what wears out in an IP

[phantom309]

when the IP is "rebuilt",. what is usually replaced? what are the wear parts?
can an IP be 'refreshed'> rather than a complete rebuild,.
sorta like rings and bearings rather than a re-bore etc on a motor,...

My damn truck is playing funny biuggers when its cold starting,. it's like the pump is either not enough pressure of its a little retarded,. the motor just slowly runs faster than the startetr then sort of catches and runs fine,.
like the pump is finally making enough pressure to run,.the idle is a bit slower these days too ,. hot or cold,..
drives fine tho,..

[JeepSJ]

The pump head wears out. A lot of the cheap rebuilds don't replace the head, as that is the most expensive part. Once the head goes, replacement is the only option. Replacing seals on a worn pump is like replacing seals on a worn out engine.

[Kennedy]

Air, dirt (including carbon), water, and lack of lubricity cause wear in the fuel system. I good additive like FPPF Total power goes a LONG way to help this.

[Robyn]

Just a possibility...

Does the engine put out a lot of white smoke and shudder/shake (misfire) while it's getting going ?????

If this is the case your IP may be serviceable and the real issue may be that the injectors are worn out and instead of spraying a nice fine cone of fuel mist, they are basically Peeing a ragged stream of fuel.

The other possibility is that several glow plugs may be non functional.


Yank out 3 or 4 injectors and get them pop tested to see what sort of spray pattern they are producing and the pop pressure.

If the injectors are in sad shape a fresh set will likely help a bunch.

With an old pump DON'T USE HIGH POPS
Get a local shop to rebuild a set and keep the pop pressure at the lower end of the normal range.

The other issue may be a small air leak/fuel drain back that ends up giving you a small air lock issue when the rig has sat over night.

Some things to consider before you drop the serious coin for an IP.

[convert2diesel]

I hate to suggest the obvious but when was the last time you filled the truck up and did you give it some additive? Up until last week, we have had some pretty cold weather. Perhaps a partial wax build up in the filter??? Around here, winter diesel didn't hit the pumps until mid November.

Have you done a power test? If it pulls well up to a certain point then falls flat on its face, typically this is low pressure fuel delivery (filter, lift pump etc.). A gradual loss of power over the whole power band, hard smokey starts etc. typically points to the IP.

The pumps are not really hard to overhaul, even if you have to replace the head, however, you do need a flow bench to set them up properly. Probably easier and cheaper to get a good reman. It also good advice to replace the squirts at the same time and setup pop pressures to match.

Probably not what you wanted to hear but I would be absolutely anal about checking the fuel delivery upstream of the IP before condemning the big ticket items. Spent a butt load of cash on my first 5.7 Olds, only to find that a new filter I had replaced had gotten a load of wax into it and had collapsed. Couldn't be the filter....I just replaced that :eek:

Just as an aside, my 89 snowplow gets the same symptoms if I forget to put in the additive. The old DB2s do not like the new ULSD. Add some kerosene for the winter and I can hardly get it home from the gas station. Like pumping sand through the IP.

Bill

[Robyn]

Good stuff by convert. :)

[phantom309]

I hate to suggest the obvious but when was the last time you filled the truck up and did you give it some additive? Up until last week, we have had some pretty cold weather. Perhaps a partial wax build up in the filter??? Around here, winter diesel didn't hit the pumps until mid November.

Have you done a power test? If it pulls well up to a certain point then falls flat on its face, typically this is low pressure fuel delivery (filter, lift pump etc.). A gradual loss of power over the whole power band, hard smokey starts etc. typically points to the IP.

The pumps are not really hard to overhaul, even if you have to replace the head, however, you do need a flow bench to set them up properly. Probably easier and cheaper to get a good reman. It also good advice to replace the squirts at the same time and setup pop pressures to match.

Probably not what you wanted to hear but I would be absolutely anal about checking the fuel delivery upstream of the IP before condemning the big ticket items. Spent a butt load of cash on my first 5.7 Olds, only to find that a new filter I had replaced had gotten a load of wax into it and had collapsed. Couldn't be the filter....I just replaced that :eek:

Just as an aside, my 89 snowplow gets the same symptoms if I forget to put in the additive. The old DB2s do not like the new ULSD. Add some kerosene for the winter and I can hardly get it home from the gas station. Like pumping sand through the IP.

Bill

All good points,. thanks for the different perspectives,.and idea's

I always fill the truck, i,ve been using howes since first snows,.
I added a pint of ashless two stroke oil a week ago,.

I do have a large cat fuel filter,. and i haven't changed it since last year,..
so i will change it,.i have rubber fuel lines from tank to pump and back again,.they are proper fuel lines

i put in some new glow plugs,. but i wasn't happy with them,.thinking on it,. i think 3-4 glows have failed again,.

I have an aftermarket custom chip,. the truck will pull to 4400 rpm,.without falling on its face at all,. it's just getting it started,. slower than normal idle,.

I have some new injectors,. the ones in there now were ebay specials and have 177,000 kms on them,..the new ones say bosch, i,ve had them for 5-6 yrs wrapped in newspaper in a box,. hope they aren't stale,..

The pump is 5068 green tag,. i am loathed to part with it,..and as soon as i try and price/ source one, the mere mention of 5068 and the prices get silly,..
I will look at the drain/back air in fuel idea too,..i did have a loose hose at the filter which i tightened up but it made no difference,.

I changed out the original pump when it failed completely, and ran this 5068 with a 5521 chip,. it ran great but tps was out of sync and the trans was shifting way too early,.http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=39970,.
I then was given a bastard chip that we couldn't identify, it was always very twitchy to drive just off idle, which i put down to having done an optical bump,.
Last year i ordered a custom chip set to my specs,.longer glow times, better shift points, earlier lockup,. and it runs very strong now and shifts great,.

Truck is just a grocery getter,. very rarely works hard,.but can put out big boost when hammered,.
I do notice more black smoke than i used to get,. so that is an indication of poor atomization i think?
But having said that i can over fuel more than what the turbo can handle,.

These quick heat glow plugs,. do they last with extended glow times? can a canadian guy get a deal on them anywhere?

[convert2diesel]

Nick, just some extra thoughts. If I remember correctly, you removed the sock from the tank some time ago and installed a line filter before the lift pump. Could that be plugged up? Also have you checked the lift pump output?

If in fact everything points to IP and injectors, the local Stanadyne dealer here will bench test the whole mess for about 1 1/2 hours labour. Would certainly remove any speculation.

As far as glows, I have never had an issue with the good old 60Gs.

Bill

[phantom309]

how interesting,... the pmd crapped out on the way home tonite,. i have a spare under the hood on a long cable just in case,. so it was a 2 minute delay,.
It gave two big fishbites about a minute apart, cruising at 65mph,.then just shut off climbing a hill,.

i think this truck is just about used up,...jeeez,.
but i still love the damn ol piece of junk,..

[Nessmuk]

As long as your giving a manual pump lubrication, I think that's all you can do.

[Nessmuk]

Manual pump install possible? More dependable, if your smog laws allow it.

[phantom309]

yesterday,. i switched out the injectors,. they didn't have any identifying marks on them,. i think they were fleabay cheapies i had bought waaay back when,.,.the new ones all say bosch on them,.,i soaked them in diesel before installing,. and saw lots of air bubbles come out the return line ports,. i also put in 4 more 60g glow plugs. the gm3 turbo got ditched for my modified gm8,.
when first starting the truck it fired and rattled really loudly,.like it had waay too much advance but was defintinely firing on all 8,. after maybe 20 seconds it really quieted done and sounded nice. Motor is very smooth now, and drives the same with much less throttle,..
This morning the temps were only -4c here and it fired off really well and was not plugged in,..
All pretty obvious stuff,. new glows new injectors,.new fuel filter cleaned the air filter, truck runs really good for an old huffer,.
I can still over fuel the turbo,. i,d like to add the bigger HX40 II,. see if i could get a clean burn with wot,.
These old piles of junk really are fun,. and make you sentimental about them somehow,.

[phantom309]

the damn truck had a fuel leak all week,. and with a flashlight and a mirror i could see it was running down the pass side #3 injector , (of course the most ignorant one)
I pulled the turbo off,. ran the oil feed back into the oil fill tube and fired it up,. definitely number 3 pass side leaking ,. pulled the injector out, pulled it apart and cleaned everything, put it back together and then found the real problem,.
My young fella helped with the job,. and he used some needle nose pliers to install the return hoses,. and he made a hole in the rubber inside, but didn't compromise the outer fabric covering,. so it dribbled down the injector body down the block and washed the starter,.aaaargh!
I cut some off, pushed it on , then fired it up with the turbo off, and no leaks,.
why is it always the pass side glow plugs that quit,. or the pass side return lines,.. ??
now to fix the damn crossover that i tried to tighten up and bust a stud,.
fun never ends,.