HowieE: Propane Assist Question

[rjschoolcraft]

HowieE:

How do you like the propane assist? I read a while back about how you hooked it up, but I wondered what your impression is now that you've used it a while. What kind of power boost do you get? Thanks in advance.

[HowieE]

Ronniejoe

As you recall my propane assist is a home made system. I am useing the propane bottles on my 35 ft. trailer with a second regulator and selinoid on the trailer. In the truck I have a selinoid just short of the air filter were the propane is injected and a pushbutton on the center console that controls the system. The reason for 2 selinoids is safty in general and to reduce hose lag after the first usage.
Now as to how I like it. I only use the propane while pulling a hill, passing, or when a Dodge is trying to pass me. Short steep hills that would normaly drop my road speed quite quickly and cause a downshift or a convertor unlock I can now hold original road speed for the most part. Longer hills over 5% grade like those in the Rockies I find it is better to reduce a gear or 2 and just climb. This is because I do see an exhaust gas temperature rise if I use the propane for a longer time under load.
I can deffinately notice when the propane comes on. The effect is something short of a trans kickdown but still clearly felt in the seat of my pants.
The propane I am supplying to the engine is limited by the size of the orfice in the regulator. This was a design mistake. I should have used a regulator that would have had a higher flow rate and regulated flow volume with a needle valve after the regulator. However I may have locked out because I have been told if you over propane the engine and get up in the area where you start to hear rattle you are hammering the wrist pin bushings. Time will tell.
The whole project could be done for just over $100.00 even with the right regulator.
If you want a picture or 2 let me know.

[Hubert]

I am curious about propane injection. I have read it helps to complete combustion and gives approximately 30 HP gain.

From this thread I think its an occasional boost for hills ?? Or can you use it all the time for mpg increase say highway cruising or ordinary driving?

I assume it would high idle and/or be dependant on fuel demand or something. Can you run it continuously with low flow for MPG?

Home made, Bully Dog, or MSD systems? I saw an ad for MSD system $$$$ for the 6.6. It looked computerized for all around driving.

[Aryeh Levy]

Is there one source for propane hose with 1/4" NPT fittings, flashback preventer, and adjustable regulator?

I'd like to get all those from one source for my install.

[TJ]

I run the Powershot 2000 on my Banks 6.5L in my 85 1/2 ton truck. It works very well and adds a noticeable increase in mileage and a nice power increase. I'd certainly recommend it.

TJ

[DChristie]

Greetings,

HowieE has the right idea.
Propane is best as a temporary boost only. Sure, it can be run all the time but it won't increase mileage beyond the added fuel input. You have to figure in the cost of the added fuel.
I just returned from an inspection set in Wyoming, oil patch diesel generators, emmissions checks.
Some generators were on straight diesel, some were on gas supplement.
The gas (propane or natural) as it it currently configured, displaces oxygen resulting in less complete combustion. MORE power but still incomplete combustion. Diesel is still injected at the same rate and burned at the same rate. Plus more and different fuel is in the equation too.
The emmissions testor didn't lie, it was incomplete combustion...

All that, poorly written as it is, to say "do a gas supplement for more power, but don't lie to yourself, mileage can't be increased BC more fuel is being added."
MPG= miles per total gallon of fuel

Please don't burn me at the stake for pointing this out :rolleyes:

DChristie

[Hubert]

I am not burning you at the stake. I am thinking more mile per dollar. Or dollar per mile what ever you want to figure. And the range of a tank of fuel.

Just thinking for now I have been curious about it especially since Katrina.

[jjgmc96]

i am thinking along the same line of dollars per mile. diesel here 2.89, propane 1.59.

[markrinker]

So far, I have not found anyone on the DP successful in using propane to decrease cost/mile - only to add pulling power, which it is good for.

However, thats not to say that it can't be done - especially with the increased gap between the cost of diesel and propane, although both will tend to move in unison according to my local supplier.

Another interesting technology is the ability to take low pressure natural gas and compress it. Our local natural gas supplier is burning compressed natural gas in their gasoline fleet trucks.

I would like to use the MSD unit to more carefully introduce small amounts of propane during peak fuel useage - towing/high boost/etc.
The advantage being that it monitors ECM parameters.

I think the holy grail will be a chip or fuel map programmed in combination with the MSD (or similar) unit that intoduces more boost at the same time, and cuts diesel fuel, yielding a much higher propane to diesel ratio than current systems employ.

Just a theory, but one I intend to experiment with if diesel continues its trek over $3.00 per gallon.

[Aryeh Levy]

Originally posted by HowieE:
Ronniejoe

As you recall my propane assist is a home made system. I am useing the propane bottles on my 35 ft. trailer with a second regulator and selinoid on the trailer. In the truck I have a selinoid just short of the air filter were the propane is injected and a pushbutton on the center console that controls the system. The reason for 2 selinoids is safty in general and to reduce hose lag after the first usage.
Now as to how I like it. I only use the propane while pulling a hill, passing, or when a Dodge is trying to pass me. Short steep hills that would normaly drop my road speed quite quickly and cause a downshift or a convertor unlock I can now hold original road speed for the most part. Longer hills over 5% grade like those in the Rockies I find it is better to reduce a gear or 2 and just climb. This is because I do see an exhaust gas temperature rise if I use the propane for a longer time under load.
I can deffinately notice when the propane comes on. The effect is something short of a trans kickdown but still clearly felt in the seat of my pants.
The propane I am supplying to the engine is limited by the size of the orfice in the regulator. This was a design mistake. I should have used a regulator that would have had a higher flow rate and regulated flow volume with a needle valve after the regulator. However I may have locked out because I have been told if you over propane the engine and get up in the area where you start to hear rattle you are hammering the wrist pin bushings. Time will tell.
The whole project could be done for just over $100.00 even with the right regulator.
If you want a picture or 2 let me know. HowieE

Did you go to multiple places to get your parts?


The best place I've seen is
http://www.protanksupply.com/
They've got adjustable regulator 0-15 psi
Propane Tanks
and propane hose for what seem to be reasonable prices
but finding 12 volt normally off solenoids or other type of valve, high or low pressure, all i found are $60+

that seems high, for a switch; a lot of websites say ~$30 is normal. cant find it.

Any better sources?

but no solenoids

[Aryeh Levy]

The cheapest folks i found were
http://www.propane-generators.com/

And they use the brand name IMPCO shutoffs.

I'm going to contact them for a myself. It should be ~$100-$120 for all the parts i want for my install. (provide in cab switch, wire myself)

20' of hose properly fit (3 or 4 pieces) in pieces to tie to propane tank shutoffs etc together, flashback arrestor, manual shutoff valve, and adjustable regulator 0-12psi.

[markrinker]

Questions for homemade system makers:

1) How do you keep liquid propane from finding its way into the intake?

2) If your design works during the summer, what happens in the winter?

[Aryeh Levy]

Originally posted by Mark Rinker:
Questions for homemade system makers:

1) How do you keep liquid propane from finding its way into the intake?

2) If your design works during the summer, what happens in the winter? You've got vapor hose running from the tank, and a gaseous vapor regulator. It's not like a car system where there is liquid propane running in the hose.

Which brings the mutual answer:

The propane regulator prevents pressure from rising in the after regulator hose.

So say you set the after regulator hose to 2-3 psi.

As long as the pressure from the tank is above 2-3 psi (30 below F), there should be no problem.

At 30 below F, you should be having other issues r/e running a diesel vehicle anyway.

a good home setup will have an adjustable propane regulator. Say 0-5 psi or 0-15 psi. Even if its a cheap regulator that varies line pressure based on a fraction of tank pressure (i don't think they're set up that way)
you can easily enough turn it up or down as the need arises.
Personally, i think it would be great for range to run on the highway with the diesel piloting enough to ignite the propane, and then the propane providing most of the highway power.

Ideally You'd run your on/off switch for your propane system through both your oil pressure relay, and your idle circuit (where exactly is that?) so propane is there all the time if you like, but only when engine is running (no boom) and not wasting it at idle.

It's not for too much power, but a few extra HP doesn't hurt, and a little extra range when you need it.

[NH2112]

Originally posted by Mark Rinker:
Questions for homemade system makers:

1) How do you keep liquid propane from finding its way into the intake?

2) If your design works during the summer, what happens in the winter? 1) Use a vapor withdrawal tank, this also allows you to get rid of the vaporizer and its associated coolant lines.

2) Propane vaporizes at -42F at atmospheric pressure, in cold weather propane-powered machines are harder to start which is why a liquid withdrawal system, IMO, is better - engine coolant is used to warm the liquid propane and vaporize it. In any case, you won't be using the propane on a cold engine so as long as wintertime temps don't get too close to -42F using a vapor withdrawal system on a warm engine shouldn't be a problem.

[NH2112]

Originally posted by Aryeh Levy:

Personally, i think it would be great for range to run on the highway with the diesel piloting enough to ignite the propane, and then the propane providing most of the highway power.

[/QB]Propane has far fewer BTU/gallon than diesel (about 20-25% fewer, IIRC) so using it as your main source of highway power is going to be more expensive than simply using it as a means to completely burn more of the injected diesel fuel. A typical 33lb propane tank for a forklift with a small engine (3.0l GM, 2.2l Mazda, etc) only lasts about 1 8-hour day. But, propane does burn cleaner than gasoline or diesel.

[restoguy]

In response to the question about using propane on a constant basis, I thought I'd share the following. There is a company called Welsh Technologies that sells a propane kit to do just that. They claim that it does help mileage. It has two basic metering rates, one for idle and one for off idle. Lots of people make ridiculoius claims about 'pie in the sky' products just hoping to dupe a few sucker into buying one. But I can't say for sure on this. The previous argument about oil field testing is a good one, but I'm still.....hopeful. I talked to a couple guys who owned this contraption from Welsh Tech. and one said he didn't use it enough to know before he took it off and traded vehicles. The other said he didn't know if it helped the mileage of his PowerBroke or not because he couldn't keep his foot out of it. He was having too much fun with the added power. I'm one of those stubborn ones who has to lose his own money on something before he'll believe it!! I don't know, just my two cents.