6.5 questions-install into 1985 K10

[1967KaiserM715]

Hi all, First post, please bear with me.

I have a 1985 GMC K10, currently has a 305 V8, 700R4, NP208

I am looking at picking up a 1997 Chevy K3500, with 6.5/4L80E combo

What I have been searching for(with minimal luck), is how much electronics would I need to install the 6.5 in the '85? Is it better to convert to MFI, or can I get by and reuse some of the wiring in the '97 to run the engine?

most things I find have been relating to keeping the tranny, which I don't plan to do-which has made it very difficult to find information-3 nights of searching, so I finally decided to register so I can post and ask

my build plan is 6.5, SM465, NP208, Truck doesn't have A/C(I am aware of turbo location)- I have read all I need is the flywheel and it(flywheel) should bolt up, if this is incorrect please let me know- I know some engines must have flywheel match-balanced to flex-plate in order to mount.

Thanks all

[DmaxMaverick]

Welcome aboard!

I would suggest MFI. EFI would require a complete wire harness replacement, as well as a PCM compatible with your tranny. If you MFI, the existing wiring will be almost all you need. Add the glow plug circuit (keep it simple) and instrumentation and be done with electrical. What remains will be fuel system related, which will be similar, either way. The 3500 engine will have no smog equipment to work with/around. Other minor stuff will be simple.

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
MFI all the way.
Locating some of the parts can be a pain but well worth it.
Electronics will be minimal. Like dmax said...keep it simple. Should only NEED glow, fuel, and heavier dual battery start/charge circuits. Make sure you install new heavy starter cables. Make sure your starter have the small bracket in front and the heat shield.
Replace the glow plugs(AC60g or Quick heats) while the engine is out. if the injectors have high miles maybe replace them as well.
Hope this helps

[1967KaiserM715]

Ok, I do need to try and get the truck going(before winter), and have been looking for a usable diesel that won't blow the budget, then I found this one, going to look at the donor truck tomorrow(will be getting whole truck)

I have been searching(although without much luck) for mechanical injection components

so is it still possible to run just the engine as is for right now- I realize I would need to use the skinny pedal being it has the APP? throttle, what else would be needed? Not using the 4L80E tranny, will be using an SM465-so I wouldn't need anything there, right?

How does the electronic Injection pump work? Does it just take input from the pedal?

sorry for all the questions, my search ability has apparently failed-I can find a lot of threads that reference it, but non that seem to get into the how/why of it all-and I can't seem to locate the wiring diagrams I found last night,

thanks for helping a newb

[DmaxMaverick]

EFI is much more complicated than "just" that. The APP is connected to and monitored by the PCM. The APP does not, directly, have any input to the IP. The IP reports data to the PCM. Various sensors/senders report data to the PCM. The PCM controlls the IP. Your current harness is not compatible with all this.

[1967KaiserM715]

EFI is much more complicated than "just" that. The APP is connected to and monitored by the PCM. The APP does not, directly, have any input to the IP. The IP reports data to the PCM. Various sensors/senders report data to the PCM. The PCM controlls the IP. Your current harness is not compatible with all this.

OK, thanks, knew it had to be more involved

So I still haven't been able to search it out, and since I didn't click the link, history won't have it. but I think it was on these forums that a wiring diagram for the trucks and 6.5 was posted somewhere. am I correct? or was it another forum I saw it?

[a5150nut]

I don't think your going to like the SM465 it a 4 gear box no overdrive. If your going on the highway you'll need a 5th gear.

What are your plans for your truck?

[1967KaiserM715]

I don't think your going to like the SM465 it a 4 gear box no overdrive. If your going on the highway you'll need a 5th gear.

What are your plans for your truck?

Daily Driver, the 4-speed is just temporary, I will eventually upgrade to the NV4500 when I get the money. 95% of my driving is under 45mph, and using gear ratio calculators, I would be doing about 2100rpms at 55, which I think is acceptable for a diesel, maybe not ideal, but acceptable, especially at 5% of engine use-thought long and hard about that cause I really wanted diesel, but I wanted manual more

my fastest vehicle to date is my jeep Cherokee, and it don't like to get above 65, and in the two years I've owned it I've only gone that fast twice-I've done several 55mph trips though

[arveetek]

Definitely go the MFI route. Most of us with the electronic DS4 pumps dream of swapping them out for the older mechanical DB2 pumps anyway. I would never dream of trying to swap in a DS4 pump into an older rig.

There should be tons of DB2 pumps out there. All GM diesels from 1982 to 1993 had mechanical pumps, and lots of vans and military vehicles had mechanical pumps even after that.

The SM465 is a good tranny, but with no overdrive, it does get old after a while. I had an 86 K10 that was a factory 6.2L with the SM465, and I got tired of the high revving after a while. While that is an easy swap, I would lean towards the NV4500 in order to get the overdrive. Or keep your 700R4. I loved my 700R4 behind my 6.2L that I had swapped into an 81 C20....

Casey

[trbankii]

As others are saying, I’d really be looking for a ’92 or ’93 MFI truck as a donor for what you’re wanting to do. You can certainly swap the EFI engines, but you’re basically looking at pulling the wiring harness, computer, and such out and swapping it into your truck too. It isn’t something you can jury rig to get by for now and also not something you necessarily want to be trying for the first time when you have a deadline.

[1967KaiserM715]

Oh, I wouldn't try to jury rig at all, I would go the whole nine yards and swap the harness and everything, the front fenders and grille would be off, redoing brake lines and cleaning the frame as of right now. and the interior is stripped too, repairing drivers floor

so(and arveetek seemed to confirm) but ideally a 4911 pump would be the pump of choice, but any db2 pump would work? I can find junk engines all the time for the 6.2, and if I turn the fuel way up I should be able to keep it safe, right? I would definitely install a pyro/egt meter to keep tabs on the engine.

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
My neighbor is a salvage yard:D. A couple years ago he was going to convert to a DB2. He pulled all the stuff from an appropriate truck and had it in a pile since then. I know he is not going to the swap so I will check and see if he still has everything. If so I will put you in contact with him. Worst case is that I know he has several DB2 trucks in the yard and could maybe be talked into($) pulling the right parts for you.
Like everyone is saying the best route is to try to find the right truck and do the swap.
I will post again if he still has the parts.

[trbankii]

Oh, I wouldn't try to jury rig at all, I would go the whole nine yards and swap the harness and everything

I was referring to the point you said “so is it still possible to run just the engine as is for right now?” It’s sort of an all-or-nothing situation.


Howdy
My neighbor is a salvage yard:D. A couple years ago he was going to convert to a DB2. He pulled all the stuff from an appropriate truck and had it in a pile since then. I know he is not going to the swap so I will check and see if he still has everything. If so I will put you in contact with him.

If Kaiser isn’t interested, I would be - I’m already thinking about a MFI and NV4500 swap for the ’94 Yukon I just got.

[DmaxMaverick]

While any DB2 pump will work, they are not all the same. The 4911 pump was designed for the 6.5TD, while previous pumps were designed for N/A engines. Earlier N/A pumps can be turned up, and will work, but they are not designed for the higher pressure and volume of 6.5L injectors. The injector lines are also different, depending on heads, injectors and pump series. All of the DB/DS pumps will bolt to any 6.2/6.5 engine, universally. Military pumps are also an option (desired), only needing solenoid swap.

[1967KaiserM715]

Howdy
My neighbor is a salvage yard:D. A couple years ago he was going to convert to a DB2. He pulled all the stuff from an appropriate truck and had it in a pile since then. I know he is not going to the swap so I will check and see if he still has everything. If so I will put you in contact with him. Worst case is that I know he has several DB2 trucks in the yard and could maybe be talked into($) pulling the right parts for you.
Like everyone is saying the best route is to try to find the right truck and do the swap.
I will post again if he still has the parts.

I am definitely interested, I have my brother going through a trucking company that pulls these engines from busses and heavy contract trucks to see what they can do.

I did pick up the truck, started and ran nice(except no crossover tube, so loud) good oil pressure, no noticeable shaft play in turbo, 131xxx on the odometer, 126xxx was from local fire dept

problem that I have had trying to find the engine I want is lack of them, or they have other issues, namely the last 2 6.2 diesels I looked at definitely had a rod knock, and terrible oil pressure.

lastly, my brother wants a whole bunch of parts from this rig, so I'll have pretty much gotten the engine for zilch all said and done

[Robyn]

Having owned several 6.2/6.5 powered rigs, my advice is STAY AS FAR AWAY FROM THE ELECTRONIC PUMP AS YOU CAN GET.

If one gets close, throw a box over it quick, then run away fast so it does not follow you home.

As Maverick mentioned, the 4911 is the pump of choice for a 6.5.

One of these and the compatible line set and injectors will do great.

Be sure you don't try and swap in the injectors from an engine that had an electronic pump.

These injectors pop at a higher pressure and the 4911 will not like it.

However the injectors can be rebuilt and the pop pressure dropped down to a level that the 4911 will be happy with.

As far as the tranny goes, the 700R CAN be upgraded to handle a 6.5.

For any heavy service though the 4 or 5 speed will live longer.

Upgrading a 700R to handle heavy service is a $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ intensive proposition.

If you set this rig up with the turbo you will definitely need a tough tranny.


Good luck

Robyn

[1967KaiserM715]

Be sure you don't try and swap in the injectors from an engine that had an electronic pump.

These injectors pop at a higher pressure and the 4911 will not like it.

However the injectors can be rebuilt and the pop pressure dropped down to a level that the 4911 will be happy with.



what is the pop pressure for electionic vs. mechanical? all I have found is "universal" injectors, meaning no-one seems to differentiate between the pumps and some don't even differentiate between the 6.2(I know there has to be a difference there, almost all Turbo injectors should pop higher then a NA injector)

[DmaxMaverick]

Don't worry about the injectors, with a 4911 pump. It's fine with higher 6.5TD pressure injectors, as it was designed. Same with the late military pumps. Earlier 6.2 pumps will be tried, but they will still work fine, just not as long. The 4911 pump is rated for 2200 PSI, in original form. I've run them up to 2400 PSI with no problems, what so ever (well beyond OEM, mil-spec, and "marine" spec.).

[1967KaiserM715]

so still can't find a suitable pump(the 4911), most of the rebuild shops want over $1,000 for a pump, including core charge, which is a little out of my price range right now.


I seem to have found a DB2 5436, only application I see is 1994 6.5L P and G chassis, 170 HP, would this work alright? I would turn up fuel, but I'm not looking to make power anyways(my Cherokee makes 190, but sucks, my 125 hp Mercedes diesel had better pickup than that P.O.S.)


thanks guys, I miss not having a diesel vehicle