How to beginning the cooling mod process

[bbudus]

Ok, I am now ready to add guages and some cooling mods. My questions are probably rehash but I would still like a fresh perspecive.

1. What are the bare minimum cooling mods?

2. Where can I find just a High Flow Waterpump?

3. Does the newer Hayden clutch make that much of a difference, and if so will JK 20" fan bolt to it?

The direction I am thinking of going is the high flow pump and Hayden Severe Duty Clutch with JK 20" fan. Is this thinking right?

bbudus

PS. adding pyro, boost, and trany gauges at the same time. Any thoughts on ISSPRO Gauges?

[ace58]

97 cooling mod (use search file) circulates coolant through both heads more efficiently.

Penninsular Diesel sells high flow water pumps.

I am not familiar with Hayden fan clutch or its compatibility with JK's fan.

[BUZZ]

I am installing the cooling mods in stages.
I started with the cross over, purchased from my local dealer. I think everything except the water pump cost me 200.00.
I have installed the crossover and have noticed a marked improvement in cooling. Next I am installing the Dmax fan and better clutch, which I have, but not yet installed.
When I gather enough funds for timing gears, I will then buy the high flow pump and do install gears and pump together.
Buzz

[bbudus]

Buzz,

What is the difference in the DMax fan vs. stock, and which clutch works with it? Sounds like that may be the way to go.

Bbudus

[bbudus]

Another ?, can you just buy a 97' newer waterpump and get the same results? I have read that the 99'
is the most advanced GM put on these engines, if that is so why not just go with that?

[gerry1]

Bbudus,

I don't think its recommended to use the high flow pump without the dual thermostat crossover.
If you are going to stage the upgrades, I would do it the way Buzz has done.
I did mine all at same time and also switched over to Dexcool coolant. Made a huge difference.
I still run the stock fan/clutch which seems to do fine with the other cooling mods.

Gerry

[bbudus]

gerry1,

This info is straight from SSdieselsupply.com.

"Although full 130gpm flow will not be realized until the dual thermostat housing is added as supplied in our Cooling System Upgrade, it will increase flow somewhat over the early stock 87gpm pumps and have some benefit in cooling. There will be no backpressure as this pump is centrifugal, not positive displacement, and it will only flow what restriction will allow and will not harm the pump or system."

So I think this is just another rung up the ladder for me, they also have a DMax fan kit that looks rather interesting. I just wish somebody else had some input on how well it worked. I would like to do this just once. But if that is not in the cards I will just add gears next time also.

Thanks for the help,

Bbudus

[Kennedy]

He can think what he wants about pressure etc, but I will not recommend doing the pump without the dual stat upgrade. Centrifugal or not, there is pressure made. Ever see a lower rad hose collapse???

[dieseldummy]

I ran my pickup for a long time with just a modified stock fan clutch and a HO water pump. It made a big difference and caused no leaks. I later added a duramax fan and a modified '97+ fan clutch. It didn't make a big difference, or much of a difference at all. I have finally added dual thermostats and it has made all the difference in the world. I would recomend buying a kit from a vendor because I didn't have the dimes and pennies to buy one so I purchased pieces at a time which turned out to be similarly priced to a kit in the end, but was much harder to install piece by piece. I also ran a Hayden fan clutch from Bill Heath for a while and will have to say that it didn't kick in until 220 or 230 just like the stock clutch so cooling wasn't very good with it. I'm not exatly sure what is different about JK's clutch, but with a simple adjustment of the thermal coil on the front of the stock one engagement can be lowered. I have found that to be the key in cooling a 6.5 so if your looking to go a step by step route cheaply, IMO the best mod to do first is to adjust the stock fan clutch. Then dual thermostats, HO water pump, then a bigger fan.

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by dieseldummy:
I also ran a Hayden fan clutch from Bill Heath for a while and will have to say that it didn't kick in until 220 or 230 just like the stock clutch so cooling wasn't very good with it. I'm not exatly sure what is different about JK's clutch The Hayden clutch is identical to OEM both pysically and in performance. Mine is physically identical, but they are built with a different calibration that brings them in earlier. Because GM buys millions, and I buy hundreds it costs more, but it flat out works.

[TJ Moose]

As for taking the steps and basics - I also can't emphasize enough cleaning out the coolers to make sure air flow is okay. My '95 6.5 TD has 177 K miles on the radiator and 10 years of use with only new fluid changes every 2 years. I got about 5 cups of dried bugs, sand, dirt, etc. out of the A/C condensor, and about 50% of the radiator exterior was also covered with a mat of the same on the surface when I pulled it out. My radiator shop said internally, the core was about 40% blocked, but they were able to go through and rod out all the tubes except the very top one - which they said wasn't all that unusual. Went back to a GM stat instead of the Stant the was in there. 21" 9 blade composite fan bolted right in - although clearance is tight on the shroud (but not causing problems.) Cooling temps have dropped from what had become the usual 210 back down to 190-195. Before the cleaning, there was both a lot of air and coolant NOT flowing through the coolers.

[dieseldummy]

Originally posted by kennedy:
The Hayden clutch is identical to OEM both pysically and in performance. Mine is physically identical, but they are built with a different calibration that brings them in earlier. Because GM buys millions, and I buy hundreds it costs more, but it flat out works. [/QB]So if the spring on the front of the clutch is moved it does basicly the same thing, just not as scientific right?

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by dieseldummy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by kennedy:
The Hayden clutch is identical to OEM both pysically and in performance. Mine is physically identical, but they are built with a different calibration that brings them in earlier. Because GM buys millions, and I buy hundreds it costs more, but it flat out works. So if the spring on the front of the clutch is moved it does basicly the same thing, just not as scientific right? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Yes, but accuracy and repeatability are tough to gauge. When built the clutches are set into a tempered liquid to precisely orient the innards.

[bigmikestud]

Does anyone sell a complete changeover kit like SSDiesel has on eBay for less than $325? Time is of course money but I wondered if the local high volume GM dealer might be cheaper or have a kit with a part# already??!! This is next on my list and I was hoping someone could shine some more light on the subject. I'd like to spread my money around to advertisers on here since eBay/Chinese imports are killing my shop equipment business.

[bbudus]

Would like to thank everybody for there posts. I am going to go with the dual TStats and the HO WaterPump. DieselDummy I like your economical approach to the fan clutch. My radiator and AC cooler were profesionally cleaned at the time of my engine rebuild, so I am expecting good things with these new cooling mods. Again thanks.

Bbudus

[More Power]

I wish SSDiesel would support his claim of no pressure buildup when running a 130-gpm water pump with a single t-stat. How does he know?

Back in 1997, I communicated with a 6.5 cooling system engineer at GM. He told me that during the engineering and design work, they discovered that pressure could in-fact build under the right conditions when run with a single t-stat. He went on to explain how a couple of their test engines had loosened/lost soft plugs when run with a single t-stat. He said 2 t-stats solved that problem.

I don't understand the process involved, but I tend to trust the engineers who were involved in the design work.

MP

[Marty Lau]

Originally posted by bigmikestud:
Does anyone sell a complete changeover kit like SSDiesel has on eBay for less than $325? Time is of course money but I wondered if the local high volume GM dealer might be cheaper or have a kit with a part# already??!! This is next on my list and I was hoping someone could shine some more light on the subject. I'd like to spread my money around to advertisers on here since eBay/Chinese imports are killing my shop equipment business. John Kennedy sells the whole shooting match like SS for near the same money. You can save some bucks by piecing it together your self with GM part numbers from a place like GM Parts dirrect or you might even beable to do that by going to a local AC Delco warehouse parts desk and puting together yourself. The thing about John's kit is it's saves you time, verse money,plus you caqn call John if you run into a problem. DIY if you want to save money vs time. There are a couple of alod posts with parts numbers from a couple years back. (do a search)

[fastcat800]

]So if the spring on the front of the clutch is moved it does basicly the same thing, just not as scientific right? [/QB][/QUOTE]
OK, so here is todays stupid question. Looser or tighter to get it to kick in sooner? I would guess tighter.