It's so COLD!

[Qazulight]

First time poster.

2000 model K3500 single wheel, two wheel drive, automatic, utility bed, single cab. 6.5 liter turbo charged. 148,000 miles.

I read the "read this first" post. I went out and checked and I think that the fuel pump module has been moved, but that is not my problem.

I bought an old Bell South truck when I lived in Texas. I bought it in the spring and ran it all summer. Now this isn't to say I ran it much, I did not. I bought the old beat up truck because it has a utility bed and I pretty much used it as a rolling tool box.

Right before I moved up here to Fargo North Dakota, I used it to haul some timber and pulled 3 tons of timber, and maybe 3 and half tons of lumber with it. It did fine.

I noticed though, that when it started cooling off, just a little bit, the truck took its time coming up to normal operating temperature.

Then I got a job in Fargo North Dakota with a short trigger on the move date. I thought I would sell the old truck in Texas and buy a newer SUV or something, but in the end, I just put some new tires on the truck, had the power steering hoses changed and had the oil changed to a synthetic diesel oil.

I pulled a small U-Haul from Texas to Fargo, about 1200 miles, I ran between 65 and 70 most of the way and got about 13 miles to the gallon. This was not unexpected as when I was running around Texas not towing I was only getting 16.

The good and the bad.

First the good.

The truck starts in about a second when I hit the key. Even this morning at -25 degrees, about a second. Of course it is on a block heater, but it is only a 500 watt block heater.

The truck has enough power, it shifts well, it stops well, and I think I got all the oil leaks stopped. It uses little oil, I am about 2000 miles on the synthetic oil change and I notice that might be a 1/4 of a quart low.

It doesn't seem to use coolant. I went out and looked at the coolant jar when it was cold, it was empty, but when I checked it hot, it was about full. (I had the coolant flushed and filled when I bought the truck.)

The front end and all the shock absorber have been rebuilt.

Just before I left Texas, I got the last of the A/C problems ironed out. :)

The bad.

The windshield washer tank, and/or washer motor is leaking.

The heater/A/C blower motor is stiff and needs to be replaced. (It works but it draws a little extra current.)

The seat cover is shot and the mechanism that allows the seat to lean forward is cranky as I am.

The real bad

The temperature of the engine will not come up above a 167 degrees. Thus the heater only blows mildly warm air.

Yesterday when I drove home in -18 degree weather, (I plug the truck in at work too.) by the time I got home my fingers were numb. That is while I was wearing layers of winter clothes, wearing -25 degree winter boots, a thinsulate hat and thinsulate gloves inside my truck with the heater on, MY FINGERS WERE NUMB WITH COLD!

I needed to drive to Walmart about 10 minutes away, when I got there, my fingers were numb then too. So, before I left, I took an old tarp out of the bed and tied it onto the grill to block the wind. I was pleased when I saw the temperature gauge move up a little to 165 degrees and the oil pressure ease back some.

Today I went to Hobby Lobby and bought some thick rubber coated fabric and made a tight fitting winter cover for the radiator. I think it helped a little, the oil pressure seems to have dropped to about normal for idle. (38 lb)However, it runs right back up to 60 as soon as I touch the gas, and the temperature might have climbed a couple of degrees to 167, or it could just be wishful thinking. On the other hand, I did feel slightly warm air come out of the vents. This is an improvement over totally cold air.

So, I am wondering, it this normal, or has someone pulled the thermostat?

Cheers
Qazulight (I will try to add pictures tomorrow, it got dark before I got the chance today.)

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
Sounds like your thermostats (it has two of them) are stuck. My 1996 runs about 175-180 when it is -25, plenty warm inside. My 1999 did about the same. My older 6.2 will only run up to about 165 with covering the radiator. The fan will draw cool air through the radiator unless you place cover directly on the radiator. Another possibility is that the fan clutch is stuck(not likely).

Check the heater core as well, it could be partially plugged.

Some advice if you plan on staying up in this part of the world...check your glow plug system. Keep some fuel additive handy. Use a cold flow improver of some type in the winter ALWAYS. I have been stuck three times trusting the pump that said WINTER BLEND:mad:

Hope this helps!

[Qazulight]

Howdy
Sounds like your thermostats (it has two of them) are stuck. My 1996 runs about 175-180 when it is -25, plenty warm inside. My 1999 did about the same. My older 6.2 will only run up to about 165 with covering the radiator. The fan will draw cool air through the radiator unless you place cover directly on the radiator. Another possibility is that the fan clutch is stuck(not likely).

Check the heater core as well, it could be partially plugged.

Some advice if you plan on staying up in this part of the world...check your glow plug system. Keep some fuel additive handy. Use a cold flow improver of some type in the winter ALWAYS. I have been stuck three times trusting the pump that said WINTER BLEND:mad:

Hope this helps!

Thanks,

I will have to get it too a mechanic. I don't have an inside place to work on it. I have two that have been recommended. We will see.

Also, I have one other problem I forgot to mention.

P0231. This has been set since I bought the truck and I have not really tried to fix it.

Ideas, comments, bricks?

Cheers
Qazulight

[DmaxMaverick]

Welcome aboard!

It may be very simple......

You're right.. That's COLD. You really should be using a grill cover. If nothing else, place a sheet of cardboard across the front to block much of that chilly air. If it helps, then you can look at a more permanent solution.

[93GMCSierra]

I used to live in Fargo, I am sure glad I moved :):D
Check/replace the thermostats but one thing I did every year was take card board and cover all but 1/4 of the radiator, not the grill the actual rad. The cold temps will as mention still get pulled through the rad if the grill is covered but with the card board up against the rad it will heat up, now you will have to watch the temps and adjust how much rad you leave exposed as the temps start warming up again.

And listen to Dvldog, get yourself some Power Service White bottle, and Red bottle.
The white mix into each tank of fuel to help lower the gel point, and get some red for those unexpected days when the temps got so cold the fuel gelled anyway.

[Dvldog8793]

do a search for your trouble code. It relates to lift pump issues. Could be something as simple as a grounding issue.

[Artworks]

I feel your pain ! I live just North of you & the 49th. We had a lot of -30 C , with wind chill : -50C !!!( C & F temp start to even out now ) My 10 ply tires seem to be more square than round at these temps, lol . But like others said, cover rad, carry power serv white & red 911, MAKE SHURE YOUR BATTERIES ARE GOOD, 13 + . I have dual block heaters on mine. I would check my thermostats also. Maybe install high idle set up to get truck up to operating temps faster. & welcome "Neighbor".

[phantom309]

I,ve always used oil pan heaters on the big trucks,.the warmth naturally percolates up,.and in extreme conditions,.dual block heaters are much better than one side warmer than the other, one of those hot water circulating type heaters is better,.

way back when i had two stroke jokes,,. my 81 freightliner 8v92 had oil pan,. and block heater(s), and battery blankets,.
remember when hydro was cheap?

http://www.kennedydiesel.com/detail.cfm?ID=219

Unrelated but funny story,.....way back when,..

a friend in tisdale saskatchewan had invited me for the holidays,. he had a GMC general with 8v-71T, it was out between the barn and the buildings, totally exposed to the wind and -25f temps,. We went out before breakfast and put the battery charger on it. He pulled an old tin washtub from the barn, poured BBQ briquets in it about 1/3 full,. and lit them,. pushed it under the front axle and we dragged a tarp across the front of her and down the sides to the fuel tanks,.. I should mention that the wind was doing its normal saskatchewan thing mebbe 10mph etc,.
went back in the house,. had brekky, played some cards,. had a couple of shots of antifreeze,.;) then just before lunch headed back out,. it rolled over about twice and fired up as nice as could be. pretty impressive for a 2 stroke i thought.
His neighbour dropped in after lunch, noticed the general wailing away, and was amazed!,. his cab over KW with its 400 cummins was a stone and he couldn't get it to go,.so my bud told him about the washtub and BBQ briquets. So the neighbour goes home with the washtub determined to get his truck going,. about 5pm just before supper we could hear the fire trucks over on the next concession, so we wandered outside to see,. in the distance we could see huge black oily clouds,. so we jumped in the pickup,. and it was the neighbours place with the KW,. not much left of the poor truck,. seems an aluminum oil pan too close to a washtub really full of BBQ briquets didn't do so good,. and it dropped 9 gals of oil into the fire,.did in the poor cabover.
He hard a hard time convincing his ins company he didn't do it deliberately,. :D
So lesson here is don't fill the washtub completely full of briquets,. and if it has an aluminum oil pan, put the washtub under the crank pulley are where there's plenty of room,.:D
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/wtfuashols123/3A0BD171-D8E1-4761-AB1D-EC57BF3523D4-155-0000000574E9DF30_zps164c7fc5.jpg?t=1388694229
hot chocolate and winter,. kids are happy,
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/wtfuashols123/54B5EB1D-F3BC-4B84-A158-0A013755E551-155-000000055BB3B4A2_zps9683d65c.jpg?t=1388694209
only -24c,..;)

[More Power]

Qazulight,

Welcome to the board. You may also want to visit the following page dedicated to helping GM diesel owners cope with cold weather. Jim

http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/coldweathercc.htm

[Qazulight]

Ok, have the cover over the grill, oil pressure down, maybe too much, at low idle, 600 rpm it sits at 20 lbs. Water temp comes up to 190 or maybe a shade more and seems to stay there once it gets there. That is at -3.

I will say the heat is not awesome. The air coming out of the vents is warm, but not hot. The mechanic bled the system, but I will run it for a while.

Bought some "Howes" diesel treatment at Fleet Farm. It is supposed to be an anti-gel and lubricator. They sell it by the case there. I suppose the farmers in North Dakota are pretty smart, then again, they are trying to farm in North Dakota.

So, I will run it a week and see. I might have to have the heater core tested for flow.

Is there a valve on the heater core?

Cheers
Qazulight

[Qazulight]

2568

This is a picture of the old beast with its grill cover.

Cheers
Qazulight

Thermastat down.

Check engine light
Blower motor
Door light switch
Seat cover

to go.

[Dvldog8793]

sounds like a plugged core....make sure that some one in the past didn't splice the hard line coming off the t-stat housing.
20 psi at idle fine. That's about what all my trucks have ever had, one of them was less...15psi since new.
I have no experience with Howes....but also make sure and have some sort of emergency additive in you cab. 911(red bottle, Power service) or FPPF melt down.
Good luck!

[Artworks]

Is the heater control going all the way to high temp/ Sometimes the flapper door may be held open by something falling down the defrost vents & jambing ( ie: pens, 22 shell brass , lol)

[Qazulight]

Is the heater control going all the way to high temp/ Sometimes the flapper door may be held open by something falling down the defrost vents & jambing ( ie: pens, 22 shell brass , lol)

I will check that today by checking the temp of the input and output lines of the heater core. Per other sites on the web, they should both be hot. If one is not hot then, plugged core. If the both hot, check the flapper door.

Being an old electronic tech that has been trouble shooting for 30 years, I should have known that. Duh.

This brings up the next question. I have gotten pretty religious about keeping my vehicles stock. I figured the engineers were better at engineering than I was. So, when I had the radiator flushed and filled I had the shop use OEM coolant, and when or if I replace the heater core I will have the entire system flushed and filled again, and I would normally use the OEM coolant, but a mechanic I was talking to yesterday says he never goes back in with the red coolant and always flushes a fills with the old green style.

So, what is it? Red or Green?

Cheers
Qazulight

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
IMHO...I use green. Not sure if there are any real benefits to warrant full change over for no other reason.

I had been using the dex-cool extended as that is what came in my 1999 chev. The Dex-cool will mix with oil and form a oil jelly that sticks to inside of the engine. My particular truck had a internal coolant leak that I never detected until it was too late. If I had been using the old green stuff I think I would have noticed a oil level or coolant contamination. When I was tearing down the engine It was full of the black sludge mixture. Not fun....

Just make sure you get a COMPLETE flush IF you decide to change.

I am a maintenance nut so having extended run/drain intervals is really pointless for me as I can't bring myself to not replace vital fluids:D

[phantom309]

I like to back flush a heater core, I'll hold the heater hoses up,. fill the core with some caustic soda(draino crystals),.let it work for 5 mins,. then hook the garden hose up and back flush the core,.

YRMV


Nick

Naysayers in,........4-3-2-

[john8662]

Ok, have the cover over the grill, oil pressure down, maybe too much, at low idle, 600 rpm it sits at 20 lbs. Water temp comes up to 190 or maybe a shade more and seems to stay there once it gets there. That is at -3.



Your grille cover looks absolute, like it's covering the entire grille.

I think your oil pressure is down because your oil temperature is getting too high. you need to unblock at least the side of the grill that the oil cooler is on (drivers side). so that the oil can be cooled. The Oil cooler circuit does not go through the radiator like the transmission cooler does.

J

[phantom309]

Your grille cover looks absolute, like it's covering the entire grille J

I agree whole heartedly,. the aftermarket bumper does no have the nostrils in it for the oil cooler

[Qazulight]

I agree whole heartedly,. the aftermarket bumper does no have the nostrils in it for the oil cooler

The radiator shop back flushed the heater core and the entire cooling system. At -18 the truck heated well. This week the temps are going to get above +10 so when they get that high I will pull the cover, and this week end it is supposed to get above freezing so I will rework the cover then.

I think I might go back to Hobby Lobby and get some snaps and put it on with snaps.

Cheers
Qazulight

[Qazulight]

Well, maybe it wasn't so bad, but hey I'm gonna whine anyway.

I got the leaking thermostat fixed on Saturday. On Sunday, with brutally cold temperatures, the heater quit working completely. It seems that working on the system shook enough stuff loose that it plugged the heater core.

So, Monday morning I had a plan. I would take my little portable heater and heat the cab up, then jump in and run to work. The heating up part worked, kind of, but the jumping in an running to work was a complete non starter. At -24 degrees, the windows fogged up and froze with the first breath. So, I took some windshield washer stuff, that is supposed to melt the ice off the outside of the windows and used it clean the inside until I good get to a mechanic just 14 blocks away. This was a workable plan, except it was still dark, I couldn't see well, and I had never been to this shop before.

I got down to main street, then drove around the block twice, by the end of the second circuit my fingers, inside the super duper insulated gloves, inside the truck, were going numb, saw when I saw a McDonalds sign I decided to pull in, get coffee, warm my fingers and ask for better directions.

It just so happened that in the conversation the people that I was talking with asked what I need the mechanic for. When I told them my heater wasn't working, they said "Forget the mechanic, you need a radiator shop. The best one in Fargo is across the street. Sit there and drink your coffee and wait for them to show up." So I did, they back flushed everything and refilled with Dexcool. The heater works, the radiator works everything works.

Wednesday I got a call from a mechanic in West Fargo that was recommended, he had finally gotten the parts for the windshield washer. A tank and motor.

Friday he called me and said, "We got it all in, but the motor will not work, the switch on the turn signal assembly is not working." He wanted to know if I wanted to put another switch on the dash, or replace the assembly. I told him "neither" the pump was running when I brought it in, it just leaked like a sieve. Just set the truck aside and let it turn over in your head, also get a price on that switch assembly. (I thought it would be expensive, and I was right, the switch assembly would run about 400 dollars plus installation) When I got the price I just told him to write up the bill for what he had done, and I would look into it later. When the mechanic that came to pick me up from work showed up, he was cleaning the windshield with the windshield washer motor. He said, "It just started working."

I thought, good! I ran through 600 bucks this week.

So, I spent a lot of money I wasn't prepared to spend, but now the truck is ready for winter.

Oh, by the way, even at 21 degrees, in my 15 minute drive home, even with the absolute grill cover, and the thermostats working properly, the temps don't quite get up high enough to open the thermostats.

So, 600 dollars later:

The engine comes up to temp, in 15 minutes or so.
The heater works, even when the engine temp is only 165 degrees
The windshield washer works, important for warm day like today when road film is everywhere.
The door switch is fixed so my dome light comes on.

Yeah, baby!

All this truck needs now is a new heater blower motor, the old one squeals sometimes, and the seat recovered.

I wonder if I can buy a heated seat from the junk yard that fits this truck at a reasonable price?

Nah, not worth it.

Cheers
Qazulight (But really, at -24, that seat is cold!)

[DmaxMaverick]

You didn't get out of that mess scalded too bad, so to speak. And it's a good thing that washer motor started working (!!).

You can get seat heater kits from many places, like lmctruck.com , Ebay and others. They aren't that expensive, either (less than $100 for pads and controller). Find the model that fits your needs, and search around for the best price. If you're covering the seats anyway, the timing is ideal. Adding the heaters to good existing seats is better, and cheaper, than used seats with heaters that will probably quit before the next polar vortex arrives.

[AKMark]

Amazon has several kits that for less than $60 you get a 3 year warranty and enough pads to heat up two seats.

I hope to install mine next weekend, although I wish I could've done it sooner, as temps dove back to -42F this morning.

Love my Webasto cab heater, takes 10 minutes to warm up and start heating the cab, but once warmed up it is awesome and uses so little fuel you hardly know it's on.

[Qazulight]

Amazon has several kits that for less than $60 you get a 3 year warranty and enough pads to heat up two seats.

I hope to install mine next weekend, although I wish I could've done it sooner, as temps dove back to -42F this morning.

Love my Webasto cab heater, takes 10 minutes to warm up and start heating the cab, but once warmed up it is awesome and uses so little fuel you hardly know it's on.

That Webasto heater sounds like something I should investigate. My daily commute is only 10 to 15 minutes, it depends on how slick the roads are, and the truck should be allowed to warm up. (A lot of the time I only give it a minute then put in gear and idle down the back roads.) If I could bring the engine up to 180 degrees before I even started it, that would be sweet.

Cheers
Qazulight

[AKMark]

I do not have the Webasto that helps with engine coolant, however I have a coworker that does.

His 5.9 Cummins will not warm up at temps below -25F, unless he's pulling a 8K or heavier trailer. He wired it to his remote start, so he fires that up about an hour before he goes to leave, and then fires up the engine about 5 minutes before he leaves or as he's walking out the door. His runs full time during engine operation unless the coolant temp has reached 195 or higher. His cost a lot....


Mine is the interior cab heater. I have a 12V timer that I have yet to install, but I find that if I go out about an hour before I intend to leave, my windows are clear and the cab is about 70 when the outside temps are -35F or worse. The Webasto uses about 1 gallon of fuel for ever 4 hours of use, sometimes a bit more. It does take about 20 minutes for the Webasto to start producing heat. Once it's warmed up, it's awesome. Mine has a variable temp adjustment, the lower settings are sufficient for me, but you can crank it so that it's maintaining about 90 if you want. It's essentially a drip heater. I have found my unit for about $1000 locally, I believe the coolant one is closer to $1500-$1800. Spendy, but worth it. Up here, pretty much any Diesel produced after 2001 doesn't heat up for beans when temps dip below -30. Even with good grill covers....

Wish I had the coolant heater, but my truck had the cab heater version when I picked it up(it was operated on the Alaskan North Slope oil fields where -60 can be a warm day). I have several friends that have picked heaters like this up after riding in my truck on a cold day....or called and begged me to give them a ride to work when the temps drop below -55.

[Qazulight]

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/1465502940/High_Power_Water_Heater_9kw12_24V.html

I found a Chinese 12 or 24 volt coolant heater. Has a 90 watt draw on the battery, but can kick out 9000 watts of heat. It seems that this would heat up a truck in a half hour or so.

They are advertising 600 dollars. If I get some overtime I might try one.

Cheers
Qazulight