query on front wheel hubs for 1998 K2500 suburban

[mjeremy]

Hello everyone!

Among other things in the process of doing up our suburban, we removed the front tires for cleaning, and having bought new replacement rotors for the front many months back, also looked at replacing the existing rotors. We are now wondering whether it is necessary to also replace or not, the front wheel hubs, though concede we are unsure as to whether this is strictly required or not.
Have done a few searches online to determine how often the hubs might on average require replacement, and views here can vary, perhaps based on a number of factors.

We have had this vehicle for over 18mths, and it has done now 272,000 klms. We are unsure of when, and if the wheel hubs have been replaced before. Obviously, with our front wheels currently off, with a view to replacing the rotors themselves, thought it might be worthwhile to at least look at the wheel hub situation as well. When we last drove our vehicle over 6 mths ago (veh. has been off the road due to an engine upgrade to P400), there had been some vibration underneath, which at time we had the tail shaft then balanced. Can anyone here offer us some insight as to how we should proceed.

The front hub part we are thinking of replacing from Rockauto is a Timkin part listed next. Is this Timkin part a good quality part that will give a long service life or would there be a better part ?

TIMKEN # SP580303 {#15991989} Includes Sensor; Tapered Bearing, Front Left; 8 Stud.

TIMKEN # SP580302 {#15991990} Includes Sensor; Tapered Bearing, Front Right; 8 Stud.

Regards

Michael and Anne
Australia

[jrsavoie]

I used to do preventive maintenance. But with the popularity of new bad parts these days, I feel it is a better risk to run the known to still be good part as opposed to installing a new maybe crappy part.

The still working old part will probably outlive the new part.

I have been getting AC Delco front bearings from Amazon. They come with the rotors installed. The price is not much more than Timkens

[mjeremy]

We concede to still having so much to learn with these vehicles, so few sold in Australia, and even fewer diesel ones. We are only assuming as well that the front hubs 'might' need replacement, as part of preventive maintenance as well. Following purchase, we consulted a local mechanic to do a check/service on our back diff & change of brakes. Mechanic at time thought we should replace the front rotors in due course, as they were showing some wear. If changing the rotors, should it be assumed that the wheel hubs need replacement as well (with these types of 'heavier' vehicles?).

Because it is our intention to do some off-road adventures with our family, towing also a small camping trailer, we are now more of the opinion that we should probably for safe measure, replace the hubs as well - (we have the rotors) but we were unsure what is viewed the best brand of hubs out there. (ACDelco? I take your point about the cheap parts, and it is our view that we don't mind spending a bit more for quality, as this is both usually cheaper in the long term; as well as a peace of mind thing, if something goes wrong in the middle of nowhere.

If replacing the rotors/hubs, what type of average mileage can one expect from a 1998 K2500 suburban, & say occasionally towing; not pushing the vehicle too much etc. I only ask this because after consulting the general internet, opinions can vary so much on this subject. Thank you for your anticipated interest and response!

Michael and Anne

[jrsavoie]

Longevity of the rotors and brake parts depends heavily on driving.I like the AC Delcos best. I have gotten my best longevity out of them. The cheaper aftermarkets have gone out in 20,000 miles or less.

I'd stick with AC Delco, Timken or Moog.

http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-FW244-Front-Hub-Assembly/dp/B000C9TR6W/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

ACDelco FW244 Front Hub Assembly
by ACDelco
2 customer reviews
Price: $319.96 & FREE Shipping. Details

[Robyn]

The hubs on these are pretty good as far as going the long haul.

The one thing that they are not good at is hard offroading, especially with huge tires.

Bang a wheel sideways real hard into a rut or other obstacle can damage the bearing.

Jack the rig up and with the wheel on, see if you can rock the wheel tire assembly in and out at the top, indicating the bearing is failing.

Push in at the top of the tire while pulling up on the bottom. There should be no movement.

If it goes clunk clunk and the wheel moves or in other words, the bearing has slop, then the bearing is shot.

Catastrophic failures are rare.

The usual failure on these will be a subtle noise/vibration from the front and as the bearing gets further along in failing the ABS tone wheel (inside the bearing) will start chewing on the sensor, and the ABS system can start giving fits.

I have seen the bearings make bump bump bump noises like a tire with a knot on it, then stop.

These bearings are spendy from GM, and the US aftermarket can gouge too.

The last one I bought was from a vendor on ebay and was very reasonable

Be forewarned
The bearing capsule is held in by flange headed bolts from the back side of the steering knuckle, and are recessed in.

Using a 12 point socket almost always results in rounding off the bolt head due to how tight the bolts are.

Get a 6 point impact socket and turn the OD down so it will slip into the pocket and onto the bolt.

I had a rig that some idiot totally rounded a bolt head off while trying to remove them.

I ended up worrying the head off with a die grinder and a carbide bur :eek:

On the 3/4 ton the entire assembly must come out to replace the rotors anyway.

While its out you can feel the bearing by hand.

The rotor goes off the back past the bearing.

The rotor has notches that allow it to slide over the corners of the bearing cartridge.

Be sure to wipe out the housing and clean the bearing pocket and grease things so they don't rust.

Use never seaze on the bolt threads when assembling.

While you are up close and personal, you can inspect the front half shaft joint boots for cracks/damage


The nut that holds the shaft into the bearing is a locking nut, but is usually fine for reuse

The splines are of the non interference fit type and a light tap with a dead blow hammer will dislodge it from the hub assembly.

An easy R&R

Just get a good 6 point 15mm socket and mod it to fit.

Life is good.

Robyn

[Robyn]

Just did a search online

Rock Auto has the bearings

Prices range from $77 to $150 depending on the grade you choose.

These are a right and left specific part.

[mjeremy]

Michael and I wish to say a big thank you for your well articulated and clear responses to our wheel hub/ & related parts query. It certainly has been a 'trial and error'; good learning curve for the both of us over the while, in regards to this vehicle, but thanks to forums such as your own, this task is so much easier. Thank goodness as well for the internet & its ability to link people with related interests! I do enjoy also back reading the Diesel Page articles - bit by bit taking it in, finding the articles so broad ranging and comprehensive!

For most of our Suburban's past life, its records reveal that it has enjoyed meticulous servicing & mostly through GM/Holden outlets here in Aust. over a travel distance of about 222,000 klms, but the last chap who owned it, (for about 50,000 klms), tended to be by his own omission, a bit 'hit and miss' with the "TLC". For this, he was happy to let it go for a good price, his work in the West. Aust. mining boom since slowed down. Our vehicle thus when we first got it, looked some what 'sad' and 'wanting', motivating us to check everything with a finer tooth comb, and more often that not, things have come up better than we tended to really expect. In Aust., these types of vehicles are way, way more expensive than in USA anyway, (e.g. this type of suburban in diesel, & say in mint condition can be as much still as $35,000 - average about $22,000 - (petrol varieties tending to be cheaper overall!) and in Aust., there is nothing just like it for room capacity and towing ability, especially with this one being a diesel, which is the preferred choice for many doing touring in. We got our vehicle for (AUD$ 10,500), which has allowed us to more easily justify putting in a new and better engine etc. and doing other improvements at our own pace. Generally speaking, I think our vehicle is proving very solid, allowing for the fact that it is addit. 17 years old. In the most part, its 'apparent' neglect, we realise, is more cosmetic. In Aust., suburbans stands out, almost as a novelty - because they are just so big - yet still a comfortable style cruiser. Now for your possible interest, even if we were to find anything say in USA as suitable, and say in diesel, costs would be outrageous, not to mention compliance and taxes, but even cost of conversion to RHD ( over $30,000). Thus in doing up our 1998 diesel Suburban, we know we have made the best decision.

These referred rotors/wheel hubs etc are one of the few remaining systems that we now need to better investigate, and upgrade as necessary. We also plan to then tackle inside the cabin. Of your reference to the correct way of removing the bolts, we did notice that on one of the nuts, the top of it has been 'rounded off', making it hard to remove, but will now proceed to address things properly. Anyway, your explanation Robyn how to check things here is outstanding, especially for myself, as I (Michael's wife) have never been involved with motor vehicles (in a maintenance sense, until now with this suburban). It is Michael's and my 'middle life' enjoyment project for the time, though conceding Michael still does most of the more difficult hard mechanical 'yakka' on it. Currently, I am still degreasing some parts underneath the body, to obtain a clearer view of things - checking for surface rust/ repainting/tidying up, before oiling areas for long term protection/ (body parts and nuts/bolts). Doing up this vehicle has been hard work, but it is in the most part, good & healthy fun. We have a few kids, and can't way to take our Big Red out again, all healthy and strong, for further travel adventures in. Cheers to you all!

Regards, Michael and Anne, of Australia!

[Dvldog8793]

Very cool!
Seems that with the wrong hand drive, GM used the van type turbo set up.
Also seems that you have an intercooler...?

While you are working on the front end might want to check ball joints and
Idler arms as these trucks can be hard on those parts as well.

Stainless brake lines will help improve brakes and they last forever.

I would flush the brake system while you are installing brakes.

I did have a catastrophic front hub failure...had to be towed in. Never had any symptoms till I heard a low growl and by the time I could get to the edge of the road the wheel was leaned in.:eek: That was at 175,000 miles.
I replaced both with AC Delco parts.

Thanks for the pictures and keep us posted with travels!

[Robyn]

All the best to ya

Robyn

[WILLD420]

When you start looking for parts, be aware that many of the higher priced brands are often outsourced to cheaper companies for re-branding.

If you can shop locally, on some things it is best, since you can determine the country of origin. Timken makes good bearings, but they have been outsourcing some things to China and Korea lately. SKF makes decent bearings as well, but you have to mind the country of manufacture.

I realize it makes things confusing, but I have learned some of these things the hard way.

The A/C Delco Professional Brand line is pretty good. Timken is usually good. Moog is usually pretty good.

One thing to consider. If you are going to the remote regions, take one of your old wheel hubs with you. If you have a failure, if you have the tools, they can be replaced if you have a decent place to work on the rig.

Best wishes.

[jrsavoie]

There is a swap that can be made with IIRC a year 2000 steering knuckle.

If you swap the steering knuckle and tie rod end You can use the newer rotors that you do not have to remove the bearing to change - It beats pounding studs.

I always aim to do this mod on my vehicles, but have always been to pressed for time to get it done

[mjeremy]

Thank you for your kind response, Willd420. Normally, and in the 18 mths or so that we have had this vehicle, our first choice is always AC Delco, and/or alter., the best brand we can get (say Bosch fuel injectors). In the beginning, and whilst still learning about this veh., we had our suburban's back diff checked and serviced; and drums machined/brakes changed etc with a local and respected mechanic (Michael, my husb., at the time wasn't able to do this himself); anyway, the mechanic had thought the front rotors might also need replacement at some point. Michael at this time sourced replacement rotors (only) from an Aust. outlet, specialising in American car parts, like suburbans. In more recent times, he thought he would also replace the hubs, and was surprised to learn this was hard to do with the ACDelco type, without I think getting the whole thing (rotors and hubs together package), thus his basis for looking at Timekin, for they supplied the hubs singularly, & of course, as said, he had a set of rotors anyway.

On subsequent closer inspection of the existing hubs/rotors, the he found to his satisfaction, the hubs/rotors still in reasonable condition; no 'sloppiness' in the hubs/ things tight etc. Thus we thought we might look at the whole front wheel system a little later, and when we figure out how best to proceed.

We understand what you mean with the 'out-sourcing', and risk even with some parts being less than adequate. We have also been on a long learning curve with this vehicle, and once ordered some fancy front lights, under the guise of being 'Spyder' ones, via an ebay site. We soon realised that they were what is known as a 'knockoff' of a 'Spyder' lighting system, thus generally do try now to track down reputed good outlets, like RockAuto, and Summit Racing. Often a sales rep will provide a back history on a part, how popular it is and its return rate owing to failure.

Here in Aust. as the USA, one can easily go for miles, and into remote places, thus the need for good parts etc in one's vehicle being so important. I do wonder whether we will though ever reach a time, when this suburban will be completely finished to our satisfaction. Have a feeling we might be always upgrading something! Cheers to you, and again, thank you for your response!

[WILLD420]

I believe everyone who ventures out and about feels the same about finishing a vehicle for travel. There is always something that needs looking after, or you want to improve.

I find the best motivation for doing these things is to take the vehicle out and use it for what you intended. This helps me get motivated when I am feeling like sitting around sleeping, instead of working on a truck.

All things mechanical need special areas attended to, but overall the Suburban platform is a pretty robust unit that may rattle all of the plastic bits out of place, but the remainder of the truck is pretty reliable.

Some of the biggest issues with these trucks was overheating and the failures of the fuel injection driver or (PMD) as it is called in some circles. The overheating is easily fixed with some of the newer aftermarket parts and the PMD failures are well documented in how to fix them. There are also issues with the engine oil cooler line clips coming off on occasion, but I believe the majority of those issues were due to corrosion or installation error.

Running clean fuel and making sure it stays full of fluids is the primary way to ensure your trip is a good one. The rest of the things will come as they always do and require a little patience and ingenuity.

Here is a list of things that I carry on our longer trips. I'm sure you will have a list like this, but it may help you.

Spare Fuel Pump. (Electronic ones can die for no reason sometimes and they are cheap to fix when you can order one at your convenience, not out in the bush somewhere.)

Spare engine drive belt and tensioner pulleys. (I just carry some old ones that were still good when I took them off.)

1.5 gallons of engine oil and filter. Losing an oil line or having a disastrous leak can empty the engine fairly quickly and I've had oil filters fail due to road debris, or manufacturing defects.

2 gallons of Automatic Transmission Fluid and assorted tubing splices to repair a broken or leaking cooler line. Two gallons is about the minimum it takes for one of these transmissions to operate.

2 Quarts of differential lubricant.

1 gallon of antifreeze and 1 gallon of water for the engine. I usually just carry the antifreeze, since i carry water for drinking and bathing.

1 pint of brake fluid.

One spare universal joint for the rear driveshaft.
One spare front wheel bearing unit.
A spare upper and lower radiator hose. (New ones are so cheap I don't bother carrying old ones, but i have done that in the past.)

A spare alternator, fuel filter, and assorted odds and ends such as u-joint straps and bolts for the front and rear drivelines. (I've had some come loose before and there are no other bolts on your vehicle which will substitute.)

Otherwise I carry the tools to do the repairs and a tarp or cardboard to lay on while I have to work.

I'm sure I am forgetting a lot of things, but my intention is to be able to limp it to help.

I know of a couple people who carry bicycles or small motor bikes as a way to get out if they run out of parts, or a way to quickly scout the areas around looking for travel routes or better camping spots.