Battery Cable Costs using Welding cable

[vernj4]

Cost of Battery Cables made from welding wire;
using 2/0 cable - NAPA prices in Kalamazoo, Michigan;

single side mount terminal - $1.79
dual side mount terminal - $2.00
ground terminal - $1.60
cable - $2.31 per ft

die set crimper - "pound with hammer" - $52
Would think that the die set could be used in a press
yielding a better, controlled crimp.

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

I might like to do this on two of my trucks. Any chance you've still got the NAPA part numbers, especially for the crimper?

Blessings!

Brian Johnson, #5044

[Dvldog 8793]

Brian
I have a really nice set of crimpers that you can borrow. I could send them to you useing Minnesota Speedy or drop them off next time i'm down that way. They use a different type of terminal but I have access to all the types and numbers. I was going to do an article on this for the page but it seemed like to many other things happened, cracked block ect... tongue.gif
Let me know...
Conley

[CareyWeber]

Vern,

I made my own battery cables with 1 gauge welding cable and I really like them. IMHO 2/0 is to big, but it will carry the load.

I also used 1 gauge for my cable from the alternator to the + post.

Carey

[whatnot]

What do the battery terminals look like?
When I did mine, I had a hard time finding anything besides the lead ones.
I got everything from delcity.net
I think it was about $50 total for everything. I used the stackable tin plated copper battery ends. They are slightly smaller than the battery connections but work good. They have teeth and are stackable so I didn't have to double up any wires. I already had a cripmer that did a nice job.
I used 1 gauge cable.

[Dvldog 8793]

I think the ends that I used were found in a marine section of the hardware store. I am not sure of the composition but they were much harder than lead. These conectors were also available with double ends so 2 large cables were possible without stacking. I used 2/0 cable for the long runs and 1 gauge for shorter stuff. Also converted everything to top post. I did this because of surface area and the ability to tighten them down better and for ease of inspection. With 2 optima red tops it spins over pretty good!
L8r
Conley

Be sure you SEAL ALL connections as airtight as possible and use copper based neversieze to improve connections.

[Bill Siver]

I just re-wired all my connections with 1 gauge. I used all solder on ends, and attached them to the side posts. Next time I buy batterys, I'm gonna get 2 Optima Yellow Top group 31's. I like the marine type terminals alot, and they are 900 CCA each.

[damork]

Check out this crimper number at McMaster Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/):

7061K12

It's a hammer type that goes for under $30 and at least when I bought this one it was still made in the USA. I bought this because the first one I bought was an import and the crimps were junk.

[stephen_board]

I made a cable to connect the positive battery connections out of 2/0 cable and screw on compression ends that I got from Wrangler NW (http://www.wranglernw.com/).

I had a great buying experience from them but I think if I did it again I'd use smaller cable (2/0 is huge) and I'd probably try some of the crimpless ends from McMaster-Carr (mentioned above). These ends have solder in the end so all you need to do is heat it a little. That's probably the route I'm gonna take for my "lesser" truck (Ford Ranger).

I don't think one would be going wrong with either vendor although I haven't had personal experience with McMaster-Carr. Anyone out there with good/bad stories about them?

Stephen

[Dvldog 8793]

Mcmaster-carr is great and they have EVERYTHING, I mean -=EVERYTHING=- :eek:
But I think you have to have business account with a tax ID number to order from them. This was how it was a few years ago. Maybe it has changed.
L8r
Conley Janssen

[David Brady]

I have ordered a couple of things from McMaster Carr and they have been great. Stuff shows up quickly and is correct. I have ordered some household stuff and a drill bushing that I used on my 6.2 to drill out a stud.

[David Brady]

I have ordered a couple of things from McMaster Carr and they have been great. Stuff shows up quickly and is correct. I have ordered some household stuff and a drill bushing that I used on my 6.2 to drill out a stud. They just take a credit card like most today.

[ees]

With this talk about battery cables I thought I would pass this along. I have not used these battery cable ends, but they look really nice.

http://tinyurl.com/6obwh

[Hye]

I never liked the dual side connection. I use a split bolt to tie the second positive lead into the positive lead going to the starter. When well wrapped in tape, they have lasted 10+ years without problems on four different vehicles. Those from the frozen north and others who have to deal with salt might want to add some rubbery electrical sealant before taping the splice.
There is a nice article in the member's area, too. Improved Side Terminal Battery Connections

[stephen_board]

ees,

I used two of the 32-5020P connectors, ~5ft of 2/0 Red cable and some really heavy duty heat shrink. I wire tied it to the existing cable running across the truck. I didn't want to mess with all the additional cables coming off of the factory leads. I figure the ol' "path of least resistance" thing would come into play for the battery to battery connection.

They work great. I still think much of the problems with these trucks are the factory side post ends. Top posts seem to work better; especially with good ends.

Stephen

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

Dvldog 8793: Thanks! I

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
the crimper that I used is a three sided die crimp that works with compound leverage kinda like a bolt cutter. It cost about $100 but really works nice and I've used it for other things as well. I think you can rent this type crimper also.
The lugs and crimper(ET8 6/0) can be found here:
http://www.electerm.com/battery.html
Hope this helps....
L8r
Conley Janssen

[Big Red Suburban]

I just replaced most of my cables with 2/0 (which is huge, BTW). I have a question regarding the alt cable, there is a small rubber covered rectangular thing molded in the existing wire, what is it?

Can I just replace it with a direct cable from the Alt to the battery?

Also, can you get to the cable on the starter without removing the starter itself? It was too dark for me to actually see this connection last night.

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
The molded in part on the Alt cable is a fusible link( I think???) It is a safety and probably should be left on or replaced with one in a new cable. I did the starter cable with the starter off and it was still a REAL pain useing 2/0. It did make a difference as to how it spins over. The biggest pain on the starter is the heat shields, much blood loss!
L8r
Conley

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by Big Red Suburban:
Can I just replace it with a direct cable from the Alt to the battery?

Also, can you get to the cable on the starter without removing the starter itself? It was too dark for me to actually see this connection last night. Big Red,

I replace my alternator to + battery post with the same one gauge cable I used for my other battery cables.

IIRC I did my starter connection with it still on the truck (but 1 gauge is much easier to deal with than 2/0).

Not that over kill is a bad idea, but I think the one gauge or 1/0 is big enough, but to each his own. If I had cheap access to 2/0 I'd likey used it too.

Carey

[DmaxMaverick]

Big Red Suburban

You can replace that wire, but you need to keep the protection. You can either replace the fusable link with another fusable link, or an inline Maxifuse. Just make sure it is not rated at more than your alternator output is rated. Usually, ~10% less is ideal. For example, if you have a 140 amp alternator, a 125 or 130 amp maxifuse will do. It has to be the weak link. You don't want your wiring or the alternator to take that roll.

Also, the other little wires at the alternator should be left as-is, or replaced with the same size wire if you have to.

[vernj4]

Anyone used these? they look good.........but?

http://www.premierpowerwelder.com/terminals/terminals.html

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

I have a chart that says that wire # 0 has 0.105 to 0.123 ohms per 1000 ft. of copper wire, depending on what coating the wire has; tin-coated copper has 0.114 ohms per 1000 ft. (I don't know if # 0 is the equivalent of the 1/0 you've discussed.) (Unfortunately, my chart only goes down to # 0.)

E=IR
E=(200 amps)*(.000114 ohms) [per foot]
E=0.0228V [per foot]
E=22.8 mV [per foot]

This means that 10 ft. of # 0, passing 200 amps, would drop ~ 228 mV.

I thought a little math might clarify what's going on here. You'll have to judge for yourself if < 1/4V drop is significant to cranking speed. :D

on edit: Does anyone know what gage the OEM cables are? I'd like to know the same data for what's on my trucks now.

Blessings!

Brian Johnson, # 5044

[ 01-24-2005, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: moondoggie ]

[Dvldog 8793]

Good job Brian!
Something else for you to try to add in, Restance increase with tempeture in relation to cranking time. The cables heat up the more you crank creating more resistance creating more heat, on and on and on ect..... I don't know if this would be significant for 1/0 cable or not. After putting my cables together I really think that what I did was overkill but it sure makes me feel good looking at those nice big cables! :D
L8r
Conley

[Big Red Suburban]

Tomorrow I get to try and install the new cable from the passenger battery plus terminal to the starter (should be fun)! I also think my cables (2/0) are overkill but I know I won't be left sitting somewhere because it won't turn over fast enough to start (because of cables anyway).

Right out of the NEC code book 2/0 cables have a resistance of .101 Ohms per 1000 ft of cable (BTW, this rating is at 167 degrees F, should be less at normal temps).

The question becomes how much current does a 6.5 use to start on a cold morning? My two batteries capable of 1000 CCA each work pretty hard when starting on a cold morning. If I assume they provide 1000 amps total to the starter...

Voltage drop = current * resistance


So 1000 (amps) * .000101 (ohms/ft) * 10 (ft) is a 1.0V drop.

The stock cables are what? 4 gauge? 0.000321 ohms/ft If so, they drop 1000 * .000321 * 10 which is a 3.2V drop. Add this to the fact that the old cable is corroded on the battery end (resistance goes up, so does voltage drop).

Here's an idea for those that need batteries. I noticed the batteries used by my relatives on their semi's are all 950 CCA and they say can be bought for $55 each. They look very close in size to the ones used in my 6.5. Anyone ever used some of these as opposed to the $100+ replacements we normally use?

[vernj4]

1/0 will have approx 25% more resistance than 0 ga wire.

According to a local supplier, the resistance of welding wire vs. the same size battery cable is a factor of 2.

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
I tried an ag-service tractor battery in my 89 gasser once and it was about 1/2inch too tall. I'm thinking the semi battery might be the same thing.
I am getting a clamp on lead for my Fluke this week and I'm going to find out just how much my truck draws in the cold when it spins over. I'll post the results.
L8r
Conley

[DeezlStinson]

Making your own cables works great.

I ALWAYS solder connections.


cheers,

Rick