No Oil... Now What

[dsnyder]

Long story short, after doing all the "right upgrades," proper cooling, Heath towing chip, Heath turbo wastegate, new injectors, rebuilt pump, new lift pump, new GM 6.5 motor etc... Going down the highway, the oil line that goes to the oil cooler blew out of the block. I did not notice that oil pressure disappeared until I heard the humming noise. Looked down, no oil pressure. I pulled over but I know the engine suffered mechanical damage. It is in a 1994 Suburban and I spent my money doing it right the first time -except of course the oil line that blew out of the block after the first oil change.. So... I am wondering what recommendations might come from the forum. I am considering having the 6.5 rebuilt but I'm not really finding anyone in Phoenix, Arizona that wants to do it for a reasonable price. I am also open to trying to put in a military 6.2 "take out" engine if all my 6.5 stuff would bolt on and I could run that. What would you folks recommend? Do you know anyone in Phoenix, that could fix my engine? Is the 6.2 military take out a workable option? Any suggestions are appreciated.

[Kennedy]

Have you tried fixing the line refilling, and starting it?

[rustyk]

I agree with Kennedy; there's a possibility the engine is actually fine (although the turbo might not be). Engines can run a surprising distance with 0 oil pressure (If it has pressure to begin with).

[dsnyder]

I have not tried that... It did make noise though before I shut it down so I assumed it cooked a bearing or something.

So fixing the line and adding oil is worth a try? I was at highway speeds when this cooked.

By the way, what causes those lines to pop out? Aren't they screwed in or anything? What is that line called so I can get a replacement?

Thanks for the replies!

Dave

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
Did you shut it off or did it lock up?
Do you remember what the temp gauge said?
What kind of oil did you have in it?
My opinion...
If the engine was fresh and good before hand and it didn't lock up, then I would most definitely fix the line(gotta do that anyway) and fill it with oil and start it up. Let it get warm and if nothing bad happens then drain that oil and go for broke. As stated earlier...the Turbo would be the first thing to cook so that could have been the noise you heard.
The factory oil lines have problems in both ends leaking. Not sure I have ever heard of one blowing out.
I have replaced the factory ones on all my trucks with aftermarket hydraulic lines and standard fittings that do not leak.
Good luck!!!

[john8662]

The OE Lines use a Quick-Connect fitting, the line is clipped into place with a small wire clip to retains the line in the fitting.

These fittings have claimed quite a few engines that I know of.

The best solution would be lines from Leroy Diesel that use screw-in hydraulic fittings and lines with AN fittings.

Another good solution would be DSG's large cooler and line kit as well. This can be had at Kennedy Diesel.

I agree, repair the line and give it a shot, if making noise and the oil pressure is low, then it will be time to assess the damage.

J

[dsnyder]

It did not lock up. I shut it down. The temp gauge usually runs at about 1/4 up (180 degrees) When I shut it off it was a 1/2 (210 degrees) up. It will still turn over with the starter.

The oil was Mobile Delvac 15/40. It was changed the week before this happened.

Did you have your replacement lines custom made or is this something I can buy somewhere on the internet?

[DmaxMaverick]

I agree with the panel. No harm in giving it a try. If it's broke, it'll still be broke. If it isn't, no point in fixing it.

Also, I recommend sourcing a new oil line set (and cooler) from www.kennedydiesel.com or Lubricationspecialist.com. Both are TDP vendors with the products you'll need, now or later.

[rapidoxidationman]

Just curious: Did you go back on the road from the point where you shut it down to where the oil blew out? How far and how fast from the "last drop" did you run?

[dsnyder]

I did not go back but there was oil in my friend's driveway which is where I left from in the middle of the night. So... from driveway to where I stopped... 6 miles of Interstate.. 65mph.

[phantom309]

I also say fix the oil lines and fire it back up and see what its like after 30 secs of running,.

when it lost its oil line,. the lifters would be the first to starve,. which will cause collapsed lifters resulting in a popping sort of noise thru the intake etc,.

fire it up and give it 30 secs or so to sort it self out,.and see what you.ve got,.

If it's catastrophic failure,.
me personally i,d look for another used short block and switch your heads with new gaskets and studs,. etc,.

[Robyn]

Guess I will weigh in.

The panel seems unanimous on this, well I agree as well.

These are a rugged engine with large bearings and can stand some abuse.

The big worry is always the rods/mains

Myself, I would repair the line, refill with oil and fire it up.

The lifters are going to take a few moments to pump up and you will get some popping in the intake during this time, but its no biggy.

If you have access to an oil prime tool (Old 6.2 Vacuum pump with the top cut off and the drive gear teeth removed. a nut welded onto the shaft to turn it)

Hand priming to get oil back into the engine without further DRY running would be preferable.

To do this you must have a converted vacuum pump or the short pump drive to allow oil to flow correctly.

The other option would be to remove the glow plugs, unplug the FUEL SHUT OFF solenoid and spin the engine with the starter.

This will take most of the pressure off the bearings until you get oil flowing.

Once the oil pressure comes up, you can refit the plugs and fire it.

Listen for any odd noises and watch the oil pressure carefully.

Once it warms up the tale will be told.

If the bearings were hurt the oil pressure will fall in the toilet with the thinner warm oil.

Good luck

Missy

[rustyk]

Actually, that run was about ideal; a little known fact is that (within limits), the faster a shaft is spinning, the less oil pressure is needed.

[dsnyder]

OK... Repaired the lines filled with oil and started it up. It runs but it is making noise and there is no oil pressure. The sound is a bit of a screech. If I can figure out how to post it, I can take a video of it running with sound. Would that help?

[Dvldog8793]

Did you prime the oil system?
If you have ZERO oil pressure and it is screeching after more than 10-15 seconds of running.....:mad: not good.
Most likely the screeching noise is metal-on-metal with no oil film and is on it's way to welding itself together.
Could be from the turbo housing or the bearings.

[dsnyder]

How would one prime the oil system?

[Dvldog8793]

See robyn's response to your post....

[dsnyder]

Searching for engine options, I found a 1997 Turbo Diesel Suburban for $3900 here in town. I went and looked at it and it is bone stock, totally cherry... almost like the day it came out of the factory. It does have 179,000 miles on it. I bought it from the second owner who did not know if the previous owner rebuilt the engine. So, it could be the original motor but it runs real nice... very smooth, good power and no funny noises or anything. -Even the paint is good and the AC works!

My plan is to transfer parts over from my 1994 with the bad engine. So, my question is what to transfer over-

Here are the upgrades I did to my 1994-

Upgraded Thermostat/Waterpump
Heath Diesel Wastegage Kit
Heath Diesel Towing Chip
Heath Diesel Lift Pump
Relocated PMD in the front bumper
4" Exhaust
Wrapped larger crossover pipe
Air Shocks

So... My plan is to take everything off the 1994 that I want on my new to me 1997, and install. Of the above, what would you put on a cherry stock unit?

Then, once stripped, I'm going to take out the bad engine and the matched tranny and slowly rebuild it so that when my new engine with 179,000 miles goes out, I'll have one ready to drop in. Then... scrap or donate the 1994. Thoughts???

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
IMHO- I would transfer everything except the cooling system upgrades as your 1997 should already have those. I would also really consider replacing the harmonic balancer and crank pulley. If you don't already have gauges then you should get a post and pyro gauge. Keep your boost levels low and that engine might last longer than you think. If it drives as nice as you say then chances are the PO had the pump and injectors replaced...if not count on doing that soon.
Sounds like you got a good deal and have a good plan.
good luck!

[DmaxMaverick]

To start with, don't fix what ain't broke. Upgrades are OK, but if it currently works, wait to replace parts until they don't work. If the vacuum and WG systems, no need to replace those parts, yet. The OEM system, when working properly, is better. It just costs more to repair than replace with mechanical.

As said, the 97 already has the upgraded water pump and thermostats.

The electronics from the 94 won't work with the 97 (OBD-I vs. OBD-II), but the IP and injectors will. The 97 "chip" will require a recalibrated PCM (it doesn't actually have a "chip", like the 94 does). Relocating the PMD is OK, but not immediately necessary if it works now. I suggest the relocation, but leave the working original on the pump for emergency use. Contrary to common belief (what you read on internet), the VAST majority of GM EFI Diesels never have an issue with the PMD. Some do, which attracts them to the websites. Most go much longer than 179K, only needing glow plugs and injectors. I know of several with 4-500K with no more than regular maintenance items (water pump, fuel pump, glow plugs), that still start/run like new.

[dsnyder]

Will the upgraded exhaust (including crossover pipe) from my 1994 fit on the 1997? Also, I discovered why I got a deal on the 1997... the hydroboost is leaking power steering fluid. Seems like not a big deal to take the hydroboost out of my 1994 and put it in the 1997... or should I try some stop leak? My 1994 has the upgraded power steering with the cooler in front of the radiator so there is a bit of a benefit there. Thoughts?

[Dvldog8793]

All the exhaust should fit.
If you are going to scrap it out, I would take all the parts off that will swap and keep for spares or if they were updated newer and your other rig has issues then it would be a no brainer.
I am not sure if the brake system is the same but the hydraboost should swap out. Same with the PS pump and lines.
Check the u joints and driveshaft condition as those will swap out as well.

[DmaxMaverick]

Your full exhaust system should fit, however, there were a few emission variations that required modification and/or different parts, such as downpipe, hangers, etc. It isn't common, but they come up from time to time. CA models are the most common for this. Try it and see where you are with it.

The hydroboost units, although similar from 1980 to present, had small changes over the years. One major change was for ABS. Your 97 should have full ABS, while the 94 had RWAL (Rear Wheel Anti Lock), at best if it was optioned. You can try it, and if it works it should be good to go. If it doesn't work, the worst you'll have in it is the R/R labor (which is a real downer, since they're such a PITA to R/R, and there are no shortcuts), and you'll need one anyway. You should be able to plumb in the cooler without much headache.