rain, puddles, hard starting, wd-40, and starting fluid???

[Hubert]

97 truck runs fine ~ 106,000 miles no problems usually cranks easily.

I had a little hard starting episode after work yesterday and I have a few questions: My truck did not want to start. Note: strong batteries (less than 7 months old - 700 cranking amps plus each) it just spun and spun fast and did not do anything. So took key out waited for starter to cool a min then tried again - nothing. Waited a min tried again switched key to run waited for second cylcle of glow plugs then tried same thing ~ 10 sec on starter and it spinning like crazy and - nothing. Again after a starter cool down spins fast but didn't sound like it was combusting at all.

I took out airfilter and squirted a 1-2 sec burst of wd-40 in intake then tried again. It spun fast for ~ 10 sec nothing. Waited tried again nothing. I asked a friend to spray intake at box w/ wd-40 while I tried to crank - nothing. Not sure how much he sprayed though (probably not that hard).

I could hear clicking for glowplugs and the lift pump too. So I had my buddy turn the key to run and I cracked valve on top of filter - out came a stream of diesel so I shut it quick, therefore lift pump working right?

Wait another min plus and after 10 sec on starter it sputtered hit, missed, hit, missed, so I held it on crank and it finally started after a total of ~ 15 seconds on the starter. It sounded normal and ran fine. No cloud of exhaust no white, grey, or black smoke or nothing. No SES light nothing. Outside temp ~ 80F ish. Same power as always ran like a top. 15 min later I cut it off and it started right back up as usual same again later and this morning.

It usually cranks up within 2-5 seconds on starter.

I had drove it at lunch in heavy rain and thru some big puddles could something have gotten wet? It did not look wet under the hood.

I had this same kind of thing happen last fall just once. Now thinking back it might have rained then too. Same hard starting then finally cranked and did not repeat hard starting again.

Anything I should check or do different when and if this happens again.

When it doesn't start how exactly should I apply the WD-40 heavy spray in air intake at the box while cranking or a light intermittent spray or spritz? I know Ether based starting fluids are a no no with the glow plugs. How about other types. I have a 3 in 1 brand starting fluid that has no ether and it is a conditioner too. Its kind of oily and worked great for my lawn mower. It did not high rev the motor like an Ether based fluid. What about Ether based fluids if you wait for the glow plug cycle to finish and spritz it a little just to make it hit a little?

What about throttle position. Doesn't the computer do everthing on a 97 or should I also tap pedal a little or hold to floor (its hard not to do it anything).

I once cranked, ran, and bled the injectors on a N/A diesel tractor with a gas soaked rag over the intake. Is it safe to use a gas rag on a 6.5 The tractor knocked from preignition bad while doing this but ran fine after I bled injectors and took gas rag away.

Hubert
97 6.5 K2500 5 spd no mods except fender to airbox thingy off.

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
I have seen all different kinds of "snake oil" starting fluids and everyone has their favorite. Ether is a NO-NO :mad: Not just for the glow plugs but it can do some seriuose internal damage as well. What I have is a spray can that is pressurized with an air compressor and uses what ever fluid you put in it. I use diesel fuel with a good dose of cetane boost. I've never had to use it on my 1999 but it worked great on our farm and in the Marines with 6.2s.
It sounds like you have a water in the fuel problem. Next time it happens the first thing you should try is bleeding the fuel system and the water drain.
Have fun and good luck!
L8r
Conley

[DennisG01]

I had a similar experience. Would you say that after the first time it didn't start that it was 10 minutes until it started? In my case it turned out to be the ignition switch (not the key switch). The dealer told me that it has a built-in 10-minuite reset period. So when it is acting up and doesn't start, wait exactly 10 minutes and it will.

[Hubert]

Conley, How much of that diesel+cetane do you spray? And do you just spray it into the turbo inlet? That raises another question isn't cetane a measure of the resistance to preignition? I thought I would want something to enhance combustion just to get it started?

25+/- yrs ago I watched my uncle use a little ether starting fluid in an Osmobile delta 98 diesel (I guess a 6.2). It knocked real bad on the stuff but helped crank it. I remember him saying only spray a little spritz or it will preignite before TDC and vapor lock up the engine. But we were under a shade tree and I knew less then than I do now (which still aint much).

My truck ran great once stared and no light "water in fuel". I usually run an additive about every 5th tank with a water displacer and buy high volume truck stop diesel everytime. I have 1/2 tank had filled up over the weekend. It was fine before and has been fine since the little episode.

Dennis it may have been a total of 10 min not sure. I'll try to time it next occurance. But when it did crank it sputtered and caught real slow then ran fine as soon as it started combusting correctly. It was more like when its cold and the glow plugs didn't heat things up enough.

[Dvldog 8793]

I normally use FPPF cetane+8 mixed to max in 1 gallon. Your logic sounds better than mine. All I know is that it works for me. In the Marines the LAST thing I wanted was someone that didn't know ANYTHING with a can of starting fluid in their hands! We never had COLD starting problems but had many priming issues with un-needed fuel filter replacement. I would think that If you wanted something to use as a starting fluid then I would get something that had a good amount of lube in it also.
Conley

[DmaxMaverick]

Octane is the measure of a fuel's ability to resist combustion, usually pertaining to gasoline's anti-knock (pre-ignition) properties. Cetane is a fuel's measure of energy contained within it. Higher cetane, more efficient combustion. Cetane is a hydrocarbon component of Diesel fuel, and many other petroleum products. It is not measured in gasoline because it has little to no effect of the fuel's ability to combust or energy content in a spark engine. Higher cetane means more energy per volume of Diesel fuel. It also improves the fuel's ability burn more uniform. Higher cetane will usually increase economy and lessen the noise of Diesel engine combustion.

Ether should not be used in any engine that has glow plugs. Whether they are hot or not. It is the heat of the flash that will kill the plugs. They will often swell to the point that they don't come out nice. One time is all it takes in many cases. Our engines use pencil type plugs, which can complicate removal if they swell. Other engines (like Mercedes) use a wire-loop type plugs, which just burn the loop off. Platinum coil glow plugs aren't effected by ether, but they are rare as hen's teeth.

That Old's 98 had a 5.7L Diesel. Good engines.

The "Water in Fuel" light may not show up until you have a significant amount of water, and may not light up at all, even if there is only water in the fuel system. None of them are generally reliable. It doesn't sound like your problem is water in the fuel.

I would suggest looking for an air leak or a wet electrical connection. Those are lots of fun! Also check to make sure the fuel shut-off solenoid is getting juice when the ignition is on. The computer reset suggestion is a definate possibility, but rare. If it is the computer, it will usually be caused by a poor electrical connection, like a corroded/dirty connection that has been soaked with water. Pull 'em, clean 'em, and use a little dielectric grease before reconnecting.

Good luck.

[joed]

I had my 98 do that to me once. I parked it at a store and went back in to start it - it wouldn't, just kept cranking. I waited a few minutes and it started like nothing happened. It has only done that once (it had about 50K on it I now have 120K), so I've come to the conclusion it was some sort of electronic glitch. Seems like these glitches like to show up every now and then...

Joe.

[kowsoc]

Sounds like you have no power to your glow plugs or no fuel being injected. I would check that you have voltage at the glow plug leads....the clicking relay does not mean everything is fine. You may have bad contacts and the plugs may not be getting energized. If you have power then crack an injector line and crank to see if there is fuel injecting. If no fuel start trouble shooting fuel system. Since you say it will eventually start up with no smoke I would rule out fuel filter and/or air leaks. It would smoke and sputter with air in the system. I would also suspect the FSD.....mine failed to where it would not start hot or cold. Have you ever had stalling symtoms? You should not need starting fluids...the hot glow plugs should light the fuel upon contact. Keep posting...good luck. smile.gif

[Hubert]

OK thanks guys I'll post back when I know more but I hope it will take a while. Now its cleared up. It has cranked several times no problems and runs great. I have never had any stumbles or stalling. Just one similar hard starting episode last fall and it did not repeat. It was the same kind of one time glitch that makes you pucker and scratch your head.

I am just surprised that it did not knock, "diesel", and try to start a little on the WD-40. It was spinning fast enough and long enough to crank without any glow plugs (I think it was warm enough too 80F ish ambient temp). It did sound like it was not getting fuel or it was just a little too cool.

[rjwest]

I do did not have much confidence in the 6.5l.
Several updates have made me feel a little more
secure.
1. Remote FSD ( in easily accesable area ) with
a spare.

2. Fuel Pressure gage on dash. Easy to trouble shoot
, Air in fuel, leaks, inop fuel solenoid, lift pump.

3. spare fuel shut off solenoid.

4. oil & tran temp gages.

5. second lift pump and filter/water seperator

6. AND an inspeciton routine from all the items
learned from the diesel page forum, I do a pre
trip inspection, and when on a trip, a morning
check. ( also the WALLMART Inspection )
ie: when I leave walmarts, I look under truck
to see what is leaking/falling off....

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

2nd-hand info: I was told that WD-40 used to work well to start ornery diesels because the propellant used to be propane, NOT because the WD-40 oil would start the engine. I have NO idea if this is true or not.

That ether-in-the-Olds you described is one of the reasons why there were so many diesel Olds' with blown up engines. :eek: I have heard there were other problems with the original 5.7 too, but my neighbor (a mechanic) has replaced several 5.7's with the 2nd generation 5.7, & says he's never had one come back.

Blessings!

Brian Johnson, #5044

[Beedee]

My thoughs on starting fluid.
When I was but a young apprentice, I was haveing problems starting an engine, batteries were running down ect, so grabbed a can of starting fluid and shot it right down the induction tube (had the air cleaner out)while I got a buddy to hit the starter. I cant remember what kind of an engine it was, but it did have glow plugs, I guess what happened was as soon as the ether was drawn past the glow plug, it lit up and because the intake valve was open, and the speed that the ether flashed, it took the path of least resistance and came right back out the induction tube. :eek: :eek: :eek:
Needless to say, I had to change my underwear. :D
Now I won't us ether on a glow plug type engine.
Ether does have its place, on a cold day, on a very worn out Detroit Diesel, with a marginal set of batteries, why not.
But starting fluid on my chevy...NEVER ;)