Engine half turns over and then dead

[gary_lucas]

IE no electrical at all.

No locks, no lights etc.

At this point I'm hoping it's batteries (I've had some phantom drain in the past) and I wouldn't be surprised to find out the batteries are cooked well ahead of when they ought to be.

Also, last time the batteries went one of them cracked and there's corrosion on all sets of terminals. I've cleaned them up but their still ugly.

I did disconnect batteries and re-connect, I got electrical back... I then disconnected as I was short on time.

My plan of attack tomorrow is load test both batteries out of the truck. Clean up both sets terminals and replace if necessary. Probably scrub out my battery tray and spray some rust converter in there as well.

If the batteries are good I'll put them back, if not I'll replace them.

I guess my major question is, what will cause the no electrical problem? The batteries definitely have juice in them. The truck starts fine and I put a charger on the truck about once a month when we're not really driving it much. What mechanism would cause it to half turn over and then cut all power?

Thanks!

[DmaxMaverick]

Sounds like lost terminal connection (causing the "dead" condition). If one battery is cracked, I wouldn't mess with either of them. Just replace them, as well as the terminals, and cables as necessary. It's pointless to "test" a cracked/leaking battery. Keep it simple and save some effort and damage risk to the electrical/electronic systems. You'll be doing it anyway, probably sooner than later.

[gary_lucas]

Sounds like lost terminal connection (causing the "dead" condition). If one battery is cracked, I wouldn't mess with either of them. Just replace them, as well as the terminals, and cables as necessary. It's pointless to "test" a cracked/leaking battery. Keep it simple and save some effort and damage risk to the electrical/electronic systems. You'll be doing it anyway, probably sooner than later.

Thanks for the reply DmaxMaverick!

I think I mispoke. The last time the batteries failed, one of them cracked.

I replaced both when that happened. The batteries in the truck are, AFAIK, ok, a couple years old now, but should hopefully be good for a few more years. I have had some phantom draw in the truck that I haven't been able to diagnose.

What I did was clean up the terminals, inspect the batteries... Their sealed so can't check levels... I don't see anything on the battery that makes me suspicious.

I cleaned the terminals, applied some dielectric grease (OMFG that stuff is expensive), re-attached the terminals and it turned over no problem.

So presumably it was just a poor connection. One of my terminals is a bit ugly, I did scrub it out. Next time I'm doing a battery service (This spring most likely I'll pull them out and give them a more thorough going over and put them on a load test.

I'm just happy the problem isn't more serious at the moment. It's pretty crappy weather in Vancouver. Not fun to be messing with bad batteries in the pissing rain.

I did put a voltage meter on each of them. One was 12.62 and the other was 12.63.

[JohnC]

I'd start looking at connections downstream from the batteries, like wherever the power to the vehicle branches off the starter circuit, for example, and also at the grounds. Your symptoms sound like a connection that fails under load somewhere.

I don't know what you mean when you say dielectric grease is expensive, but for about $18 you can get a tube of Dow DC-4 that'll last pretty much a lifetime if you're not in the industry.

[DmaxMaverick]

OK. Then the problem is BEHIND you, for now? If so, then it sounds like the issue was the terminal connections, probably a remnant of the previous problem. Test your batteries later, if you want, but I wouldn't say you've seen anything that would suggest the need (and load testing, most of the time, tells you nothing short of a significant failure, which should be otherwise obvious). Everything points decisively to the connection issue, which is a problem in and of itself. Your independent (disconnected) battery voltages look perfectly fine, with 12.6V being the average, even on new batteries.

[gary_lucas]

Interesting, I'll be moving the truck a few times in the next week or two. If I see further issues I'll keep investigating.

I have had a bit of a phantom draw that I've never been able to track down. Could be anything. I've been able to see a bit of elevated current draw from time to time but haven't gotten to the point of being able to isolate it.

I've just been putting a 2a charger on once every couple of weeks in our off season to keep the batteries topped up.

I've seriously considered building myself a networked amp-meter to get a time graph of amp draw over a week or so. At the very least I'd be able to see the current being drawn down.

My neighbor suspected it might be rain and some crappy connections in my tow electric. Haven't been able to gather evidence on that either.

Not sure why the Lordco dielectric was so expensive. Next time I'm in the garage I'll see what the size and brand was, it's a big tube but was the smallest they had. They charged me $36 CAD and retail was $45 or something.

I'm not sure how to go about hunting for issues downstream of the battery, electrical is probably my weakest area.

[DmaxMaverick]

If all that's required is a trickle charger every couple weeks, stop looking for a problem. The modern technology vehicles will kill batteries in little more than that. Mine is about 4 weeks before it's dead (unable to start, with new-ish batteries), but many are much sooner. These ain't your granddaddy's tractor.

[gary_lucas]

If all that's required is a trickle charger every couple weeks, stop looking for a problem. The modern technology vehicles will kill batteries in little more than that. Mine is about 4 weeks before it's dead (unable to start, with new-ish batteries), but many are much sooner. These ain't your granddaddy's tractor.

That's good to know, I wasn't aware that the drain was that bad.

When I'd been killing batteries before it was the aftermarket lights the previous owner installed, the switch was right near my left knee. Previous owner may have been shorter and hence might not hit the switch _all_ the godamn time.

I pulled the fuse after a few dead batteries. So that's not it anymore!

[Kennedy]

"A few dead batteries" tends to mean they are weak/hurt in my experience. I had issues with my earlier model trucks because I left junk plugged in a lot and they drained. A handful of these instances and they are compromised. You could have one bad cell now that is dragging all others down. The batteries in my 2007 went 7 yrs and were still "OK" but I could tell that they were weak. I never ran them down in this truck.

Just replaced battery for brother in law. He has a Chev (Geo) prism. Battery built in Nov 2006 and we purchased 12/06. Installed 2/07. Replaced 11/17 because it was fading and inconsistent. Almost 11 yrs of service...

[gary_lucas]

"A few dead batteries" tends to mean they are weak/hurt in my experience. I had issues with my earlier model trucks because I left junk plugged in a lot and they drained. A handful of these instances and they are compromised. You could have one bad cell now that is dragging all others down. The batteries in my 2007 went 7 yrs and were still "OK" but I could tell that they were weak. I never ran them down in this truck.

Just replaced battery for brother in law. He has a Chev (Geo) prism. Battery built in Nov 2006 and we purchased 12/06. Installed 2/07. Replaced 11/17 because it was fading and inconsistent. Almost 11 yrs of service...

Thanks for the input Kennedy,

Yah, those were the batteries that cracked and leaked battery acid. They've been replaced since then. However I think we've had two times since then that I've had a low battery situation. Both times I believe the truck had sat for awhile.

These are sealed cells so I can't check them very effectively. Not sure if a load test is worth doing.

I'll probably just keep doing what I'm doing and trickle charging them once in awhile.

If I get another battery dead situation i'll resume investigation and replace them :)

[More Power]

Owners manuals these days recommend disconnecting the negative battery cable(s) for long term storage. AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) and gell cell batteries can sit for months without losing much in the way of charge if they are disconnected from any sort of drain. Jim