6.2 to a 6.5TD swap

[3and3oneton]

Hello,
I've got a 6.5 reman long block being delivered tomorrow. I will be replacing a 6.2 in 1985 one ton truck with it. The truck has the 4 speed manual transmission with an Atlas overdrive. My plan is to use a Banks turbo kit on it. Now I am hoping to get some input on the best way to complete this thing. the more I research, the more confused I get. There are a thousand things out there that would seem to be just what I "need"...

1. I am planning on converting it to a serpentine belt system. What year am I looking for ideally? '97 with a duramax fan sounds very popular, but how much fabrication is involved? There are some pretty pricey aftermarket water pumps on the market, are they necessary? Single thermostat or double? I don't tow a lot, but if I had to...I'm building this with the idea of a cab over camper while towing a boat.

2. What Injection pump and injectors will suit this? It sounds like the DB-4911(?) is the pump, How do you all feel about the +45 h.p. injectors?

3. F code intake? It seems to be talked about a lot, but I am hard pressed to find anybody actually claiming any noticable benefits. My lower intake has the EGR stuff and the two part chamber.

4. Oil pump?

5. Lift pump?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm not real interested in excessive scavenger hunts for parts and pieces, too much other stuff on my plate at the moment. Nor do I have the time, knowledge or skill set for a whole lot of fabrication. Thanks in advance.

[Robyn]

Hi

Banks turbo is fine and will serve you well.

The serp drive can be gleaned from any of the 6.5 engines.

This said, does your truck have AC ??

If you have AC you may want to use a serp drive system from a year that closely locates the AC pump to the side it was on.

Early 6.5 had the AC on the RH side and the alternator on the LH side

96 and later saw these switched and different pumps used.

Water pump... The HO pump is the best deal... Go with a dual stat setup.
I prefer the 180 F stats, especially in warm weather.

The HO pumps were made with both BOLT ON and SCREW ON fan clutches

Pick your choice.

The 4911 IP is the real deal.
F intake is good.

Depending on the heads you use will dictate which injector lines will fit.

DS4 (Electronic type IP ) lines will NOT work

92-93 were the years of 6.5 that used the 4911

The 45 hp injectors ??????

These are HYPE ONLY (The IP is what delivers the fuel)

Use stock injectors with proper pop pressure.

Stay away from the Ebay sellers with the rebuilt or high pop stuff

Get 8 injectors that are either NEW or reman by a local diesel injector shop that knows what they are doing.

Most important is to have all 8 with pop pressures that are very very close.

This makes for a very smooth running engine, plus it helps prevent torsional abuse in the crank due to varying timing cyl to cyl.

Make sure you get a 4911 that is set up properly and not a cosmetic reman.

OIL PUMP

Depending on which block you are getting ????

Is it a later series with the oil squirters in the main webs ???

Use the stock pump

Squirt blocks use a higher volume pump than non squirt blocks.

It is very important to get the right pump.

Put a standard pump on a squirt block and you will have zip oil pressure when the thing warms up.

Put a HIGH VOLUME pump on a non squirt block and the oil pressure will be off in the ozones.

Idle hot on a squirt block is about 10-20 psi and 40 running

The non squirt blocks run higher oil pressure at idle and about 45-50 running.

The lift pump needs to be a stock type 6.5 electric or EQUIVALENT

No more than 5 psi delivery but needs to be able to pump 20 GPH volume.

THE 6.2 likely had a mechanical lift pump on the engine.

You can use the fuel pump mounting boss on the engine (If it has one) to bolt on a cover to connect your turbo oil drain.

BE SURE THE FUEL PUMP BOSS IS DRILLED THROUGH TO THE CRANK CASE.

An easy trick is to use a plate with a JIC fitting in it or a push lock fitting for the turbo oil drain.

Some Franken parts needed to gitterdone :D:D:D

You will likely need to make a few mods to things to get the dual stat crossover to live happily with the throttle cable/brackets.

A little bit of wiring magic will be needed.

You can locate the cold advance switch just as it was on the 6.2
(RH cyl head)
Some rigs of the mid 80's used a glow plug inhibit switch along with the cold advance switch on the RH head.

If you have Glow inhibit it will likely be on the top rear of the RH head.
Remove the switch and connect the wires together.

This was used to keep the glow plugs from cycling when the engine was warm.

The cold advance switch was on the RH head at the lower rear by the exh manifold in this style.

Your 85 may not have the inhibit system.

My 86 did.
We were traveling and stayed overnight at a little po dunk motel in the middle of nowhere and the next morning was cold and snowy and NO GLOW :eek:

Luckily I knew of the glow inhibit switch.
Bypassed it with a paperclip and covered it with masking tape to get home.

The glow controller can be used as is with the same brackets.

Use 60G Delco glow plugs.


The DMAX fan is a nice choice and will move some serious air.

Good luck and have fun

Please share some pix

[3and3oneton]

Thanks for that. That's a lot of good information.

[3and3oneton]

How do I know if I have a squirt block or not? It's supposed to be a optimizer block and heads. It's got 506 stamped on the walls of the valley and it has two V's that make a diamond shape in the valley, which, if I understand correctly are the markings of an optimizer.

[Robyn]

IT'S A Squirt block.

Use the high volume pump listed for the later 6.5

[Robyn]

The <> indicates that the block was cast by navistar.

The only way to know if it was/is an optimizer is to look at the Julian date code on the block

The date code will tell when the block was cast.

[Robyn]

The Julian date on the AMG BLOCKS ARE AS FOLLOWS

XX XX FOLLOWED BY A SINGLE LETTER

Example
10 06 H

H was 2001
I was not used
J was 2002
K =2003
Ect.

Look at your date code (RH Rear block behind the head and in front of the bell housing flange)

This will tell you when the block was cast

[3and3oneton]

well, that is an undecipherable blob.

[3and3oneton]

More questions...low on the right side of the block toward the front of the engine is an opening... what goes there? And in the valley against the firewall is an opening, what goes there? on my 6.2 I think its the vacuum pump in that spot. Near as I can tell on the 6.5 the vacuum pump is pulley driven off the serpentine belt. It sounds like some people just do away with the vacuum pump, what do I need vacuum for? Now that I'm moving from a mechanical lift pump to an electrical lift pump can I just wire that to ignition power, an on/off scenario or do I need to work in a solenoid? What does the solenoid do?
I Know I sound like a 6 year old with a million questions, I appreciate your patience.

[DmaxMaverick]

Mechanical fuel pump.
Oil pump drive (and vacuum pump on early models). A tachometer sender is also available with the oil pump drive.

Vacuum is necessary for ECM controlled wastegate and emission system components. If you don't have, or are not using either, vacuum is not necessary on late model trucks. Earlier models (prior to 88-91, depending on model) may require vacuum for HVAC control. Your 1985 chassis, if OEM, will require vacuum for HVAC control. If it originally did not have A/C, the controls may be manually operated, and not need vacuum. I am not aware of a mechanical solution to retain the original A/C and vent control (even if you omit A/C), without vacuum, although an electric vacuum pump system may work. Vacuum is not necessary for brake booster operation, as all GM Diesel trucks use hydraulic power (PS pump and hydroboost system).

The use of an electrical fuel pump requires the use of a fail-safe. Early 6.5L models use only an oil pressure switch (OPS), and later models rely on the ECM for control of a relay. In your case, I would recommend an OPS to power a relay (solenoid), which powers the fuel pump. Kennedy Diesel offers a packaged solution, if it gets too confusing. In any case, it is not safe (nor lawful) to have a fuel pump powered solely by the ignition switch, or any other method that would allow the fuel lift pump to run when the engine is not. The only exception is for momentary operation for the purpose of fuel system priming, such as pre-start or fuel filter changes.

6 year-old's with a million questions are welcome here.

[3and3oneton]

Thanks!
I'd like to keep the AC, so a vacuum pump it is. Does it matter what style I use?, the vacuum pump/oil pump driver combo unit in the valley seems like the simplest solution.

[DmaxMaverick]

If you don't have a reason to not want the rear mounted vacuum pump, I see no reason to not use it. It would simplify your accessory drive belt situation. Just make sure to include that into your serpentine belt upgrade plan.

[3and3oneton]

cool,
When shopping, it looks like I'm buying for a 6.2 application, which I assume is no big deal. Downside is, I don't see one that will support a tach, which would seem to be the easiest way to get a tach... can't have your cake and eat it too I guess.

[3and3oneton]

I got the old 6.2 out of the truck the other day. I've got the engines side by each and am sorting out obvious differences, and I found one. In the valley toward the back of the engine just up on the wall of the drivers side is a small threaded port that appears to go all the way through. This is not on my 6.2, does this have a purpose or do I just tape up a bolt and plug it up? Also, I've got serpentine belt components, including AC, off a '93 heading my way. If I go with the 6.2 vacuum pump will I need to use an idler pulley(?) in place of the belt driven vacuum pump to keep things whole. Thanks again for all the help.

[Robyn]

Please post a piccy of the port in the valley.

This in likely the extra oil pressure port, but want to see exactly what you are referring to.

If this port is what I think you are referring, it is the same thread as the oil pressure switch and can be plugged with a pipe plug as it is an extra oil galley access.

You can use the serp style vacuum pump as an idler and just not worry about it, or you can drop in the later style oil pump drive that does not have a pump on it.

Just run a hose to the pump up front.

Several options.

Having the pump (pulley) in the serp setup is common even when not used, and no sense in buying stuff if ya already got it.

[3and3oneton]

here it is. Happy Easter!

[Robyn]

OIL PRESSURE PORT.

If you don't need it plug it with a pipe plug.

Its on the same line as the one in the rear that the oil pressure switch goes to.

[3and3oneton]

Perfect. Thanks. Could a guy plug in a oil temp probe in that hole? I like gauges, makes me feel important.

[Robyn]

Hole not deep enough.

Real time useful oil temp would be a probe in the pan to measure what the engine is working with.

[3and3oneton]

Word, thanks. I'm checking out to work for a couple of weeks. Got a list of stuff to get ordered and when I get home I'll start putting it all together. Should have more questions at that point as well. Thanks for all your help so far! I'll post some pics when I've got something cool to show.

[Robyn]

Be safe

[3and3oneton]

So, I'm back from work and sorting through parts and pieces in more than a little dismay. Turns out the coolant pump backing plate from the 6.2 does not line up with the new water pump, so I had to order that. The dipstick tube off the 6.2 doesn't want to work on this 6.5 either. I haven't quite figured out how the AC compressor and alternator brackets off a 93 bolt up to the engine, I'm hoping when I actually have the compressor and alternator on hand it will make a little more sense. Tomorrow I'll start mocking up the turbo and make sure I understand all that. I'm still waiting on an injection pump and the associated parts and pieces. Unfortunately not a lot of progress to report.

[3and3oneton]

I think I've got the new brackets sorted out. Took them down and had them powder coated, got them home and tried putting them on the engine...and...discovered I needed to grind some metal off the power steering/tensioner pulley bracket for it to fit around the new dual t-stat housing. Now it wants to be re-powder coated. bummer.
So, another question, can I re-use the flywheel off the 6.2 on this 6.5?

[Yukon6.2]

You will probably have to find a flywheel.
Most 6.2's have a 2 piece rear seal.And 6.5's have a 1 piece rear main seal.
So the flywheels are balanced different because of the change on the crank to accommodate the 1 piece seal.

[3and3oneton]

not the answer I was hoping for.

[3and3oneton]

Here is a picture of things mostly mocked up. I am still waiting on the the injection pump, injectors and fuel lines, and new motor mounts.
Another minor hiccup I encountered was the alternator for a 6.5 with the serpentine pulley has a different plug in than the 1985 wiring harness. Motion auto supply here in town had a pig tail for the new alternator and it appears like it will be pretty simple to splice it into the existing wiring. Also with the Banks kit, once I clocked the turbo so the intake hose lined up with the plenum, the oil return line won't line up with the fitting at the mechanical lift pump. It was going to be a bit misaligned anyway as the kit was designed to use the mechanical pump and I have opted to remove it and use an electric one.
I am curious if any body has a reason why I might regret using a 6.2 vacuum pump in the valley as opposed to a belt driven one. The Haines book I have for this says
"Some 1984 and later 6.2L models with the stanadyne model 80 fuel filter system, and all 6.5L models, use a belt-driven vacuum pump. The oil pump drive on these models is also different-an oil pump drive replaces the gear driven vacuum pump." The bit about the oil pump drive being different has me a little worried.
Thanks for all your input and help. I'm out to work for three weeks tomorrow, hopefully the injection pump and stuff will be here when I get back so I can finish this thing up. I got about 3 dump runs waiting on this truck to be running.

[Robyn]

Looks great.

The oil drain just has to allow the oil to flow out of the turbo and get back to the pan.

Get creative and use some braided hose and fittings to gitterdone.

The Oil pump drive is the same from the block mating surface down as are the vacuum pumps.

Some drives had nothing on the top of them, some had a pulse generator/signal sender for tachs or ???

Any of the above will work dandy.

Using the belt driven vacuum pump is handy, plus it leaves more room in the rear valley area to get at stuff.

I would not recommend the 6.5 fuel manager (Any of them) Get a Racor 230R2 fuel filter water separator and if need be fashion a nice bracket to mount it on.

In the old square body there is loads of room under the hood to mount it in an easy to access spot.

These have a water bowl on the bottom with a drain cock and a primer plunger to reprime the system.

[JohnC]

The oil drain just has to allow the oil to flow out of the turbo and get back to the pan.

Without any restrictions! There's a lot of oil going through there and if it can't flow freely, under gravity pressure, then it will smoke. (Don't ask me how I know this...)

[Robyn]

Good point John

YUP...

Gotta be an easy run back for sure.

The Turbo shaft end seals are a closed hook end type ring similar to a tiny piston ring and sit outside of the oil drain groove.

If the drain area is flooded the seal will pass oil and as John says SMOKE WILL BE THE RESULT. :eek:

[3and3oneton]

Thanks for the info, I am all about knowledge somebody else learned the hard way! I had thought a braided line set up would be my solution. I'll check back in later next month.

[3and3oneton]

Hi All,

Home from work and back at it. So maybe someone can enlighten me about these two LH exhaust manifolds (photo should be attached). The rusty one is the one that came off my 6.2, the shiny one is the new one I bought for a 6.2/6.5. They are not at all the same thing. Everything I am seeing that resembles the original one is being sold as a humvee manifold. The exhaust crossover tubing that came with the Banks kit almost lines up with the original one, about a 1/2" short front to back and 1/2" misaligned up and down. It's not even remotely close with the new one. What am I missing?
Also, I've got an electric lift pump with a pre-filter. does that need to be mounted low so head pressure from the tank can feed it or can I mount it high against the fire wall? To mount it low in the frame will require me cutting the hard line to fit this set up in, which will end in diesel all over my driveway I'm thinking. That's all for now, Thanks!

[arveetek]

The top manifold is for a Naturally Aspirated 6.2L diesel engine used in the 82-87 "square body" style trucks. The bottom manifold is for a Turbocharged 6.2L/6.5L diesel engine used in the 88-98 body style trucks. Either manifold will fit the engine, but it's the body style and exhaust routing that makes the difference.

Casey

[JohnC]

Blow the fuel back down the line and into the tank, then it won't siphon when you cut the line.

[3and3oneton]

Thank you both.

[3and3oneton]

allright...

first I've got a picture of a sensor thingy on the old 6.2 and the corresponding port on the new 6.5. What is this sensor/sender?

and two pictures of what I believe to be the port that will supply oil to the turbo?



thanks again for all the help.

[DmaxMaverick]

The first is a coolant temp sender.

The second (port) is NOT for the turbo. It's the Crank Position Sensor hole. If your engine is MFI (mechanical injection), it will need to be plugged, or a sensor installed (working or not). Some of the replacement timing covers will have the hole, but needs to be "knocked out", like an electrical panel boss. If the hole isn't all the way through, just ignore it. I doubt this is the case with your engine, as it is already completely assembled. Check carefully.

[3and3oneton]

coolant temp huh? there's a sensor/sender unit on the radiator that I was thinking was my coolant temp. maybe that is a transmission fluid temp? I think that if this was an automatic the tranny fluid has a path through the radiator. Not sure of that though. Thank you.

[3and3oneton]

there shouldn't be any pressure pushing against the crankcase position sensor should there? Being as that port isn't threaded could a guy get away with jamming a rubber plumbers plug type of thing in that hole and calling it good?

[Robyn]

The rear right coolant sensor is actually an ON/OFF temp switch that controls the cold case advance and the fast idle on the IP.

When the engine is cold the switch is closed and the cold advance and the fast idle are activated and at around 120 F coolant temp the switch opens and the advance drops to normal timing and the fast idle solenoid allows the engine to drop to normal idle speed.

As Maverick mentioned about the port up front... If the port under the red caplug goes through... then stuff a used crank position sensor in it.

Or you can fashion a little steel or aluminum plate with a bolt hole in it and Silicone seal and bolt it to the cover using the threaded hole in the cover.

Either way just get it oil tight.


Check your rear sensor off the old engine, and if it will pass current cold and opens at about 120 F then use it.

The cold advance switch can be tough to find at the parts houses so use yours if you can.

If it shows open cold (room temp) its toast.

The sensor in the radiator is likely either a temp switch to turn on the auxiliary electric fan, or possibly trip the low coolant light.

I recommend against the rubber plug.

Cut a small piece of steel or alloy plate that will fit over the port drill it and bolt it down after applying hitemp silicone to the surface.

Does your 6.2 have a similar sensor/switch on the top RH rear port in the head.
About 85/86 they added a glow plug inhibit switch that looks just like the one for the advance on the Right rear.

If you have both...don't mix them up as they are different.

The glow inhibit switch can be jumpered at the plug and forgotten as they are a PITA

Good luck

[3and3oneton]

I understand you to be referencing two sensors on the rear right side; glow plug inhibitor and a cold case advance/fast idle for the IP. The old 6.2 did have a sending unit in that location, I don't recall unplugging any wires from it though. At this point my glow plugs are controlled by a toggle switch in the cab, so if it's a glow plug inhibitor it's probably a moot point for now. Would a mechanical IP have a cold case advance/fast idle sensor? Would I have both these sensors somewhere rear right, or just on or the other? Unless I'm missing one, I've got whatever goes rear right, oil pressure sender at the rear left location and the temp sensor front left.
this is where it gets interesting, getting into parts and pieces I didn't even know existed. Thanks again for all you all's help!

[Robyn]

Yessss
The mechanical IP uses the cold advance and fast idle.

Simply reconnect the wires that came off the switch on the RH rear of the head by the glow plug.

The wires at the IP split and connect to the cold advance solenoid and to the fast idle solenoid.

A manual momentary switch is the best for the glow system.

A Ford starter relay and a momentary button to activate it.

[DmaxMaverick]

The sensor in the radiator is the coolant level sender. Keep it clean. There is no temp sender in the radiator, ever, unless you put one there.

[3and3oneton]

I got another one... My Chiltons book says to torque the glow plugs to 156 inch pounds or something like that. When I was installing them it seemed like I could screw them all the way through the head, they did not want to bottom out. I kinda backed out of it once the shoulder of the glow plug was recessed into the head. Any thoughts on this? Thanks again, you've been a huge help to me.

[Robyn]

Make sure the plugs you are using are the same design/size as the originals.

AC Delco 60G plugs are the real deal and will fit correctly.


The factory plugs that have been used over the years all look the same physically, but have different internals.


Please post a piccy of the plugs you are using for us to see.
(Lay a used plug with it)

The hex portion of the plug should stay outside the head casting.

The proper plugs will have a tapered seat that seals against the head.

Place one of your new plugs alongside an old one and note the difference (if any)

[3and3oneton]

I'll do that. They are glow plugs that came with the long block, I guess I was just assuming he sent me ones appropriate for the engine he sold me.

I got the engine in the truck yesterday! I am still waiting on my injection pump though. Apparently Peninsular is having troubles getting it from standadyne at the moment, It was ordered back in April.

Thanks and have a great 4th!

[3and3oneton]

Figured out the glow plugs, they are not AC delco but visually I see no difference. I pulled an AC Delco out of the 6.2 and put it in the new engine and it went in past the threads before bottoming out, putting a new glow plug in the 6.2 bottomed out with 2ish threads still showing. The new glow plugs in the new engine bottomed out past the threads. Seems like a minor variation in the heads.
I plumbed in the new oil cooler today. The 6.2 had plumbing that routed oil through the radiator as well as an oil cooler. The supplier of the new oil cooler, (I ordered one for a 6.5) said the 6.5 only used the oil cooler and that I shouldn't need to run it through the radiator as well. So I plan on using the oil cooler only. Does it matter the direction the oil goes through the oil cooler? It seems to me that as long as it passes through the fins it will cool down. I don't know what the official "in" and "out" of the block or the oil cooler is; and does it matter? Thanks again for all your help. Wish I had an injection pump...

[Yukon6.2]

Watch eBay
I bought 2 DB2931 new military pumps,each one was less than $200 delivered to my post office.
The military pumps have ceramic pistons and plungers.

[3and3oneton]

I got one ordered, just waiting on it to arrive.

[Robyn]

Sounds like things are progressing well now.

Unless the cooler is marked with IN/OUT specific ports then it will make no difference.


Keeping the oil out of the radiator is a better way to go as the hot oil just adds more heat to the stack is all.

The later 6.5 rigs have the oil cooler ahead of the AC condenser behind the grill.

The cooler is approximately a foot square is all.

I would use the stainless braided oil lines with the JIC fittings as the stock lines are crap and will leak in due time.

[3and3oneton]

That is what I've got going on, Braided line and all! I'm having my power steering hoses made up in braided line as well. Turns out it wasn't that much more expensive than buying stock ones, who doesn't love braided line? I'm back out to work on Tuesday, hopefully I'll have an injection pump when I get back and can finally finish this project up. Here's a few pictures.

[Robyn]

Looking great

Gotta love the Square body trucks. :D:D

[JeepSJ]

Make sure you secure those braided lines so they do not rub. One of my power steering pressure lines was rubbing on my inner fender and it actually rubbed through the braid and exposed the inner teflon liner which then burst and I lost power steering and power brakes at the same time.

[3and3oneton]

Thanks for the warning!

[3and3oneton]

Hello all,

Just got back home from work and heard that my IP will be shipping today. Which leads to the next question...What is the process for correctly installing this thing? Specifically the timing of the engine to the IP?
Thanks.

[Robyn]

Hey...Sounds good

To get the IP on the engine and timed.


Make sure the timing gears on the cam and crank are set correctly.

Align the dot on the IP gear with the cam gears dot.

Insert the IP into the timing cover and over the studs.

The drive flange on the IP has a bolt pattern that will only align one way with the gears bolt holes.

Some IP'S have a pilot stud that indexes the flange and the gear.

Be sure to use BLUE loctite on the bolts that hold the gear to the IP.

If a bolt drops out it gets UGLY.

Your fresh IP should have an indexing mark on the top of the flange that bolts to the timing cover.

Align the mark on the pump with the mark that should be on the cover.

If no marks present then set the pump as close to straight up as possible.

Getting the timing tweaked will be a bit of guess work after you light the beast off.

***** Don't forget the gasket between the IP and the timing cover *****

Use a little high temp silicone between the gasket and the cover ONLY so the pump can be moved later.

Use a bit of light grease or vaseline on the pump flange so it will move to adjust timing LITTLE BITTY SMEAR ONLY.
You just want to be sure the gasket stays stuck to the case and the pump will move easily when needed.

Don't tighten the retaining nuts real tight until the engine is running and the timing is set.

SNUG will do for now, but DON'T FORGET TO TIGHTEN THE BOLTS FULLY LATER

Once the timing is where you want it place a chisel across the pump flange and cover and strike to make a clean sharp witness mark for future reference.

If the cover and the IP have marks USE THEM AS A REFERENCE TO START FROM.

For initial start up

With glow plugs OUT and fuel to the IP spin the engine with the starter until fuel blows out the glow plug holes big time.

Install plugs and go for a start.

This is a fast and easy way to get a fresh engine up and going without frying the starter, batteries and your patience. :)

Once running smooth, if there is white smoke it means you need to advance the IP some.


Good luck

[3and3oneton]

Thank you,

[3and3oneton]

My IP and misc. parts arrived a few days ago so I'm back at it. And of course it has created some more questions.

The injectors a bit shorter than the ones out of the 6.2 I assume this is a 6.2 to 6.5 difference and I shouldn't be alarmed. This all came from Peninsular, and I get the impression they are pretty legit. In my box of goodies there was a little bag of 16 copper or brass rings that would appear to go on the base of the injectors. Is this so? why are there 16?

I got the IP mounted, it seemed a little to easy...that always worries me. I am attaching some pictures.

I got a new vacuum pump today, I went with the gear driven style from a 6.2. There is one stub to attach a hose coming off the diaphragm housing thing thing. It is labeled inlet...? I guess that is because that is where a vacuum is getting pulled into? It is huge compared to the little tiny vacuum hose coming out of the fire wall. And I, with my incredible foresight, got rid of all my 6.2 leftovers last week to make room in the garage...besides the visual reference angle, there was a $15 core charge for said vacuum pump. Oh well.

Anyway, thanks for all your help so far. I would have been having a real hard time without all your help.

[trbankii]

Somewhere around 1988, the long body injectors were changed over to the short body injectors. The long and short body injectors will interchange. It is the vans (all years) and turbocharged trucks that need the short injector for clearance.

[Robyn]

Pix look spot on.

The injectors are different between the early 6.2 and the 6.5 (Short/long thing)

Which injector lines do you have ???

The line sets are also different as well.

If your lines are for the long injectors (taller) they may not reach the shorter injectors.

There were some changes in the injectors when GM introduced the turbo in 1992.

They needed room for the exhaust manifold to clear the injectors on the RH side and shorter injectors were used along with the matching line set.

If you have to changes the lines you must keep them as matched sets (All 8)

Every line is exactly the same length ( This is why the goofy bends and coils in the lines)

The reason is ignition timing, and the length of the line changes(can change) the time it takes the pressure pulse to reach the injector.

So if you run into issues and need to swap lines, just be sure you get a complete set.

If scavenging off a used engine be sure to remove in the pairs they are in and label the sets (2-4....6-8....1-3... 5-7)

The lines were ORIGINALLY clamped in pairs.

There are a couple lines that can be mixed up, but most really only fit in one spot, or at least properly fit.


Using the rubber isolators and the sheet metal U clamps to retain the lines is a good idea as this stops the lines from vibrating and possibly cracking.

THE VACUUM HOSE.
Originally there was a rubber adapter that connected the tiny plastic line that feeds the HVAC system to the pump.

Depending on the particular truck and which tranny it has there can be a vacuum line that goes to A CONTROL VALVE on the IP to run the vacuum modulator on the Auto trans (TH-400)

You can fabricate what you need to get your lines connected using off the shelf rubber vacuum hose fittings.

A little imagineering will suffice :D:D

Not sure why you received 16 copper rings.
A ring goes between the injector and the head.

Using the proper socket for installing the injectors is preferred, but you can do it with a wrench on the bottom of the injector body.

Good luck
Keep us in the loop.

Robyn

[3and3oneton]

Sounds like things are right for now. The injection lines, injectors, IP gear, IP and hold down clips all came together from Peninsular.
I'll be out with the family for the next week.
Thanks again.

[3and3oneton]

I started putting things together today and ran into another issue I was wondering if any one had experience with. The banks upper plenum/pressure chamber unit has a round opening at the base with a round gasket, My 6.5 F spec intake manifold is more squared up...the two do not match up. I called banks and they seemed kinda confused, thinking that all intakes were round. Any thoughts? I did get all the injector lines installed and the intake manifold bolted up. Why is there, what appears to be, coolant ports that come from the heads and dead head against the intake manifold? I put the same gasket sealant stuff just around those ports that I used on my water pump and left the rest of the gasket dry. hopefully that is correct. Thanks!

[DmaxMaverick]

The 6.2L (and 6.5L N/A) and 6.5TD intake manifolds will fit on either. However, the intake plumbing that attaches to them is different. You need a 6.2L intake manifold to match your Banks 6.2L inlet. Or, use 6.5L intake plumbing, and hose couplings to connect the turbo to the 6.5L intake.

The 6.2L and 6.5L heads are universal (with coolant ports at both ends). Meaning, they can be used on either side. The "blanked" coolant ports are normal. The newer head gaskets address this much better than past gaskets, and should eliminate the pitting that was once common.

[3and3oneton]

I'm referring to a rectangular port in the middle of the head that gets covered by the solid base of the intake manifold...not so much the ports at the ends of the head...or are those the "blanked" ports you are referring to?

I asked Banks about just using the 6.5 upper intake and guy thought it would be to restrictive. It's a lot shallower than the Banks unit, not as much volume I'd say. I already got rid of the 6.2 intake, besides that my 6.5 is powder coated and pretty. I'm going to go see a guy tomorrow about making an adapter plate from the 6.5 intake to the banks pressure chamber. I think counter sink the four corner bolt holes and attach it to the intake with machine screws (I think that's what they are called...beveled head and bolt threads) using the 6.5 gasket, then bolt the banks unit on over that with the two center line bolts using the 6.2 gasket. Either that or start scavenging junk yards on line for a j code intake manifold. I appreciate the input. Did you get a good eclipse show where your at?

[DmaxMaverick]

The center port in the head is EGR. Your F code intake doesn't have EGR, so it's flat. The gasket will seal that hole, so don't worry about it.

I suppose an adapter plate could be made (and would probably work fine), but the "restrictive" and "too little volume" comments is hogwash. The least volume possible is desired, as long as it isn't restrictive. Cross-sectional volume is all that is critical. Too much volume can increase lag and blow-off bark. The 6.5L intake isn't "too restrictive", by any definition, for sane power levels. You are installing a turbo, which negates nearly any issue with N/A intake restrictions and porting. If you do go with an adapter, make sure it seals well, and is thick/heavy enough to withstand the pressure (this applies to the fasteners, as well).

Not much for the eclipse where I am. Too far south. The eclipse looked like a cookie with a bite out of it, and daylight dimmed a bit, but that was it.

[3and3oneton]

My new challenge is connecting the 92 type OPS and electric lift pump into the 85 single wire OPS wiring harness. I've got a pigtail with three wires hanging off it to plug into the OPS. If I understand correctly one wire will hook to a 12v power source, another will tie into the solenoid and the third one will tie into the single wire of the existing wiring harness/dash guage. The big mystery is which wire is which. the pig tail has three black wires, so not color coded. I've attached a picture of the pigtail plug. Anybody know what wire goes where?

[3and3oneton]

Here is a picture of the adapter plate we came up with, I think it will work pretty well. I might get a slight groove machined out around the 6" hole for the gasket to set in so I can be a little more sure it's centered up and sealing. For the time being it'll have to ride.
On the dual thermostat set up I'm using is there supposed to be a gasket for the housing or are the two rubber o-ring thing things that came with the thermostats all that are used? Does the rubber o-ring sit on one side or the other? there is a groove around the inside of the o-ring that looks like the edge of the thermostat might slide into it. Either way when I put it all together there is a 1/16" of an inch gap between the two housing sections. Do I just tighten it up and force it to close up? Do I use a sealant if I'm just using the rubber O-rings? It's amazing to me how, what I thought would be simple and self explanatory, turns out to be a bit confusing. Thanks for all the help.

[JohnC]

Yes, put the t-stats in the grooves of the rubber gaskets, rubber on top and bottom. No other gaskets are required.

[3and3oneton]

perfect! Thanks.

[Yukon6.2]

Did you have to modify the thermostat outlet for your truck?
I had to, to use the upper dual housing on my crewcab with the original 6.2 the outlet had to have a different angle for the hose to clear.
You may have to do a little fabricating for your throttle linkage and high idle solenoid.
I have a dual setup on both NA and turbo'ed engine.On the NA engine i had to rework the angle for the top rad hose and do some work to get the throttle cable hooked up..And on the 97 turbo engine when i changed to mechanical pump i had to move the high idle solenoid and build a bracket for the throttle cable.The upper hose outlet was made for the 97 so the hose route never changed.
Let me know if you would like to see what i did if you run into issues.
Thomas

[3and3oneton]

I appreciate that. The dual T-stat set up I got came with a bracket to line up the throttle cable and instructions on how to modify the existing bracket to make it all work. I'm hoping to get into that this afternoon. I'll certainly get at you if I get in a jam.

[3and3oneton]

Hello yukon6.2, I'd love to see your pictures of your dual t-stat/throttle bracket set up. What I got is not adding up. I'm not seeing how the high idle solenoid is going to fit in the space left over. The included instructions were brief and the reference pictures look like they were copied using the mimeograph machine from my elementary school. Thanks.

[Yukon6.2]

Hi 3 on 3
i just bumped up my thread on doing the conversion modifications.
Check it out and let me know if i can help with other pic's or whatever.
If all else fails my conversion truck is down at the moment and i could mail you the stuff to copy if it was sent back.

Thomas

[3and3oneton]

I had sent an e-mail to kennedy diesel about how this kit was supposed to accomodate the high idle solenoid. Being as I sent it on saturday I did not expect an answer till monday or tuesday, But he responded later that day. Apparently I'm supposed to just ditch the high idle and manually turn the resting idle up to 800 and call it good. So that is what I did. I'd love to look at your thread, but I'm not sure how to find it, I haven't put any effort into it yet though.
I've been struggling through some of the final details the last few days. The stock diesel return tubing doesn't seem to work very well with the dual t-stats and the Banks turbo sitting to the front of the engine. So I had to fake that, I cut the stock tubing in half, then reworked it a bit with a tubing bender. So its now hose at the top "T" where the IP return dumps in. After installing the adapter plate on the intake my bolts were not long enough to secure the pressure chamber, none of the hardware stores carry a 8mm x 1.25 any longer than I got, so I have to wait till tomorrow to go to a specialty store. Spent all day today trying to remember how the wiring all goes back together, I'm super apprehensive about my ability to figure out crossing over the OPS and alternator wiring into the '85 wiring harness. Yesterday I put oil in it and circulated oil through the engine, I circulated till I had oil coming into the turbo and oil at both the inlet and outlet of the oil cooler, then circulated it for another 5 min. I hope thats enough, I figure if its getting through the cooler it must have worked its way through the engine. I'm kinda of at the scary stage where I'm close to trying to kick it off, but second guessing my work and worrying if I've forgotten something. That was kind of a long post, just sorta sharing where I'm at and fretting out to the internet...and hopefully somebody else will get some use out of all this later on down the road. Thanks for all your help and input.

[3and3oneton]

Here are some pictures of the fuel return chop job. Passenger side, IP return and driver side. Just for fun.

[3and3oneton]

And here's some more...just for fun. First off I used black iron to push the JIC fittings for the oil cooler lines out from the block, making them a little more accesible. Second, what the throttle cable modification and modified coolant thing thing from Kennedy diesel look like after I put it together, pretty clean I think. Third, The banks turbo kit is not quite the exact fit that my novice ass was hoping for. I ended up having to cut that pipe and having a piece of flex pipe welded in to give me the wiggle room needed to make it up. And last but not least, just a picture of the engine in the truck at this point. I've been holding off on the fan and radiator and such because I need that space to stand in still still. Thanks for looking.

[DieselDavy]

3 and 3,
Looks like some very nice work! Way to go!

[Yukon6.2]

Hi 3x3
The thread is right under this one now.
It's called 98 electronic to mechanical swap

[Yukon6.2]

Hi 3X3
By your picture the oil lines look like they are close to the frame.
How much space do you have under the lines where they cross over the frame?
Thomas

[3and3oneton]

Yukon, I found the thread, thanks. It turned out looking very nice. I'm not set up for metal work though. I was cutting down my throttle cable bracket with a hacksaw. And there is very minimal space between the frame and the oil lines. I'm guessing that's going to be a problem and I'm going to have to revisit that?

[DieselDavy]

3x3,
Looks like you could use Black Iron elbows instead of the unions you used and maybe get away from the frame. Of course it is easy for us to "arm chair" advise!
Dave

[3and3oneton]

Yeah Dave, looking at it maybe a 45 would even give some clearance. I figured the engine would ride with the frame and it wouldn't be an issue. The fact it got brought up leads me to believe I was mistaken. I'll probably cross my fingers and let it ride until the first oil change and change it up at that point. I haven't researched it yet, but I'm guessing I'll want to do an oil change within 500 miles, so it won't have to make it very long.
T.John (I'm sensing that signing off is proper etiquette at this point)

[Yukon6.2]

Hi 3x3
I brought it up because when i got my tow truck the rubber was gone out of the passenger side engine mount.When i would put it in gear with a load on the engine would lift up on one side.If i remember it was the pass side that would lift about an inch or so.
I think that there is a chance of the fittings hitting the frame under the right/wrong situation.When the oil lines break/disconnect the oil loss is quick and usually causes an engine failure if it goes unnoticed for a few seconds.
Thomas

[3and3oneton]

Hello everybody,
I'm home from work again and trying to put this finishing touches on this thing. At this point I just need to prime the fuel system, install the rest of the exhaust, fill the radiator, fill and bleed the power steering system and finish up crossing over the OPS and alternator wiring harness. As for the wiring, I need to get the truck running so it will register oil pressure. Then I can make sure the lift pump is tied in to the OPS correctly. My new dilemma is I can't find a diagram for the belt install without the AC and the vacuum pump. every thing I am finding shows an idler pulley where the ac compressor would go. I don't have that nor can I find one for a 93 6.5. My system is configured with the AC compressor on the passenger side and the alternator on the drivers side. If I can sort out this belt issue I am hoping to go for a start tomorrow. Thanks for all your help.

[Robyn]

To prime the oil and get fuel up to the injectors is easy.

Remove all the glow plugs and spin the engine.

Without having to buck compression the engine spins like the wind, and oil pressure will come up quickly and as soon as fuel mist is blowing out the glow plug holes your ready to go.

Easy on the starter, batteries AND YOUR PATIENCE :D

[3and3oneton]

Thanks, I recall your previous post about pulling the glow plugs. The lift pump and wiring harness from Leroy diesel has a manual switch for running the lift pump and purging the system. Assuming I have the wiring correct that should be pretty straight forward. My big road block is the belt. How does it route over the pulleys with no AC pulley or idler pulley, is it even possible? It has to be possible, I can't find an idler pulley for a 93 6.5 and they didn't all have AC...so something had to be done...I'll keep digging. Thanks again!

[3and3oneton]

a
Allright, I found an idler pulley. Went to the parts store and they found this Dorman part #34224. Dorman has it listed very vaguely as Chevy 1993-85. No engine application, when I enter 93 chevy 6.5 diesel in Dormans vehicle search they show no match for an idler pulley to replace the AC compressor. So...long story short, this works with a 102" belt, no vacuum pump.

[Robyn]

Sweeeeeet.

The lift pump will only purge the filter and get fuel up to the IP.

The only way to get the injector pump and lines free of air is to spin the engine until air free fuel comes out the injectors.



Good luck

[3and3oneton]

So I'm back on this beast! How long should it take to purge the IP and fuel lines? I've ran the batteries down twice trying to see diesel coming out the glow plug holes. I've only got the 4 glow plugs on the driver side pulled. With the turbo to the front of the engine the exhaust off the turbo runs along the side of the passenger side head before dropping down, I am not looking forward to changing out those glow plugs when the time comes.
Aside from that, it would appear that my belt is trying to work itself off the alternator pulley. And I still need to sort out the OPS wiring, I know (I think) that of the three wires I need to figure out which is a 12v in off a constant power, which is a 12v out to the relay and which is the gauge. I have the lift pump powered off an ignition power source to try and get it running for the time being. My oil pressure gauge is showing pegged out and so far stays that way regardless of which wire off the OPS I plug into it...I'm wondering if that means the gauge itself is faulty?
And I'm not super confident about the alternator wiring...have to get it running and make sure that it is charging and such.
That's where I'm at, any insight or advice is appreciated. Thanks!

[Robyn]

HMMMMM.

Make sure the I P is powered up during cranking/key on

With the plugs out, the lift pump on and spinning you should see fuel in less than a minute of free spinning of the engine..

[3and3oneton]

There was a powered wire to the IP, but it was getting so hot you could barely touch it. Figured "this can't be right" and pulled it. Why would a mechanical IP need power to work? I'll dig into this this afternoon. Just a power wire off the ignition I assume? Thanks!

[Yukon6.2]

Hi 3+3
The power to the mechanical pump keeps the shutoff open while you have power.Killing the power is your engine shutoff.
What injection pump did you get for the truck?
The military pumps have a 24V shutoff.

[3and3oneton]

I got the DB4911 from peninsular. It's amazing what I am learning from you all. I'll get some power to it today and see what happens. Thanks.

[JohnC]

A 12v pump might get hot if connected to 24 volts, but not the other way around.

[Robyn]

The pump goes CLICK when the power is connected.

Check your feed line and then with the key on connect it to the shut off solenoid spade on the IP

YOU SHOULD HEAR AN AUDIBLE CLICK

[3and3oneton]

That seemed to do it. I heard the click and started misting diesel out of the glow plug holes. I buttoned it all back up and tried to start it. It hasn't caught yet but I do have exhaust coming out of the tail pipe so diesel is in the combustion chambers. letting the batteries charge back up right now.

[3and3oneton]

Turns out my glow plugs weren't kicking on, fixed that problem and it fired right up. Seems to be just as clackity sounding as the old 6.2 at idle...Maybe that's just how it is. I had hoped for a nice smooth purr, maybe getting the injection timing lined out and a little break in period will smooth it out some? We'll see. Turns out I have a leak in my oil cooler, I think when I was putting on the fittings for the lines I tweaked the whole thing a bit and broke something in the fins, it's leaking right above one of the fittings. Anyway, I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel on this project. Finally.

[Robyn]

Sweeeeeeeeeeet

Glad you got things coming together :):)

As far as sound goes, these engines are for the most part IDENTICAL

Same internal geometry basically.

The 6.5 has a slightly larger bore is all.

The head layout is the same with only slight changes to the pre cups due to power levels and the addition of the turbo

Emission regs were a tad different as well.

The 6.5 with the electronic injection HAVE A LOT SHARPER RATTLE than with the mechanical pumps.

The basic "RATTLE RATTLE RATTLE RATTLE is not going to change.

The design of a PRE CUP engine just makes them sound as they do.


Don't expect much change in the sound even after fooling with the timing.

The second terminal on the IP controls the "COLD ADVANCE SOLENOID" and when active will make the engine RATTLE A LOT HARDER.

The cold advance needs to be wired through the COLD ADVANCE SWITCH that is normally located on the RH side rear of the RH head.

This is a 2 prong thermal switch that closes when cold and opens at around 120 F

The wiring should come from a 12 volt ignition switched source to the Cold advance switch, then on to the cold advance solenoid and also feed the fast idle solenoid (Mounts on the IP and holds the throttle open slightly when active to give about 1000 RPM)

The fast idle solenoid activates when the key is turned on (cold start) and the throttle depressed while the glow plugs are heating up.

TURN ON KEY, PRESS AND RELEASE THE THROTTLE THEN START WHEN THE GLOW LAMP GOES OUT.

If you are using a manual switch on the glow plugs then just turn on key, press and release throttle, the glow for 10-20 seconds or a little longer when real cold, start engine.

Fast idle and the cold advance will shut off in a short while as soon as the engine warms a bit.

AS far as the timing goes, after the engine is warm and the cold advance is off the rattle should be much less and the tail pipe should be clear.

If you get any wispy BLUE/WHITE smoke then the timing is retarded and needs to be advanced.

WITH ENGINE OFF

Loosen the 3 bolts holding the IP to the timing cover and advance the pump a tiny bit (one width of the witness mark at a time)

When the engine is warmed up and the advance is manually activated (12 volts to advance connection) the rattle of the engine should increase noticeably and if not then the timing is retarded (or the advance is not working)


Clean tail pipe and modest rattle will get you close on timing

A Exhaust temp gauge will help a bunch.

Retarded timing will cause the EGT to run HOT and smokey.

Too much advance will cause a lot of hard rattle.

Timing is important, but you can get things plenty close enough with the BUTT DYNO.


Black smoke out the tail pipe is OK for a short time when mashing the throttle but should not ROLL COAL

Clean smoke free idle even just after a cold start and all cyls are firing and the engine is running smooth.


Good luck

Robyn

[3and3oneton]

Thanks for all the information. Unfortunately I'm on hold again. I've had to order another oil cooler as I broke the other one making up the fittings to it. So, until that arrives I'm pretty much two blocked. More later...

[3and3oneton]

Pleasant surprise today, my new oil cooler showed up this morning...I believe some laws of physics must have been broken for it to get here so fast. I'm not going to complain. So I got that re-installed today and fired up again, only to discover diesel leaking. I found a pinhole leak on one of the fittings for the fuel return lines. Easy fix, the hardest part was finding the fitting.
So now it's running and I've run out of time on this project. It goes to a mechanic tomorrow to finish up the wiring and then to the muffler shop to install the exhaust. I would have liked to see it through to the end but I've got to end this and get my truck back. Thanks for all your help on this, I enjoyed the project and learned a ton.