perfect running truck she was.

[LisaBrat]

The technician last night mentioned there could be air in the fuel lines. Not good. If that is the case how can that be purged out? I just want to be educated as much as I can so I can ask the important questions. I dont trust many people with my vehicles. Now get to add myself to that. lol

[DmaxMaverick]

If the engine will run, and continue to run, any air in the system will purge itself. Any air that remains will be of little concern. Too much air will cause a stall. The high pressure pump draws fuel from the tank (no fuel lift pump, mechanical, electrical, or otherwise), but will not self-prime.

Priming is simple. Depress the primer pump (vertical cylinder sticking up) on top of the filter assy several times until it is hard (may take a few, or a lot, depending on how much air). Open the filter bleed screw (on top, just inboard of the primer pump) to allow air to escape. Pump until airless fuel escapes. Close bleeder screw (gently, it is plastic, but sealed with an O-ring), and pump the primer until hard again. Done. Start. If you have to repeat this to continue running after a repeated stall, there is an air leak somewhere, usually the filter gasket (O-ring) itself where it meets the filter assy, or a cracked bleed screw (that someone overtightened).

[LisaBrat]

Thank you DmaxMaverick, I will take a look at it. After watching fuel filter install videos there are a couple things they possibly did incorrect. As you mentioned the o-ring, the bleed screw and improper purging. Just makes me a bit mad that they did not drain the fuel out of the lines. By the sounds of it there was still a fair amount of unleaded in all of the lines and possibly the tank. They didnt drop the tank when they drained the fuel. I only hope when they were driving it there wasnt damage done and what Im dealing with is just that.

[rapidoxidationman]

Been there, done that on my LLY, 2,500 miles from home.:eek: I have yet to understand why some gas stations in North Carolina use green handles on their gasoline pumps, but so it goes and it got me good. Had 1/3 tank pumped into 1/3 tank of diesel when I noticed what was going in. The truck ran, but wouldn't start when hot. I put all kinds of diesel additives in and about 10 miles later (at my friend's house) siphoned out about 20 gallons of the mix and replaced it with the proper fuel. No ill effects, and that was well over 150K miles ago.

[LisaBrat]

Rapidoxidationman I’m glad your situation had a good ending. I hope mine will have the same ending. I have to coordinate with AAA to get it towed to a different shop. I hope it’s just something simple and inexpensive. So all of the handles there are green? In Cali they are green and a different design. Sucky thing is I picked up the unleaded handle but selected diesel, it still dispensed unleaded. The worker of the station said there’s nothing wrong with the pump.

Thank you to everyone for words of encouragement and advice, I appreciate it. I was in tears as soon as I realized what I did. Fingers crossed there’s no serious damage and she’ll be back on the road.

[LisaBrat]

Update****
Got my truck towed to a different shop. First thing he did was check the fuel filter bleed screw and plunger, it was completely soft. He said the air was never purged out of the system. He spent time running through codes, injector health, bank duty cycles. The numbers were slightly low but he suspected it was due to air in the fuel system. He put it into the shop and did a regen, it took about 9:54 minutes. Everything looked great. The slightly low injector numbers and bank duty cycles all came back to normal ranges. He went to start it for a test drive, it wouldn’t start again. Next he took a fuel sample out of the fuel filter. He had me smell it, the majority was still unleaded in the system. He immediately called the first shop to see how they drained the fuel system. They said they dropped the tank and did a complete drain and purge of the fuel system. We knew this to be a lie. The tank was never dropped, the straps were untouched, bolts untouched and the dirt on the tank was untouched. He asked the first mechanic “you only charged $159.90 to drop the tank and do a complete purge of the fuel system, the technician said yes. The first shop wanted to come pick up my truck to look at it. I said no they are not to touch my truck again. They had an opportunity the first time to do it right. Oh and another thing, the first tech left a tool in my engine compartment. I’m an aircraft mechanic, this is a huge no no. Maybe I can sell it back to him for $650.00. So now just waiting for the work to be done all over again and this time it will be done correctly. The owner of the shop my truck is at now is documenting everything, including pictures. I will be going after the first shop if they do not do the right thing and give me my money back. The never ending saga. Why couldn’t I just pick the correct handle?

[DmaxMaverick]

I hope it ends well for you, and your truck.

A note on the fuel filter priming plunger:
It's suppose to be "soft". After it's pumped up hard and the engine ran (or attempted), any "pressure" that made it "not soft", will be gone and the system will be in a vacuum state once again. Pumping the primer only draws fuel from the tank and pushes it against the high pressure pump. Once the high pressure pump is primed, it pulls fuel from the tank (through the fuel filter). The truck is not factory-equipped with a fuel lift pump, although you can add one. This can be very beneficial to fuel system health, and allows for easy fuel system priming (no more hand pumping).

Did you get a pic of the tool in place? Snap-On or Harbor Freight? (may be an indicator of the quality level of the shop) Does it have a name or ID mark on it? If it's Snap-on, hold it for ransom.

[LisaBrat]

The new technician mentioned there wasn’t anything in the fuel filter?? I’m slowly learning about this as things are going on. The fuel system was never properly purged like what they claimed. I’m sure they just siphoned the tank and called it good to take a short cut. The service manager sounded concerned when the new technician called her. But how much of that concern is concern for the shops liability in this whole ordeal?

The tool looks to be a Cornwell flat tip screw driver, it’s green and black like what is on the Cornwell website. Probably from loosing/tightening the bleed screw? I just want my truck back and to be done properly. I’ve spent a lot of money on this truck and work my a$$ off to keep it. I’m hoping there’s no damage now and no long term damage after all is said and done. My worry is with how long the unleaded has now been in the truck, it’s been a week now. I was told the longer it’s in there, the greater chance there is to have damage. I just want it to be over and have my truck back. Life’s been pretty sucky lately and this is just one more thing on top of everything else. I digress. Lol. Positive thoughts to a good outcome.

[DmaxMaverick]

Yes, positive thoughts. The unleaded wasn't in there long enough to cause damage by just being there. As long as it's gone and things are back to normal (whatever that was), there should be no lasting affects. The concern is more of the alcohol in the unleaded, these days. It's hell on Diesel fuel system internals in higher concentrations (like the ~10% in unleaded!!). I have no idea what issues may be caused by west coast summer additives, but it kills my small engine carburetors.

Another note:
Don't use a screwdriver on your plastic fuel bleeder screw. That alone can damage the screw, and more so as it ages. Use a nut driver, and it'll likely never be an issue. There are metal replacements available, but not off-the-shelf. Having a spare handy, of any type, is good practice. The thread is not common, and the part is not normally stocked anywhere that I'm aware of. The engine will not run without it, and not well if it leaks.

[LisaBrat]

That is also the current technicians concern with such a high concentration of unleaded still in the system. He mentioned the unleaded reeks havoc on the seals.

The screw driver was used by the first technician. The current tech used a nut driver to loosen and tighten the screw. I will definitely look into getting a more robust screw. Do you have any suggestions as far as manufacturers?

Thank you again for all of the advice and reassurance. I’ll be one happy woman when my truck is back in my drive way and I’m able to drive her.

[DmaxMaverick]

https://www.lubricationspecialist.com/gm-6.5td/6.6l-diesel/

http://www.kennedydiesel.com/categoryresults2.cfm?Category=3&SubCategory=155

High quality (I use one, keep another on hand). Both suppliers are The Diesel Page supporters.

[LisaBrat]

Awesome thank you, I’ll get a couple new bleed screws. Stupid question here, but if I remove the screw do I need to do anything else? Does replacing it mess with the vacuum in the system as far as having to do anything with the plunger? Hopefully next time I post something it will be good news

[DmaxMaverick]

I'd just leave it until you need to mess with it the next time (filter replacement). If you just replace the screw, you don't really have to do anything. I'd give it a few pumps for GP, but that's just me, and it's easy enough to do since you're right there. The retained vacuum is very little, and opening it while the engine isn't running isn't really affecting anything if it's a quick operation (a few minutes). Once the system is bled enough to allow the engine to continue to run, it will purge any remaining air. It's designed that way. If it starts then stalls, just pump it up until hard, and start again. It may take a little more cranking, but it will start. It may lope a little for up to 30 seconds, but once that's passed, it's all good.

[DieselDavy]

How did this work out? Any luck?
d

[LisaBrat]

Well time for a happy dance. I finally picked my truck up on Thursday, she’s running great. The shop dropped the tank, completely flushed all of the fuel lines and replaced the fuel filter. The tech took it on a test drive with the scanner hooked up so he could check the health of the fuel injectors, etc. He said everything was all on limits and running great. And the kicker is he charged me $164.00 less than the first shop and did way more. And it’s running!! He took pictures of everything to prove they didn’t drop the tank, he gave me a fuel sample to show the first shop how much unleaded was still in the tank. He definitely went above and beyond for me and my truck. Now I’m just waiting for the pictures so I can take everything to the first shop to try and get my money back. Fingers crossed I can get that money back.

Thank you for asking for an update.

[DmaxMaverick]

That's great!! Sounds like one shop gained a repeat customer. As far as it goes for the "first" shop, I suggest demanding a full refund (even if they offer a partial saying "we did something"). Other options are BBB reviews, and a formal complaint through the local Chamber of Commerce. It sounds like they took advantage of a "distraught female" customer and they sold you a bill of goods (yeah, that still happens). You can also look at their posted certifications, and contact those agencies (ASE, etc, usually posted near the entrance or on a wall somewhere). I have zero tolerance for this, and they should be held accountable for operating a disreputable (and possibly criminal) public business (theft is theft), and betrayal of a common trust. The competency and quality of a shop is one thing. Intentionally billing a customer for services not provided is entirely different. How far you go is up to you. Most folks just leave it behind them, making it much easier for them to do this to you, and possibly countless others. Thank you for allowing us to be a part of it.

[LisaBrat]

The second shop definitely has a new customer. Integrity and treating customers correctly are hard to come by these days. He even replaced the fuel filter and only charged me for the price of the filter, he didnt charge me anything for labor. He said its not about making money sometimes, its about taking care of customers. He doesnt like unethical shops. And yes I was distraught. I try not to be the female that gets taken advantage of. Im not stupid when it comes to vehicles, but if Im not sure of how something works, etc I educate myself. I will be going after the first shop. What they did was definitely unethical. They overcharged for work they did not perform and stated work they did not perform. I will give them the opportunity to make things right, but if they refuse to give me my money back I will pursue other options. The BBB, SAE, AAA and other acronyms will be notified just so this hopefully doesnt happen to someone else. Putting unleaded in my truck was my stupidity, but them not doing the work they said they performed couldve cost me some expensive repairs. I trusted them with my truck and they failed. I laughed at the service manager when she said she wanted to have someone pick up my truck so they can work on it again. It was a big pass for me. lol Hopefully the next post will be saying they refunded my money. :)

[JohnC]

Hopefully the next post will be saying they refunded my money. :)
Or you telling us you're scheduled to appear on "Judge Judy"...

[LisaBrat]

Hahahaha. Yes!!! Episode air date to be posted. Lol

[DieselDavy]

Thanks for updating us Lisa. I'm glad the old gal is working right again!
Go getem!
Dave

[cowboywildbill]

Let us know what the outcome is for getting a refund or satisfaction from the first shop. "Good Luck"

[LisaBrat]

Just a quick update on the status of trying to get a refund on the sh*tty repair job at Big Apple Automotive. I visited the shop on Friday to ask for a refund. The service manager made copies off all of my paperwork and documentation. I was making a day to day log of what was done, said, etc. She told me she would present the paperwork to the General Manager William. I just now received a call from the same service manger Joann. She stated that William is not going to give me my money back for the repairs. His reasoning was because they gave me the opportunity to bring my truck back to them to do the repairs again. Who in their right minds would put their vehicle back into the hands of an incompetent shop!! Its amazing to me that a shop can get away with this. especially after the technician lied about the work he performed. So if anyone has any suggestions on what my next course of action can be Im open to suggestions. Im pissed and fuming right now because they got away with this. And AAA recommends them to customers!

[richp]

Hi,

My next stop would be my insurance agent, to see what coverage you might have for a comprehensive claim. That discussion might also yield some advice from an insurer's point of view.

And right after that, I would do a face to face with the general manager, explaining that if he didn't do the right thing, you have your state's consumer fraud division in your GPS -- ready to go.

Good luck!

[DmaxMaverick]

Small claims court. You can sue for any losses/expenses due to their (in)actions, not just the amount of the bill. If you were billed fraudulently (sure sounds like it), the suit can be 3X that. Maybe ask the technician who finally helped you if he'd be interested in appearing as a witness (include his time/wage in your suit). Evidence and witnesses wins cases. Maybe get a "free" consult with a local attorney. If nothing else, you may get some directional advice that will be helpful. You can also use the dialog here as evidence of the chronology (the time-stamps are absolutely accurate, and access is public).

Also, file reports with AAA, BBB, (CCC, DDD, EIEIO), and the local Chamber of Commerce.

[JohnC]

Right! If AAA recommended them (is that why you went there?) make sure AAA knows you spent hundreds of dollars and got no benefit whatsoever. Some of the work charged for was not done and the problem was not resolved. Agreed, after the obvious fraud, you could not be expected to bring it back to them even if they were not going to charge you.

[More Power]

They said they dropped the tank and did a complete drain and purge of the fuel system. We knew this to be a lie. The tank was never dropped, the straps were untouched, bolts untouched and the dirt on the tank was untouched.

If I were in the boonies, and quite a bit of gasoline somehow found its way into the fuel tank, I'd likely not drop the tank to flush the system...

I'd attach a suitably sized fuel-rated hose to the bottom of the fuel filter drain fitting to allow draining the contaminated fuel into a large fuel container (one or more 5 gallon fuel jugs), then pressurize the fuel tank using no more than 5 to 10 psi using a regulated air supply till nothing but air was being expelled. Tightly wrap the air hose using an oily rag, and cram it into the fuel tank filler neck. You may need someone to hold it in.

Then, I'd pour in at least 10 gallons of clean diesel fuel into the tank, and then purge the fuel line till clean smelling diesel fuel was seen draining from the fuel filter drain.

Then, I'd change and bleed the new fuel filter. Crank to start. As a percentage, the tiny amount of gasoline remaining won't harm anything. Jim