Radiator: OEM or All Aluminum?

[arveetek]

It's time to for some maintenance and upgrades on my 1995 Tahoe. After 330,000 miles, I'm sure the radiator could stand to be replaced to help improve cooling before a long road trip this summer.

Which will offer the best cooling performance? Stock OEM-style aluminum/plastic combo, or aftermarket all-aluminum? Or is the only benefit a more rugged construction?

I found this 3-row all aluminum radiator online:

https://www.radiatorexpress.com/product.asp?part=1997+CHEVROLET+K3500++%2D+6%2E5+l iter+V8+RADIATOR+ALL+ALUMINUM+3+ROW+34+X+19+DIESEL&part_id=222482&aaia_id=1053425

I currently have the dual thermostat housing installed, but will also be finally installing the HO water pump.

Any other recommendations?

Casey

[Robyn]

VISTEON makes a stock OEM type replacement that is very good.

MANY of the replacement units have an EPOXIED core (Tubes are set in the head plates with epoxy) and these are crap.

The Visteon has aluminum brazed tubes with the crimped on plastic tanks.

These are as good as OEM.

Getting an all aluminum unit is not a bad deal.

[sctrailrider]

A all aluminum that has a thermal dispersant coating would be the best, I do have a thermal dispersant coating that doesn't require oven curing also.

The thermal dispersant provides 30% more cooling over bare aluminum or metal and that's been proven.

I have a few radiators on the way to me now for coating produced by Champion Cooling inc, https://www.championcooling.com/

We are in the process of coating & testing/proving the coatings, they offer a nice solid aluminum for a good price.

[More Power]

The OEM aluminum radiators with plastic end-tanks can be serviced. The end tanks can be removed, the core cleaned and then new end-tanks re-installed (the plastic gets brittle with time and heat). Scott Boelman, an early author here had this done on his 1994 6.5TD. There were several inches of sediment in the bottom of each tank.

Following a thorough flush, I recommend switching to Dex-Cool if your vehicle is pre-1996 (1996 and post got Dex). Dex is a lifetime coolant. The inside of a 16 year old cooling system still looked like new when I replaced the water pump in my 2001 Duramax.

Dr. Lee switched the green coolant to Dex in his 1984 and I switched my 6.5TD Power Project as well. Both had an all brass/copper/soldered radiator. The 6.5PP ran to +300K miles while we had it without a cooling system service - on the original water pump.

[JeepSJ]

2 fat rows cools better than 3 or 4 narrow rows.

Copper/brass cools better than aluminum, but only if fins are brazed to tubes and not soldered with lead.

Aluminum with 2 fat rows and brazed fins will outcool an old school 4 core brass/copper, but a 2 fat row brazed copper will outcool the aluminum.

Confused yet?

Get an aluminum with 2 fat rows that is brazed and not epoxied and don't worry about plastic or aluminum tanks and you will be happy.

[arveetek]

The OEM aluminum radiators with plastic end-tanks can be serviced. The end tanks can be removed, the core cleaned and then new end-tanks re-installed (the plastic gets brittle with time and heat). Scott Boelman, an early author here had this done on his 1994 6.5TD. There were several inches of sediment in the bottom of each tank.


I would normally go this route, as that is what I have done with previous vehicles, but I am not aware of any radiator shops left in my area. They have all closed up shop.

I've actually run Fleet Charge in my rigs for quite some time now. It's an over-the-road diesel coolant used in fleet vehicles. It's pink, for what it's worth.

Casey

[arveetek]

Get an aluminum with 2 fat rows that is brazed and not epoxied and don't worry about plastic or aluminum tanks and you will be happy.


This one and the one sctrailrider linked to are both 3-row aluminum:

https://www.radiatorexpress.com/product.asp?part=1997+CHEVROLET+K3500++%2D+6%2E5+l iter+V8+RADIATOR+ALL+ALUMINUM+3+ROW+34+X+19+DIESEL&part_id=222482&aaia_id=1053425

Thoughts on that particular product?

Casey

[Robyn]

The factory units were 2 fat rows, aluminum brazed tubes and plastic tanks.

As long as these OEM jobs are clean inside they cool fine.

IMHO they are a tad small in cooling capacity, as they start lagging once they get some high miles.

I used a Visteon in the Dahooooley the last rebuild and it cools fine.

Also noticed that the cooling ability has increased a bunch as we left the lower aluminum cover off after we put the engine back in... Not sure why that did not get bolted back on, but did notice it stays much cooler when its hot out.

Possibly the engine bay is staying cooler and allowing more air to vent in/out.

Also the kid dropped on a hood with the vented cowl bump and that could be allowing air to vent ?????

[sctrailrider]

I had Griffin Radiators build me "non production" unit last year for the 93 dually. It holds 3/4 gallon more than the stock brass unit, I also coated it with a thermal dispersant coating. It was pricey but it will last forever or until something pokes through the grill and will keep the p400 cool towing..

[arveetek]

I used a Visteon in the Dahooooley the last rebuild and it cools fine.


Where do you find this animal? I found you had mentioned Visteon in another thread, but I cannot find a supplier or even that this brand exists online.

Casey

[arveetek]

Where do you find this animal? I found you had mentioned Visteon in another thread, but I cannot find a supplier or even that this brand exists online.

Casey

A little more searching on Google finally came up with some info that Visteon (radiators) went bankrupt a few years ago. The current company that operates under the name of Visteon only deals with vehicle electronics.

Casey

[Robyn]

I bought mine at MACS Radiator in Portland Oregon.

[arveetek]

Well, lo and behold I located a shop nearby that is still in the radiator business! I spoke to them on the phone, and they said they can flush my OEM radiator with a special solution under medium pressure that cleans the inside tubes really well without having to disassemble the end tanks for $30. The higher pressure will also reveal any leaks that need to be repaired. They said to stay away from most aftermarket "OEM style" radiators since they are cheaply made.

Sounds like a good deal, but I'm a little concerned that the flush may cause a problem later on down the road due to the medium pressure they place on the radiator. Thoughts?

Casey

[sctrailrider]

I have used this method for years now in my tractors, trucks, every "old" radiator....

Buy 2-3 gallons of CLR from walmart or hardware store, drain the cooling system, fill with the CLR, run the motor for a day or so and drain & flush with clean water and refill with antifreeze... or remove the radiator, install the cap and lay flat with the hose connections up, fill with CLR and let sit, roll once in a while to move the fluid around, this will remove all the crud and not bother the metal...

I like doing this on the truck so everything is cleaned, block, heater core, etc and have never had any undue results from this..

[JohnC]

I have used this method for years now in my tractors, trucks, every "old" radiator....

Buy 2-3 gallons of CLR from walmart or hardware store, ...

Works for toilets that don't flush right, too! ;)

[Robyn]

SOME OEM replacements are JUNK plain and simple... THEY FIT THE RIG, and that's about it.

The Visteon brand is a top quality replacement unit.

The supplier I used also has their own inhouse custom shop that builds radiators for all manner of specialty stuff.

I asked about getting a custom unit and their folks told me that the Visteon was every bit as good as what they could build (Longevity and cooling ability) as what they could toss together.

[a5150nut]

Instant tea works to clean a radiator too. Just don't use pre sweetened.

[john8662]

Just a followup on the Visteon comments. I bought one of their radiators for a 6.2L application many years ago, around 8 or more now and it was excellent quality. But, because the Asian market has offered so many replacements the radiators mfg's have had to close doors, even really nice and equipped ones.

Visteon made a great product, which is probably why they aren't producing them any more. Present consumers are predominantly interested in the initial dollar and not the long term outcome.

I am sold on aluminum radiators though (would never go back to brass/copper radiator), and alum core with plastic tanks are just fine as they are serviceable later, all welded units, not so much.

J

[More Power]

Just a followup on the Visteon comments. I bought one of their radiators for a 6.2L application many years ago, around 8 or more now and it was excellent quality. But, because the Asian market has offered so many replacements the radiators mfg's have had to close doors, even really nice and equipped ones.

Visteon made a great product, which is probably why they aren't producing them any more. Present consumers are predominantly interested in the initial dollar and not the long term outcome.

I am sold on aluminum radiators though (would never go back to brass/copper radiator), and alum core with plastic tanks are just fine as they are serviceable later, all welded units, not so much.

J

All good info... Yes, low buck usually gets the nod for consumers these days, which can be unfortunate. Failing access to quality aftermarket products can usually be overcome by seeking either good used/salvage or new OEM.

After thinking about it, I might be inclined to modify a 1990s rad core support to work with the earlier trucks to make it possible to use the newer aluminum radiators and fan shrouds. Jim

[arveetek]

Thanks for all the info folks! I pulled the radiator out, and it appeared to be the original unit; it had a 1995 date code on a sticker. It was actually in really great shape, so I just ended up cleaning it out with radiator flush myself.

I installed a new HO water pump and dual 180* T/STATs from Kennedy, and also replaced the timing chain and harmonic balancer while I was at it. I also replaced every single hose (man, I never realized how many hoses are in the coolant system on these rigs!!).

I towed my camper to Branson down highway 65 a couple of weeks ago, and there are some pretty decent grades on that road. I was able to maintain between 210 to 220 on the steepest grades; in fact, I had to back out of the throttle a bit due to high EGT's instead of high ECT's this time. She seems to maintain better temp control than before.

Driving around empty, temps stay rock solid at or just above 180*, and she no longer heats up when sitting idling with the A/C on for long periods of time. Used to, on a really hot day, the ECT would continue to climb in this situation.

We are heading to Yellowstone next week, so I'm pretty confident I should have a pretty reliable tow rig at this point.


Here is my rig:



https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1742/42727339822_75ddd5c192_h.jpg




Casey

[More Power]

Nice looking rig Casey. Thanks for sharing. Makes me want to get my own 2-door finished... Jim

[arveetek]

Well, now I'm wishing that I had purchased an all-aluminum radiator! I am currently broke down in Buffalo, Wyoming. Climbing Highway 16 West out of town on a 4 mile 7% grade, and was just cresting the top when the plastic tank on the driver's side blew apart! Now there's a gaping hole in the tank. She was running pretty warm, but not overheating. We got towed back to the RV park we had just checked out of (only made it about 15 miles down the road), and I'm sitting here searching for a replacement radiator. So far the engine starts and sounds normally, so crossing my fingers no damage was done with the sudden loss of coolant.

Anybody in the Buffalo, Wyoming region that has a good radiator laying around? :D

Casey

[JeepSJ]

Good thing is that you are in a place where you can safely stay. Looks like there is a Napa, Car Quest, and OReilly auto parts in town. There is also an auto salvage place down off I90/204. I'd think that any of the parts places could have you a replacement within a day or so.

[sctrailrider]

This manufacture has them and they are high quality, I just applied a thermal dispersant coating on one they are having tested, the radiator is a good unit... and they will overnight it if needed...



https://www.championcooling.com/

[DmaxMaverick]

If the core is good, have it serviced and (both) tanks replaced at a local radiator shop. Same day service in most cases, at a fraction of the cost of new. It should last another 20+ years.

[arveetek]

Thanks, guys. Yes, there are a lot worse places to break down; thankfully we were only 15 miles up the road from the campground; thankfully we had cell service where we broke down; thankfully a fellow 6.5L owner happened by at the just the moment the radiator blew and helped us get off the road and get in contact with a wonderful local towing company; thankfully my daddy taught me how to fix things and I get my family back on the road with a minimum of cost and down-time.

Yes, there are three auto supplies in town, and they can have a standard Murray radiator next day. But, I hate to put a questionable quality aftermarket unit in. I checked for a local radiator shop, but there is none close by. I had my eye on a Champion radiator already, so I called their distributor in California (Ledfoot Racing), and they are overnighting a new all-aluminum radiator to the RV park we are staying at. The local O'reilly's sent their delivery truck out with a few gallons of coolant, so I should be able to get everything back up and running tomorrow.

I started the engine up after she had cooled off completely, and she starts, runs, and sounds completely normal. Crossing my fingers there won't be any long-term damage.

Thanks again!

Casey

[DieselDavy]

Good Luck Casey,
You probably aught to take a few moments and thank the Lord for all the breaks that kept you and your family safe through all of this!
We all hope the rest of your trip goes a lot better!
Keep us posted!
Dave

[trbankii]

After the plastic side tank in my '93 blew apart - not towing, not pushing it - I picked up one of these: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sgt-cu1364

Copper radiator with metal side tanks. I only have a few thousand miles on it, so we'll have to see how it does over time.

RockAuto has it a bit cheaper: https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/chevrolet,1993,k2500+pickup,6.5l+v8+diesel+turboch arged,1052514,cooling+system,radiator,2172

[arveetek]

Good Luck Casey,
You probably aught to take a few moments and thank the Lord for all the breaks that kept you and your family safe through all of this!
We all hope the rest of your trip goes a lot better!
Keep us posted!
Dave

Amen! We have done lots of praying on this trip, and the good Lord has watched over us for sure.

I got the old radiator out last night, and now we're just chillin' waiting on the FedEx truck to show up.

Casey

[a5150nut]

Well while your chilling, get out the lawn chairs and watch the next guy trying to back into a space.

Glad to hear your safe. Just think of the story you now have to tell.

[arveetek]

The FedEx truck never came today; I think they dropped the ball and the tracking info shows the package sat in the Memphis hub for 12 hours before it started moving again. Hopefully it gets here early tomorrow.

The kids are having fun swimming in the pool here at the campground and riding their bikes; they've been making friends with other campers' kids; we've met some really nice folks at the nightly ice cream social at the park office; the temps are hovering in the upper 70's to low 80's; so it definitely could be worse. I know we'll have great stories to tell later on; just doesn't feel so great right now.

Casey

[JeepSJ]

The FedEx truck never came today; I think they dropped the ball and the tracking info shows the package sat in the Memphis hub for 12 hours before it started moving again. Hopefully it gets here early tomorrow.

The kids are having fun swimming in the pool here at the campground and riding their bikes; they've been making friends with other campers' kids; we've met some really nice folks at the nightly ice cream social at the park office; the temps are hovering in the upper 70's to low 80's; so it definitely could be worse. I know we'll have great stories to tell later on; just doesn't feel so great right now.

Casey

As long as you have nowhere to be (such as work), enjoy the down time and relax.

[arveetek]

As long as you have nowhere to be (such as work), enjoy the down time and relax.

You're right. In fact, I was able to relax by the pool and even got a nap in today! So it wasn't all bad. My 8 year old boy doesn't even want to leave this campground now!

FedEx finally showed up, so I got the new radiator and installed it this afternoon! Everything seems to be working fine and normal. Will head back towards Rapid City tomorrow to spend a few days before heading home after that.

The Champion radiator seems like a really nice quality product. On the plus side, Ledfoot Racing plays contemporary Christian music when you're on hold, and they have Bible verses on their packaging. I feel pretty good about supporting that company!

I'll post pictures when I get a chance.

Casey.

[sctrailrider]

Glad it worked out for you !!!


The radiator they sent me was the same one you received, they are in the process of testing the thermal dispersant coating I applied, hopefully I will be doing more work for them, also I will have them on my web site in the coated version with test data of the improved thermal dissipating quality's also..

[arveetek]

Glad it worked out for you !!!


The radiator they sent me was the same one you received, they are in the process of testing the thermal dispersant coating I applied, hopefully I will be doing more work for them, also I will have them on my web site in the coated version with test data of the improved thermal dissipating quality's also..

Cool! (No pun intended) :D

So far I'm pretty pleased with the new radiator. We are almost back home to Missouri from Wyoming. Left Buffalo, WY on Friday morning, spent a few nights in Rapid City, SD, and started heading home Monday morning. Stopped overnight at St Joseph, MO and should be home by lunch time tomorrow. The new radiator has allowed the engine to run cooler, mostly because now the engine fan kicks on even sooner. I am guessing that the air flow through the radiator is better, causing the fan to heat up quicker and kick on? I'm not sure why, but now the ECT seems to be more constant and a few degrees cooler, with the fan coming on and off more than before. Today the fan was on most of the day since we were facing a head wind and the engine was working hard all day just maintaining highway speeds, but the temp stayed a constant 210 except for a few short hill climbs that caused the temps to rise just a bit above that, but then quickly came back down. Now I have to keep an eye on EGT's when climbing grades more than watching the ECT.

Casey

[arveetek]

As promised, here are some pictures of the radiator damage and the new radiator.



Here's what I discovered when I heard a loud "pop" followed by a ton of steam:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/839/28440461647_50b6ca53af_c.jpg



After I pulled the radiator out:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/834/29439954318_b80bd1b019_h.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1768/43309974251_cfb64d00ba_h.jpg



And the new Champion all-aluminum radiator:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1769/28440460667_185edfeeaa_h.jpg



When installing the new radiator, I was frightened for a moment since the transmission cooler lines didn't fit; it took me a moment to realize that Champion had supplied adapters and I just needed to remove the adapters, then the lines fit perfectly. The new radiator was slightly shorter than the original, so I cut some rubber spacers to make sure it didn't flop around and was clamped in place securely. Also, the overflow inlet/outlet that is on the top passenger side was one size smaller than the original unit, so I needed to adapt it up to the rubber hose that comes from the coolant reservoir.

Casey

[DieselDavy]

That looks real nice Casey. Looks like you won't have to do that again!
Thanks for the pics and I'm glad you got home alright!
Dave

[arveetek]

That looks real nice Casey. Looks like you won't have to do that again!
Dave

That's what I'm thinking! Something else is going to blow long before the radiator gives out.

Casey

[JeepSJ]

That is pretty wild. That is a huge section that blew out.