Just died and won't start

[Cold water]

Hello everyone,
New to the forum.
My truck decided to die on me yesterday. I started it up and let it warm up for about 5 minutes. I pulled out of my driveway and went about 100 yards up my street and then she just idled down and died. I then tried to restart and all she did was crank. So I let her roll back down the street to a safe area to park.
I replaced the ignition switch a few weeks ago and the truck seemed to be just fine. The fuel filter was replaced about 4000 miles ago with all of the fuel lines. I tried bleeding the fuel system at the fuel head three times. Is the pump supposed to require more pressure and hold this pressure after you pump it up? It is definitely much looser after I tried cranking the engine. I also noticed that the red battery image on the top right side of the dash is not lit. I also serviced the batteries two weeks ago. I drove the truck last Sunday and The previous Wednesday. Any thoughts or comments will ne greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[rapidoxidationman]

Can you pull the codes from the OBD-II diagnostics port? Any cheap code reader will do...

[Cold water]

Don't own one. Guess I need to get one.

[Cold water]

OK, just got back with a scanner. Needed to by one anyway.
Two codes, both refer to the trans. P0843 & P0875. I'm guessing they are probably left over from when the trans was serviced a few months ago.

[DmaxMaverick]

Welcome aboard!

Disregard the DTC's you posted. Both are transmission pressure faults, likely due to the service. In any case, they will not cause a running engine to stop, or prevent a start.

Your fuel priming function sounds normal. Pumping the primer will/should harden after pumping, but will relieve once the engine is cranked (started or not). It will not stay hard to pump if the engine is cranked any significant amount. Once it has lost prime, it will NOT self-prime, and it will stay that way until you get a successful start. If you are pumping the primer a "few" times, it may not be enough. Some of them require as little as 10-25 pumps, while others can require 100 or more. Make sure you are fully priming. The primer pump should become nearly impossible to fully depress before it is "complete".

You described "idled down and died". This sounds like a fuel supply issue (electric/electronic issues are almost always on/off, with no transition between them), and there will normally be no DTC to indicate a problem. Either the fuel system is blocked, or air is leaking in. I suggest you begin by checking the simple things first.

Fuel filter. They can, after a little time of running (especially with significant climate/season changes and temp cycles), loosen or leak at either of the seals (large housing seal at the top, smaller water sensor seal at the bottom). It is simple to R/R the filter. If it's new (like 4K or less), remove and reseat it. The plastic filters are more prone to issues and require greater care to ensure they are properly sealed (and stay that way).

Fuel lines. If they have been recently replaced, any/all connections are suspect. Also check the entire route to make sure a new line isn't pinched or kinked (they often do not get replaced to the exact previous location). Check all the connections and clamps.

[DmaxMaverick]

I'll add.....

The FIRST thing to do with any drivability problem is to remove any electronic power devices (such as Edge) or programming, if possible. Often, they can cause or contribute to issues, and can hinder efforts to correct some issues. So, if you haven't done that, do that.

[Yukon6.2]

Just tossing this out there...
When was the last fill up? And was it Diesel?
Diesels will just die when they get to high concentration of gas in the diesel

[Cold water]

Hi everyone,
I appreciate the advice so far. I cannot see any leaks under the truck or in the vicinity of the fuel lines. I returned the truck to stock by removing the Edge programmer. I just finished replacing the complete fuel head assy. Yes this included a new filter. I also added the spacer and replaced the two short rubber lines since they were looking a little dry rotted and cracked(WIWIT). I did this from the top side so I had to remove the inter cooler piping for ease of access. When I was finished I primed the system multiple times and I am pretty sure I removed all of the air from the system. Yes, the truck has fuel in it and no it does not have any gas in it except for the 1.5 gallons of gas/oil mix in the bed for the chain saw.

I am still perplexed with the old girl. Once I prime the system how long will it hold pressure if I do not turn the key and try to start it? Why has the battery idiot light also suddenly quit working(same day)? How can I test the glow plugs to make sure they are turning on? Yes, the wait light comes on and goes off after a few seconds. It was in the sixties today.

I did find something interesting today. I did not think this truck had a block heater. GM states that these trucks do not need to be plugged in over 0 degrees. When I removed the inter cooler pipe I found a cable with a three prong 110 volt end on it. I bought the truck from my cousin in '09, who bought it new in Utah.

Again, I really want to thank everyone that has responded and those that hopefully will respond!

[DmaxMaverick]

OK. What was the result? No start? Start w/ rough running? Start then stall?


Hi everyone,
I appreciate the advice so far. I cannot see any leaks under the truck or in the vicinity of the fuel lines. I returned the truck to stock by removing the Edge programmer. I just finished replacing the complete fuel head assy. Yes this included a new filter. I also added the spacer and replaced the two short rubber lines since they were looking a little dry rotted and cracked(WIWIT). I did this from the top side so I had to remove the inter cooler piping for ease of access. When I was finished I primed the system multiple times and I am pretty sure I removed all of the air from the system.

Did you open the top bleeder to let the air escape? If not, it will not remove all the air.


Yes, the truck has fuel in it and no it does not have any gas in it except for the 1.5 gallons of gas/oil mix in the bed for the chain saw.

This is an acceptable location for gasoline in your Diesel vehicle.


I am still perplexed with the old girl. Once I prime the system how long will it hold pressure if I do not turn the key and try to start it?

It may or may not "hold" pressure. It only needs to keep fuel in the lines. As long as fuel doesn't leak out, and air doesn't leak in, it's OK.


Why has the battery idiot light also suddenly quit working(same day)?

What means "quit working"? The idiot light should come on during a power-on cycle, but go out once started (unless there is an issue with the charging system). If it doesn't work this way, there's an issue with the electrical system, IPC, PCM, or BCM.


How can I test the glow plugs to make sure they are turning on? Yes, the wait light comes on and goes off after a few seconds. It was in the sixties today.

Sounds like the GP controller is working fine. Don't worry if the GP's are actually getting power or not. They are not needed for a "normal" (successful) start. I've tested (GP's disconnected) down to -10F. Rough start, but it did. If they GP's are not working perfectly, it will trigger the SES and store related codes. Same for the intake heater.


I did find something interesting today. I did not think this truck had a block heater. GM states that these trucks do not need to be plugged in over 0 degrees. When I removed the inter cooler pipe I found a cable with a three prong 110 volt end on it. I bought the truck from my cousin in '09, who bought it new in Utah.

All GM Diesel light trucks (including Duramax, but maybe not late mini-trucks) have a block heater from the factory. All of them.


Again, I really want to thank everyone that has responded and those that hopefully will respond!

You're welcome. I hope the outcome improves.

[Cold water]

[QUOTE=DmaxMaverick;322450]OK. What was the result? No start? Start w/ rough running? Start then stall?

No start.

Did you open the top bleeder to let the air escape? If not, it will not remove all the air.

Yes I did.

This is an acceptable location for gasoline in your Diesel vehicle.

I thought so:)


What means "quit working"? The idiot light should come on during a power-on cycle, but go out once started (unless there is an issue with the charging system). If it doesn't work this way, there's an issue with the electrical system, IPC, PCM, or BCM.

Stopped coming on at all! This is starting to sound like it is going to get much more expensive and will be heading down the road on a tow truck.


All GM Diesel light trucks (including Duramax, but maybe not late mini-trucks) have a block heater from the factory. All of them.

Thanks for the info, I was not aware of that.

[DmaxMaverick]

It doesn't have to get too expensive. You will however, need to get your hands on a capable scanner (or pay a shop or dealer) to actually see what's (not) going on during a start attempt. While cranking to start, several things have to happen (assuming the engine is otherwise healthy and able to provide correct timing and compression). Primarily, the high pressure fuel system must meet minimum pressure, and the injector driver must command injector events.

Something as simple as a HP regulator or purge valve failure (for a variety of reasons) will prevent sufficient pressure to initialize an injector event. This can be easily seen with many/most scanners, including the simple, inexpensive "phone app" adapters. Connecting a scanner can also indicate the function of the computers. Missing values that should be present may indicate harness damage or failed computer modules. I'd start with checking the harness connections at the PCM and TCM, which are the easiest to access, and follow the harnesses checking for damage. A simple rodent intrusion could cause everything you've seen, which should be evident by their habits (nesting) and damage they do. I live in the sticks, and have visited this issue on several vehicles over the years, including a 2000 Impala that burned itself to the ground in my driveway, likely caused by rodent damage.

[Yukon6.2]

Seeing you have the block heater found...
Try plugging it in for a couple of hours and then try starting it.
Are you getting any smoke from the exhaust when you try to start it?

[Cold water]

O.K., will look at those options. Just sent a text to my neighbor who is a 25 year Nissan mechanic whom has a real scanner.

Just a thought. I converted my headlights to HID back in November. In February I had a 1900 mile trip in one week. On the way home I hit the high beams and my programmer reset itself (powered off then back on). Could this have been a warning?

I live in the sticks also. Thank God I have yet to have one burn to the ground.

[DmaxMaverick]

Seeing you have the block heater found...
Try plugging it in for a couple of hours and then try starting it.
Are you getting any smoke from the exhaust when you try to start it?

This ain't your grandpa's GM Diesel. The GP's (and intake heater) are used to satisfy the EPA and smooth a start when it's really cold (well below freezing). The engine will start with the GP's disabled down to any reasonable cold start. Rough starts don't show up until around 10F and below, and even then, it will start without much hesitation (it takes a few seconds to smooth out, though). The high pressure fuel injection (north of 4K PSI during a cold start) eliminates the requirement for functional use of the GP's. I haven't used the GP's for cold starts in over 10 years.

If it isn't starting, or trying to start, it isn't getting fuel.

If it's getting fuel and not firing, it WILL smoke, just like grandad's old oil burner.

[DmaxMaverick]

O.K., will look at those options. Just sent a text to my neighbor who is a 25 year Nissan mechanic whom has a real scanner.

Just a thought. I converted my headlights to HID back in November. In February I had a 1900 mile trip in one week. On the way home I hit the high beams and my programmer reset itself (powered off then back on). Could this have been a warning?

I live in the sticks also. Thank God I have yet to have one burn to the ground.

That could certainly have some contribution to a problem. Still, a scanner will help get you looking in the right direction. If the Edge module reset, there's something amiss with the electrical system, or the PCM or its harness. Could be a lost ground, somewhere.

[Cold water]

Roger that! Neighbor is working today and said he could come by in the morning.

[Cold water]

O.K., so the neighbor came by with the scanner he uses at his house not the one he uses at work. Bigger and nicer looking than the one I have, but almost as useless.

He said I should open up the fuse panel under the hood on the drivers side and check for corrosion since the local free loading mice decided to use it as a restroom and dining hall. I pulled every fuse and checked them. I then pulled it apart from the underside looking for corrosion. Some of those connector were a bugger getting undone. The underside looked almost as good as the day it was installed. I also checked the wiring harness' for any wear. None was found.

Before he came over I pulled the HID headlights out and disconnected them, no change. I also pulled the fuse for the auxiliary LED back lights I installed back in November and still no change.

I replaced the ignition switch about a month ago for the "Range Shift Inhibited" message. Is it possible that I did not do this correctly or that it went bad already?

[DmaxMaverick]

Once you have rodent evidence, all bets are off. They go where you won't/can't see. The only option is to keep looking. Good luck with that!

"Shift Range Inhibited" is almost always the NSBU switch (located on the tranny where the shift cable connects), or the connector. If your new ign. switch fixed that, it would be in the more rare category (not that ign. switches don't fail on occasion). Even if that were in play, right now, it won't cause the problem you having, right now.

If damage was done by a modified electrical system (if that happened), disconnecting them won't likely "fix" anything. Damage done is damage done, and won't change unless and until repaired. Stray voltage and errant grounds have caused more headaches than just about anything, especially with these late model mobile super computers.

Were you able to identify any DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes, or 'codes', for short)? It's an essential piece of your puzzle, at this point. Still, you really need a capable scanner to know what's going on that you can't see. At the very least, set yourself up with an ELM327 adapter (cheap) and pair it with a smart phone or tablet (download the Torque Pro app, also cheap). It will allow you to see the most essential codes and values you need right now. Also, if you have a friend with a Predator programmer (2003+), it will show you much the same (it doesn't have to be married to a vehicle to see passive values, only for uploading tunes).

[Cold water]

UPDATE!!!
My apologies for not getting back sooner. Life, work, etc., etc.
O.K., So I scheduled an appointment with the local Chevy dealer on recommendations for a couple of shops in the area. Apparently we do not have a "true diesel" shop in the area anymore. The truck was picked up via flatbed on Thursday night and taken to the dealership. I called them Friday morning to let them know everything I had already done. That evening I received a call from the service writer telling me that all of the electronics are in good working order and my problem seems to be the fuel pressure regulator. It is either bad or clogged. They are not 100% sure if this in the only problem since they have yet to get the truck to fire up. They do know that the fuel is getting to the engine but then it returns to the tank. I will know more on Tuesday when they get the part in. I am hoping that is the problem since the estimate is just under $1100.00.

I truly have enjoyed this truck since buying it in Oct. of '09. Using it for everything from hauling a 1995 Weekender by Skyline (really large truck camper), firewood, towing a couple of vehicles and the occasional dump trailer (neighbor used to have one) to get mulch for the wife and neighbor. But, this past year has been expensive. Brake hard lines (THANK YOU GM you almost killed me and possibly someone else) fuel lines, radiator and upper and lower hoses. Let us not forget about the injectors five years ago. Yes, I know the truck is 15 years old.

Anyway, sorry for the mini rant. I will keep you up to speed as soon as I can.

[Cold water]

Hey everyone,
Well my day just got dumped on. On Friday they told me that they thought it was the fuel regulator($1100.00). So they replaced that today(it had to be ordered). Today they are telling me that the fuel injector pump(CP3) has something wrong with it. The truck will idle but as soon as you put a load on it it dies. So now we are at an additional $3000.00. Since this is not in my budget I told them to push the truck outside and I will have it towed off of their lot.
NOT what I needed to hear!!!

[DmaxMaverick]

It sounds like they aren't performing proper diagnosis, but throwing parts at it (all too common these days). Possibly stringing you along to run up the bill (less common, but still happens). $1100 for the FPR seems quite steep, including diagnostics. I suggest getting another local dealer involved, preferably one claiming extensive Duramax experience. A local Diesel jobber may do you better. Ask around.

[Cold water]

Hey DmaxMaverick,
Yeah, I lost my patience there for a minute. I agree that they are trying to run the bill up or something. I contacted a shop that was recommended to me by a neighbor that goes to church with the wife. Everything he owns is a diesel except for his log splitter and chain saw.I tried them before I sent it to the dealership but did not get a response back until the day it was supposed to be at the dealership. Unfortunately he was out of town that day. This shop only works on diesels and their hourly rates are about $30.00 less than the dealership. He has estimated the replacement at less than half of the dealers guess! Yes, that includes parts. He said while the truck was in his care and waiting for the CP3 to get there he would check it out himself.

Yeah, I run into guys that just throw parts at problems all the time in my industry. We call them "shotgun specialists". When I work on a machine I always look for the simplest thing first if the error codes and books are not helping.

I really wish I had a garage and a paved driveway!!!

[Cold water]

Hello everyone,
Sorry it has been a while. Popped a tendon in my lower back.

O.K., so the new/refurbished CP3 has been installed and the truck is running as good or better than it was before. New CP3, both thermostats, and an oil change. $1400.00. As you can see from the pictures, it sheared a shaft. He said he had never seen one do this before. Just my luck. They also cleaned and painted the oil filler neck and the water pipe that runs across the top of the engine. I picked the truck up last Friday evening and drove it home and it sat in my driveway until yesterday when I made a trash/recycling run. Truck fires right up and everything seems to be O.K.

As far as the battery indicator not working, well it decided to come back on when the rest of my dash came back to life. Time to order a new dash assembly.

I talked with the shop owner about a FASS system and one is on it's way as I type.

I thank each of you for discussing this with me. I have been working on my gas vehicles for 40 years but this is my first real issue with a diesel. I guess I must learn more about them.

[DmaxMaverick]

Thanks for the update!

Never seen that before, either. The pump must have been seizing early on, as the dealer was able to start and run it (albeit, not well), then seized and broke the shaft. The visible damage is not on the fuel side, so maybe you'll get lucky with no injector contamination. I suggest dropping the sump to make sure you get all the metal pieces (shaft, seal, etc.) out of it you can.