Acquired a non-running 6.5 TD

[bford]

Hey guys,

I just got myself a 95' 6.5TD truck with 186,000 miles which does not currently run. Previous owner told me that it was running before and it developed a noise in the driver side valve cover area...he described it like its kinda something hitting the top of the valve cover or something like that. He said that once that started, he pretty much parked the truck and it has sat for about 6 months. I have not tried cranking it as the batteries were pretty much dead.

I have not had the chance to take a closer look and start diagnosing it. I was hoping that I could get some guidance on what to check and look for with these engines/trucks since this is actually my first diesel truck.

I've read from here that there's a plastic retainer or whatever it was called that usually breaks and could cause the noise.

I would like to get this truck back up and working and put it to back to work:)

Thanks in advance guys.

BG

[Robyn]

Welcome to TDP

Get the valve cover off and see whats up in there.

This requires removing the intake manifold and then the injector lines from the needed side.

Keep the lines married in the pairs they are now.

Mark the line pairs as to which cylinders they go to.

Make a map of the injector pump where the lines fasten on and then the task of getting things back on will be very easy.

A couple of the lines can be mixed up and still fit, so marking things is a good way to go.

Wipe off the intake ports on the heads with something like Brakleen and then cover with gorilla tape to keep any junk out.

DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO COVER WITH RAGS.

A good friend did that and forgot, then started the engine and sucked a rag inside ruining a new build..

The VC's are sealed with high temp silicone only and no gaskets are used.

Careful use of a thin putty knife slid between the cover and the head flange and some light persuasion will get the cover off.

When reinstalling the covers...be sure the cover flange is flat and straight

A bit of work with a small hammer and an piece of flat steel will suffice to make the covers like new.

Clean the head flange well to remove all the old goop.

Add new high temp black silicone to the cover channel and replace...
Fasten the bolts LIGHTLY (BARELY SNUG) at first then let the goop set up over night, and then torque to spec. (A BIT MORE THAN SNUG WITH A 3/8 ratchet)

Now...the issue at hand.

The rockers are held in alignment on the shaft with plastic buttons that look a lot like whats used on car door panels (Sort of) with a large button head and a barbed shank that is driven into the shaft...

BEWARE
The pushrods MUST BE kept in the orientation they are in from the factory..

The top of the rods must stay facing up.

Just be sure to either mark them or see if the original marks are still there.

Factory marks were a paint ring near the top or the top ball was copper colored.

If nothing obvious then just pull each rod, wipe with brakleen, let dry and hit with some spray paint near the top.

The top ball is hardened and the bottom one (lifter end) is not.

Reversing will lead to premature failure.

Examine the rockers and pushrods as well as the buttons.

Before tearing into the beast you might want to charge the batteries and get it started to see what the noise is all about.

JUST AN FYI
A crowfoot of the proper size helps in getting the lines off the Injector pump.

Good luck

[JohnC]

A bad injector can make an awful knocking sound. I'd get it running and give a listen. Then, loosen the fuel line nuts on the injectors, one at a time, just enough to relieve the pressure. If you hit the bad one the knock will go away.

(Oh, she types a lot faster than I do...)

[bford]

Thank you guys for the quick response and insight.

Well, I got the chance to do some preliminary tests. I got the battery fully charged and tested - it test good. So I hooked it back on the truck and tried cranking it AND nothing....not even a click from the starter solenoid.

I hear a click when the glow plugs turn on and turn off (least a relay sound when the "do not start" dash light would turn on and off)

Anyway, I traced the positive wire that goes to the starter and noticed that the terminal it bolts on to is moving around, the post is broken kinda on the starter is what it is. I did not get the chance to test to see if I am getting power to the signal wire that goes to the solenoid when we try to turn the key to "start/crank" as I did not have a multi-meter with me.

Needless to say, I am starting on a bad foot with this truck already and I definitely need to work on a few more things before I even get the chance to see if it would fire up and then that's when I could check what kinda horrible sound it's making (as the prev owner described - maybe that's the only truth that he said).

Hopefully I can get you guys to guide me through and get this truck fired up and running so I may put this beast to work.

I plan on checking the starter solenoid signal wire first to see if I get 12v when cranking. If so, then I will then have to pull the starter to and get it tested/replaced. (Any tips/steps/insight would be appreciated). Also I'm already looking online for a starter just in case I have to replace it, and I'm not sure if all the 95' 6.5TD starters are the same? I don't think they're the same since it depends on the transmission if its manual or auto correct? (Least that's how they are in gas engines that I've worked on)

On another note, pulled the intake boot that sits between the air filter and the turbo. I found it to be oily to my liking but the turbo shaft actually spins well, and has no play at all (back and forth and side to side - so I guess that's good).

Thanks guys.

[JeepSJ]

All 6.5 starters are the same. When installing a new one make sure you reinstall the brace that fits on the forward end of the starter - without that brace, they tend to shear the mounting bolts.

[More Power]

A bad injector can make an awful knocking sound. I'd get it running and give a listen. Then, loosen the fuel line nuts on the injectors, one at a time, just enough to relieve the pressure. If you hit the bad one the knock will go away.

(Oh, she types a lot faster than I do...)

I was thinking this very same thing...

[Kennedy]

Did you say battery or batteries?

There are two on a 6.5.

[bford]

All 6.5 starters are the same. When installing a new one make sure you reinstall the brace that fits on the forward end of the starter - without that brace, they tend to shear the mounting bolts.

Thanks for that tip. I'll keep that in mind when I go buy a new starter for it.

PS: I'm looking at getting this starter: BOSCH SR8574N - rockauto says it fits a 95' K2500 6.5TD P/U...So I just would like to confirm that this would be a good fit for my truck.


Did you say battery or batteries?

There are two on a 6.5.

Sorry I meant to say batteries :). I got both batteries charged up and tested and they both tested good.

The current issue right now is when I try to crank it, it does nothing. No clicks no nothing. I am pressing on the clutch as well since I know there's a neutral safety switch on there that has to be pressed in so that the engine cranks. Is there a starter solenoid relay on the fuse box on these trucks? Or does the signal wire directly go straight from the key to the neutral safety and then to the starter solenoid signal post on the starter?

[a5150nut]

Manual trans there is no neutral safety switch. But there is a switch similar to a brake light switch on the clutch pedal.

Starter switches are a common wear problem and is located on lower steering column in cab.

If you have to do anything with the slave cylinder line remove the pins and get it out completely. Small roll pin at each end holds it into the cylinders. Any fudging to move for clearance will end up cracking either the master or the slave cylinders. I know, drove across San Jose in rush hour traffic with no clutch. But I never used one much to shift anyways.

And if your starter is bad, I would remove it and take to a local rebuilder if you have one available. DONT LEAVE THE NOSE BRACE OFF.

And one more thing, Welcome to TDP!

[Robyn]

The easy way to get the starter, the brace and the wiring off is to jack the rig, remove the RF wheel and then the rubber splash boot in the inner fender.

ITS ALL RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU.

Block things good, sit on a bucket and go to work.

The nose bracket for the starter is a piece of cake to work on.
The access in over the fame also makes glow plugs a snap too./:D:D

[Robyn]

Here is a link to what I spoke of on accessing the starter

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=43425

Scroll down and view pix 9, 10, 11


GETTING AT THE STARTER IS NOT GONNA GET ANY EASIER.

More useful stuff
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=43423&highlight=Rear+glow+plug+access

[bford]

Manual trans there is no neutral safety switch. But there is a switch similar to a brake light switch on the clutch pedal.

Starter switches are a common wear problem and is located on lower steering column in cab.

If you have to do anything with the slave cylinder line remove the pins and get it out completely. Small roll pin at each end holds it into the cylinders. Any fudging to move for clearance will end up cracking either the master or the slave cylinders. I know, drove across San Jose in rush hour traffic with no clutch. But I never used one much to shift anyways.

And if your starter is bad, I would remove it and take to a local rebuilder if you have one available. DONT LEAVE THE NOSE BRACE OFF.

And one more thing, Welcome to TDP!

Thank you for the warm welcome you guys! I really can't wait till I get this truck running and working good!

Anyway, that's actually what I meant. "clutch safety switch" and not neutral switch. I'm thinking of too many things at once. So from the clutch safety switch, does power go straight down to the starter solenoid signal terminal? Or does it go into a relay on a relay/fuse box under the hood?

I'm trying to figure out how the wiring on it goes so I could know where I need to look and so I could properly test the wiring/starting.



The easy way to get the starter, the brace and the wiring off is to jack the rig, remove the RF wheel and then the rubber splash boot in the inner fender.

ITS ALL RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU.

Block things good, sit on a bucket and go to work.

The nose bracket for the starter is a piece of cake to work on.
The access in over the fame also makes glow plugs a snap too./:D:D

Thank you! I feel more confident now on how to go about the starter. Specially with the link that you posted. I'm going to get that starter removed and see if I could get it rebuilt locally. If not then I'll go buy BOSCH SR8574N starter online since it should be a good brand and should work.

Also, I would like to spin the engine to check and make sure that it's not seized or anything. How do I go about that? On gas engines, I can rotate the engine with the spark plugs in / or take the plugs out. My thing is since diesel engines dont have spark plugs, and they are really high compression engines, I may not be able to turn it without making it not have any compression. So how do you guys do it? And is the rotation of the engine clockwise or counter?

[Robyn]

You can bar it over with the crank bolt up front using a breaker bar.

[N9Phil]

When I kept burning out starters here is what I went to. This starter really cranks the engine and all tho a little expensive it is well worth the price.

Item: Mean Green Gear Reduction Starter, Chevy/GMC (1982-00) 6.2L &
6.5L Diesel (MG6562)

Unit Price: $379.00

[arveetek]

Also, I would like to spin the engine to check and make sure that it's not seized or anything. How do I go about that? On gas engines, I can rotate the engine with the spark plugs in / or take the plugs out. My thing is since diesel engines dont have spark plugs, and they are really high compression engines, I may not be able to turn it without making it not have any compression. So how do you guys do it? And is the rotation of the engine clockwise or counter?

You can remove the glow plugs to release compression on these engines, although the plugs on the passenger side are a bit hard to access due to the turbo mounting and exhaust. Removing the inner fender as mentioned above will give you lots of room to work with, though. The compression on these engines isn't that bad when you turn them over by hand real slow. The compression will leak by and give you a chance to keep turning it clockwise (When looking at the engine from the front).

Casey

[Robyn]

No need to remove the fender...
Just get the wheel/tire off and carefully remove the rubber splash shield..

Shield is held on with plastic push retainers (Which will likely break) and can be found readily at your local parts house in small quantities.

There is a special tool that will reach in and pull the glow plug connectors off the plugs, but I usually just remove the tubular metal shields and slide them back up the wire to allow fingers to get at the plug.


This access through the inner fender area will also allow access to the turbo oil drain and other goodies that from the top look to be impossible to remove.

Have fun

[arveetek]

I meant to say inner fender flap, not the whole fender. Thanks, Robyn.

As far as starters go, I've used this one with GREAT success:

https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/chevy-gmc-truck-starter-6-2-6-5-diesel-high-torque-6469.html

It's inexpensive, and seems to be of good quality. I've owned my 95 Tahoe for 12 years, and gone through 2 of these starters. The original starter (that was on the rig when I bought it) went out pretty soon after purchase. Replaced it with a DB Electrical unit, and it lasted around 10 years. Replaced it a couple of years ago with another unit, and it's still going strong. Also used one on my old 6.2L, and never had an issue.

The parts store rebuilt stuff seems to be pretty sketchy this day. Quality varies from unit to unit.

Casey

[Robyn]

I remember when we used to have to lump the heavy direct drive starters into these rigs :(:(

[Kennedy]

I manual starter switch (old school tool) will allow you to crank the engine with just a pushbutton and test the starter.

[ronniejoe]

When removing glow plugs and such on the passenger side, I have started taking the entire inner fender out. It isn't that hard to get out and it sure makes access much easier, especially on number 8. I don't typically take the inner fender out for the starter though, unless I have it out for some other reason.

I have seen a broken valve spring on the 6.5 before. It makes an awful sound and causes a dead miss.

[phantom309]

I have a 6 ft piece of wire with a alligator clips on it,.i was checking for 12v signal at the starter of one of my cars, the car has a vats system old enough it doesn’t trigger a cel if it goes bad, so i clipped one end onto the solenoid and the other onto the horn, it honked everytime i tried to start it, so I knew i had power there and vats was ok :D