Dreaded starter bolts

[slicer89]

Well one of the starter bolts broke off in my block last night... Thankfully it was only one that did.

Wondering what's the best and easiest way to get them out?

And what size are the OEM bolts? and would it be a better idea to get a stronger bolt? Already got the bracket ordered.

Anyone have pictures of how the starter bracket is supposed to be mounted?

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
Get the truck so that you can have as easy access to the bolt area as possible.
Clean everything up good if it greasy
Use a sharp center punch to punch mark the center of the broken bolt
Get a good sharp left hand drill bit (3/16 I think) and reversible drill and drill it out.
MOST of the time it will come right out as soon as your bit bites into it.
This is the method I have had the best luck with.

Replace the bolt with OEM NEW bolts(no parts store cheapy stuff)
TORQUE them with a torque wrench.
After about a week of starting retorque them. Periodically check them.

The bracket will only go on one way. There are TWO different brackets though. One for standard starter and one for gear reduction starter. The bracket can be a PITA to get on and tight.

Hope this helps!
Good luck!

[Robyn]

Hi

Sorry to hear of your mishap :(

Carefully drill a hole in the existing bolt as close to center as possible

finish up at 1/4" diameter hole

Use a square type drive in easy out and unscrew the broken end.

These bolts are special knurled shank bolts for the job.

The reason these break (usually) is the absence of the forward bracket that attaches to the starter and the block at the forward most point of the starter.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=38598

Here is some info on the starter bracket

DO NOT be tempted to use bolts other than the factory knurled shank bolts

These are designed to fit snug in the hole and provide plenty of strength.

The little bracket is what saves the entire program.

The little hole on the end with the slightly rounded spot goes over the stud on the top forward facing part of the starter, and the bracket lays UP the side of the block and fastens to the block with the one bolt.

METRIC BOLTS ARE USED HERE

Good luck

Missy

[slicer89]

Howdy
Get the truck so that you can have as easy access to the bolt area as possible.
Clean everything up good if it greasy
Use a sharp center punch to punch mark the center of the broken bolt
Get a good sharp left hand drill bit (3/16 I think) and reversible drill and drill it out.
MOST of the time it will come right out as soon as your bit bites into it.
This is the method I have had the best luck with.

Replace the bolt with OEM NEW bolts(no parts store cheapy stuff)
TORQUE them with a torque wrench.
After about a week of starting retorque them. Periodically check them.

The bracket will only go on one way. There are TWO different brackets though. One for standard starter and one for gear reduction starter. The bracket can be a PITA to get on and tight.

Hope this helps!
Good luck!


Well, It looks like the bracket is still attached to the starter, but wasn't attached to the block. There is no stud coming out of the block, It looks like a bolt of some sort might fit in there.

[Dvldog8793]

Yes it is a bolt that goes into the block.

[slicer89]

Yes it is a bolt that goes into the block.

Any idea what size / thread? So I can go pick one up... Or would that be another you recommend is OEM

[56pan]

Just put a starter on my '93 6.5 but don't remember the metric bolt size of that one that holds the bracket to the block. But thought I'd pass on that it's a lot easier to deal with that bracket if you remove the left front wheel and inner fender housing.

[slicer89]

Okay, Weird issues - I got the one bolt that broke out.. but the other whole isn't threaded at all, there doesn't appear to be anything broke off in the block on the other hole either.

The starter, on the other hand has one of the holes threaded. No idea why or if it's supposed to be like that

Are both holes in the block supposed to be threaded and have a bolt in them? or is there supposed to be a stud on the starter that fits into one of the holes and that's why it isn't threaded?

[DmaxMaverick]

It's been repaired before, in some manor. The missing threads are more likely a thread repair, and the coil may be deeper than what you can see. I don't know why the starter housing would be threaded, but I suspect it's just from a bolt that was threaded in with the weight of the starter hanging on it. It isn't uncommon to use a stud in a repaired thread, to gain clamping force while minimizing stress on the repaired thread.

[slicer89]

It's been repaired before, in some manor. The missing threads are more likely a thread repair, and the coil may be deeper than what you can see. I don't know why the starter housing would be threaded, but I suspect it's just from a bolt that was threaded in with the weight of the starter hanging on it. It isn't uncommon to use a stud in a repaired thread, to gain clamping force while minimizing stress on the repaired thread.

Well, I tried drilling what, if anything was in the hole and nothing came out... so if it's in there, it's in there good. I can't afford to pay a shop to do it, I barely was able to afford the tools I got to try to fix it (Work is slowing down due to summer ending)

So I just put it the way it was when I first got it, but this time the brace on the block is attached.

[Robyn]

The threads are recessed into the hole about 1/2 inch and the first part is without threads.

The knurled portion of the bolt shank goes into the area that does not have threads right at the surface of the block. This allows the bolt to have a much tighter fit in the block and resist movement side to side.

Did you try screwing the bolt into the hole ??

[Dvldog8793]

If you only have one bolt in the starter...I would not use it at all! You are asking for a broken block or at the least, a broken starter. DO NOT TRY TO start it with only one bolt....:eek:

Two of the more popular methods of thread repair would be helicoil or keensert. Both of those require threading the hole to accept an insert. Not sure what would have been done if your hole has NO threads. Check to make sure that the depth of the hole is the same as other one. I think you have a bolt broke off inside deep enough so that the threads are not visible but the hole is. measure the depth of the hole. It should be clean for about the first 3/4 and then the threads start.
If this is the out side hole...I think it is possible that someone could have drilled out the threads and tried to through-bolt it with a nut. Not really a good idea....
The only other option would be that some one had a bolt hole strip out and then thought to "fix" it by using a hardened bolt and locktite or JB weld:rolleyes:. When the hard bolt starts to rattle around in the hole it is possible for it to clean out the rest of the old banged up threads and make it look like a clean hole. I have seen this done to the same hole a couple times and by the time its all over, you really have to look hard to see any threads. This would also explain what appears to be threads in the starter. Those "threads" could be where the bolt had been rattling and banging into the housing leaving impressions that would appear to be threads.

Hope this helps!

[Dvldog8793]

One other thing.....
If there is a bolt broke off in that hole right at the threads....AND someone along the way "fixed" it by using RED locktite...:mad: then you might have an issue removing that piece. RED locktite is some evil stuff that really should be classified as controlled substance! As a gunsmith I have seen people wreck allot things with that stuff...
IF that is the case, you either need to heat it to about 450*(difficult to do) or drill it out completely and use a helicoil repair kit. This can be tough because you need to maintain the interference fit with the knurling of the bolts.

[slicer89]

Guess I'll just have to put it in the shop, I don't have the tools, time or place to do any of this. I had to do the bolts out in the damn street and if my truck sits there too long, I will get fines and eventually it will get towed.

[svcattle]

Well one of the starter bolts broke off in my block last night... Thankfully it was only one that did.

Wondering what's the best and easiest way to get them out?

And what size are the OEM bolts? and would it be a better idea to get a stronger bolt? Already got the bracket ordered.

Anyone have pictures of how the starter bracket is supposed to be mounted?
Here's the last one I did