93 6.5 Turbo - No boost / turbo?

[slicer89]

I recently bought a 93 GMC Sierra K2500... It has the 6.5 Litre Detroit (?) Diesel 6.5 turbo engine.

I'm pretty sure my turbo isn't working, When I step on it.. It smokes black smoke... and I do not hear the turbo at all. I've ridden in a friends STOCK 94 with the same engine and I could hear it's turbo quite well. It had stock muffler, and stock filter.. No mods other than a leveling kit and stereo.

I noticed today that the waste gate (?) isn't connected to anything. Would this be why it isn't making boost or noise?

I also noticed theres a black thing ontop of the engine behind the intake manifold that appears to be not connected to anything either. I am new to diesels and this is my first diesel truck. Any advice would be appreciated.

Waste gate:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/punkrobot/IMG_20150529_165148_zpsomknnbx2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/punkrobot/media/IMG_20150529_165148_zpsomknnbx2.jpg.html)


Other thing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/punkrobot/IMG_20150529_165155_zpsugnlugzj.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/punkrobot/media/IMG_20150529_165155_zpsugnlugzj.jpg.html)

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
Welcome To diesel page!
The waist gate actuator is exactly what picture one is. It should hooked up to a vac line that goes to a small box on the back of driver side valve cover. That box should have a wire connection and another vac line that goes to the vac pump. The vac pump is a belt driven accessory and shoul be located down on the bottom passenger side. The vac lines have a tendency to get brittle over time. That could be your problem.

The other picture is of the fuel filter. The little fitting on the top is just bleed valve. When you replace the fuel filter you can attach a line to it and open it up to bleed air out of the filter while it fills.

Edit-I just saw that your truck is a 93, that might have a different vac system than what I described. I am sure someone will jump in if I am wrong

Hope this helps!
Good luck!

[a5150nut]

First pic is waste gate actuator and should have vacuum line from it to control valve on left valve cover. There should be another vacuum line from control valve to vacuum pump. Original vacuum lines were a hard plastic and prone to breaking. you could use brake tubing and short pieces of vacuum line for connectors. Both lines ran in front of air plenum then back to control valve.

Second pic is air bleed on fuel filter nothing should be connected here.

[slicer89]

Howdy
Welcome To diesel page!
The waist gate actuator is exactly what picture one is. It should hooked up to a vac line that goes to a small box on the back of driver side valve cover. That box should have a wire connection and another vac line that goes to the vac pump. The vac pump is a belt driven accessory and shoul be located down on the bottom passenger side. The vac lines have a tendency to get brittle over time. That could be your problem.

The other picture is of the fuel filter. The little fitting on the top is just bleed valve. When you replace the fuel filter you can attach a line to it and open it up to bleed air out of the filter while it fills.

Edit-I just saw that your truck is a 93, that might have a different vac system than what I described. I am sure someone will jump in if I am wrong

Hope this helps!
Good luck!


It does a bunch! Thanks!

Now if that's reconnected and done right.. Should I see ANY improve in performance and economy?

Also what about turbo whistle / noise? I know these are low-pressure turbos, and generally not loud... But as I've said, I rode in a friends STOCK 94 and I could hear it... Not LOUD, but could hear it.

[slicer89]

Well.. I don't know what to think.

I went outside and looked real quick, there isn't anything on the back of either valve cover. Closest thing is the glow plug control solenoid.

Can anyone maybe show a picture of where it is, or what it looks like?

[john8662]

1993's do not have vacuum operated wastegate controller.

The wastegate on the side of the turbo is supposed to be a spring pot.

What someone did was replace your turbo with a 1994-1995 turbo.

I think the most straight forward way for you to fix this on this truck is to buy a spring adjustable turbomaster and adjust your boost this way.

You can get one from Kennedy Diesel:

http://www.kennedydiesel.com/categoryresults2.cfm?Category=1&SubCategory=190

[Robyn]

Exactly

92-93 had a spring device

The turbo master is the ticket.

Wind the adjustment to get about 10 psi boost and your good.

Really need a pyro and a boost gauge

[slicer89]

1993's do not have vacuum operated wastegate controller.

The wastegate on the side of the turbo is supposed to be a spring pot.

What someone did was replace your turbo with a 1994-1995 turbo.

I think the most straight forward way for you to fix this on this truck is to buy a spring adjustable turbomaster and adjust your boost this way.

You can get one from Kennedy Diesel:

http://www.kennedydiesel.com/categoryresults2.cfm?Category=1&SubCategory=190


Is there anything I can do in the mean time to get the turbo to build boost until I can afford the wastegate you posted

[DmaxMaverick]

Is there anything I can do in the mean time to get the turbo to build boost until I can afford the wastegate you posted

You can wire the WG closed, but you risk catastrophic engine damage w/o EGT and boost gauges to determine when you are at max.

[slicer89]

You can wire the WG closed, but you risk catastrophic engine damage w/o EGT and boost gauges to determine when you are at max.


What about halfway? I guess I'll just have to wait until I can afford the controller.

Just sucks.. Was looking forward to hearing the turbo whistle!

[DmaxMaverick]

What about halfway? I guess I'll just have to wait until I can afford the controller.

Just sucks.. Was looking forward to hearing the turbo whistle!

Open is open, closed is closed. Not much in between. If it's open, at all, the turbo will spin, but not spool (develop charge air pressure), and will eventually destroy the WG if open only a little, continuously. Running with too little boost under heavy load will eventually cause other engine damage due to excessive EGT. Sustained black smoke = Bad. Fix the WG control, one way or another. If you don't have EGT and boost gauges, don't mess with it beyond OEM configuration.

Unless you modify the intake and/or the exhaust, you won't likely hear much turbo whine, if any.

[slicer89]

Open is open, closed is closed. Not much in between. If it's open, at all, the turbo will spin, but not spool (develop charge air pressure), and will eventually destroy the WG if open only a little, continuously. Running with too little boost under heavy load will eventually cause other engine damage due to excessive EGT. Sustained black smoke = Bad. Fix the WG control, one way or another. If you don't have EGT and boost gauges, don't mess with it beyond OEM configuration.

Unless you modify the intake and/or the exhaust, you won't likely hear much turbo whine, if any.


So what should I do until I can afford to get a WG controller?

[DmaxMaverick]

Wire the WG tightly closed, and drive with an egg on the skinny pedal. In other words, don't go anywhere near heavy-loading the engine. If you overboost, it has NO way to protect itself, and you won't know how close you are to the ragged edge w/o the gauges. Absent WG control, the 92-93 models are completely at the mercy of your right foot. Being mechanical, it has no way to actively defuel or dump boost like 94+ EFI models.

[slicer89]

Wire the WG tightly closed, and drive with an egg on the skinny pedal. In other words, don't go anywhere near heavy-loading the engine. If you overboost, it has NO way to protect itself, and you won't know how close you are to the ragged edge w/o the gauges. Absent WG control, the 92-93 models are completely at the mercy of your right foot. Being mechanical, it has no way to actively defuel or dump boost like 94+ EFI models.

How will I know when / if it's closed? I guess default is open? And what would you recommend "wiring" it closed?

[DmaxMaverick]

Default is closed. The WG actuator is spring loaded to hold it closed, and exhaust pressure overcomes that to open it.

I recommend fixing it.

However, if you must, it can be wired closed with mechanic's wire, welding wire, whatever. It doesn't take much, but it should be tight or it will drive you nuts rattling at idle. Not exactly the "turbo sound" you been looking for. If you had a boost gage, you could use a doubled-over screen door spring to hold it closed, and open at a set boost (don't laugh, it works in a pinch - had to put a service truck back in service before parts could be sourced). 15-20 pounds of pull will allow about 7 PSI boost (guestimated, but it worked).

[slicer89]

Default is closed. The WG actuator is spring loaded to hold it closed, and exhaust pressure overcomes that to open it.

I recommend fixing it.

However, if you must, it can be wired closed with mechanic's wire, welding wire, whatever. It doesn't take much, but it should be tight or it will drive you nuts rattling at idle. Not exactly the "turbo sound" you been looking for. If you had a boost gage, you could use a doubled-over screen door spring to hold it closed, and open at a set boost (don't laugh, it works in a pinch - had to put a service truck back in service before parts could be sourced). 15-20 pounds of pull will allow about 7 PSI boost (guestimated, but it worked).


I don't want to go that route, But will have to until funds can become available.... In the mean time I still need to be able to drive my truck.

Where should I put the wire?

[slicer89]

http://www.kennedydiesel.com/detail.cfm?ID=106

So this is the one I need / want?

How hard is it to install?

[john8662]

That's the one you need.

Instructions are included with the TM. When you get it and have questions, give us a shout.

[Dvldog8793]

It is a very easy install. The instructions are simple, make sure to a LOW setting until you can get some gauges.

[slicer89]

Thanks for all the help. Will be ordering one soon.


Also; Is there any special way to wash the engine? It's really dirty as it had a power steering leak a long time ago and was driven on a dirt road for a while.

I've got a 1600 PSI pressure washer.. Just want to know if theres places I should avoid and what kind of cleaner I should use.

[a5150nut]

Simple Green in a weed sprayer and a garden hose not the high pressure washer. Might want to open all weather pack connectors after washing and spray contact cleaner in them and maybe a little dielectric grease to prevent gremlins later.

[slicer89]

Simple Green in a weed sprayer and a garden hose not the high pressure washer. Might want to open all weather pack connectors after washing and spray contact cleaner in them and maybe a little dielectric grease to prevent gremlins later.

Just out of curiosity, Why not pressure? I realize that it can force water where it doesn't belong - But it's mostly the engine block and around the brake booster thats bad.

I've pressure washed plenty of petrol engines before, Even a Toyota Prius and it had no ill effects. I just asked on here because this is the first diesel I've owned.

[trbankii]

I realize that it can force water where it doesn't belong

That pretty much sums it up.

[slicer89]

That pretty much sums it up.

I realize this, but I know to avoid electrical connections and all that. This engine is just grimmy as hell and needs a good cleaning.

[slicer89]

So out of curiosity today, I wired the WG closed and took it for a drive. Didn't feel any different, Still blew black smoke about the same... And didn't sound like the turbo was spooling up.

I don't understand. Maybe the turbo itself is shot? I figured with the WG closed it would build some sort of boost and make SOME noise.

Or are they just seen, but unheard stock?

[DmaxMaverick]

Black smoke = plenty fuel, too little air (O2). If the WG is wired, make sure it is wired in the correct direction. The actuator (spring pod) pulls it to hold closed. If it has spring tension, you should be able to pull against it by pushing away from the pod.

Check the compressor wheel for free movement and clearance. If you remove the compressor inlet, the wheel will be immediately inside. (Engine off) It should spin freely, with no side-play. If it contacts the housing at any point/time, it is bad. If it doesn't spin freely, or takes some effort, it's bad. If any blades are nicked, missing, or uneven with the others, it's bad. With the inlet still removed, idle the engine (for testing purposes ONLY, being VERY careful to not allow in any debris, including fingers). The wheel should spin fairly fast on its own, and you should hear it whir or warble. At engine idle, you should have a noticeable change in sound by changing the position of the WG (it helps to have the pod disconnected).

[slicer89]

Black smoke = plenty fuel, too little air (O2). If the WG is wired, make sure it is wired in the correct direction. The actuator (spring pod) pulls it to hold closed. If it has spring tension, you should be able to pull against it by pushing away from the pod.

Check the compressor wheel for free movement and clearance. If you remove the compressor inlet, the wheel will be immediately inside. (Engine off) It should spin freely, with no side-play. If it contacts the housing at any point/time, it is bad. If it doesn't spin freely, or takes some effort, it's bad. If any blades are nicked, missing, or uneven with the others, it's bad. With the inlet still removed, idle the engine (for testing purposes ONLY, being VERY careful to not allow in any debris, including fingers). The wheel should spin fairly fast on its own, and you should hear it whir or warble. At engine idle, you should have a noticeable change in sound by changing the position of the WG (it helps to have the pod disconnected).

I'll have to double check the WG when I get the chance.

If the turbo is toast, Wheres a place to get a OEM one? I'm not looking to upgrade unless it's a cheaper route and won't involve me having to change major engine components.

[DmaxMaverick]

IF you need a turbo....

It's best to have a turbo rebuilt locally, if you have a reputable shop around. Often, the repair is simple (bearing and seals), not requiring an entire rebuild (retail replacement cost). Otherwise, you can buy one from several TDP Supporters, most auto parts stores, Rockauto, or even a used one for a good price is OK if it works. Turbos are fairly simple. Usually, they either work or they don't, with not much in between.

[slicer89]

IF you need a turbo....

It's best to have a turbo rebuilt locally, if you have a reputable shop around. Often, the repair is simple (bearing and seals), not requiring an entire rebuild (retail replacement cost). Otherwise, you can buy one from several TDP Supporters, most auto parts stores, Rockauto, or even a used one for a good price is OK if it works. Turbos are fairly simple. Usually, they either work or they don't, with not much in between.

So today I got bored and took my exhaust off. Turns out my turbo is working... Well, it's making noise atleast - Though not very loud. Think it's because it isn't spooling correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glwq51AolZs

Theres a clip.

[DmaxMaverick]

Good clip. Sounds very typical (normal). That's about all you'll hear w/o putting a load on. However, that only means it's spinning (that's a good thing). If it has WG issues, it will spin, but not boost.

Get some gages on it and know what you have. Or, throw parts and band-aides at it, and you may still get nowhere. There are still several possible causes to the problem, but certain conditions must be met before further diagnosis is practical. Skipping some because they are inconvenient or too expensive does little/nothing to solve the core problem, and often leads us in the wrong direction. Most common issues are very simple, and most often very inexpensive. Taking the wrong diagnostic direction can sure complicate the hell out of it, and cost a bunch of unnecessary expenses.

As John said before, you started out with the wrong WG actuator/pod. Your truck has no way of controlling it. Start by getting the correct WG control, OEM or aftermarket.

[slicer89]

Good clip. Sounds very typical (normal). That's about all you'll hear w/o putting a load on. However, that only means it's spinning (that's a good thing). If it has WG issues, it will spin, but not boost.

Get some gages on it and know what you have. Or, throw parts and band-aides at it, and you may still get nowhere. There are still several possible causes to the problem, but certain conditions must be met before further diagnosis is practical. Skipping some because they are inconvenient or too expensive does little/nothing to solve the core problem, and often leads us in the wrong direction. Most common issues are very simple, and most often very inexpensive. Taking the wrong diagnostic direction can sure complicate the hell out of it, and cost a bunch of unnecessary expenses.

As John said before, you started out with the wrong WG actuator/pod. Your truck has no way of controlling it. Start by getting the correct WG control, OEM or aftermarket.

I'm gonna do the DIY Turbo master if I can just find out what springs people were using (Spring rates / tension) because I can't justify spending $120 on something I can make myself for cheaper.

It's still smoking pretty badly, So that tells me it's still not generating proper boost... I'm gonna get a boost gauge at some point and a EGT gauge, the EGT thing scares me the most.

[DmaxMaverick]

The DIY WG control is OK. Nothing wrong with that. It isn't rocket science (well, it is, but it isn't complicated). Most of it is trial and error. Spring compression rate is as important as spring weight. Bringing the two together is the hard part, which isn't really that hard. It is what it is. While a wood stove handle spring may work (done that), a valve spring will NOT. Simply, it needs to hold the WG firmly closed until you near release pressure, then it needs to release. We (TDP) actually had an article about this very thing a few years ago.

Gages are simple. The boost gage can be DIY'd. The EGT, not so much. For the boost gage, all that's needed is a sample source, and a gage with a range of about 15-30 PSI. Lower PSI is higher resolution (accuracy), but you will want to make sure it ranges anything you may see. For the 6.5 in most cases, 0-15 is ideal. The EGT/Pyrometer really needs to be specifically designed for just that. 1500 degrees is the range you are working with, but 2000 degree thermocouples are much more durable (they are all delicate). It's a trade, as the 2000 is more expensive.

[a5150nut]

Even a simple vacuum/boost gage will work. I put one on my old truck for testing and it lived in the ash tray for years.