High Pressure Fuel Pump Failure at 50K

[InvaderLane]

Hello out there...

My 2011 GMC 2500HD recently experienced what has been diagnosed at a GM dealership as a high pressure fuel pump failure. The service rep. then told me that they would have to pull the engine in order to get to the pump. Fast forward to today (5 days following diagnosis) and I got an update that the pump was on the way... checks in the mail...yada, yada yada and that the pump is located in the "Valley" not "inside the engine" as I was previously told which made having to pull the engine make more sense. Anyway... despite a bit of a loss of confidence in the reliability of the bullet proof 6600 Durmax here, anybody out there know if this fuel pump failure is rare or what? or what its operational failure rate might be?

Thank you!


David Lane
San Diego

[rapidoxidationman]

What symptoms or codes lead the dealer to that diagnosis?

[InvaderLane]

Thanks for asking for further info about my 2011 2500HD's fuel pump failure...

Symptom: At freeway speed, engine began to lose power. Amber check engine lite came on... oil pressure went to zero. No restart following continuous cranking. Truck towed to RV repair shop with a diesel mechanic on staff. Diagnostic code was for low oil or low fuel pressure. Fuel filter changed. After manual pressurization of fuel system using manual pump near fuel filter, engine fired off and then died after 5 seconds. Diagnostic reading of fuel pressure on graphic display during cranking was 44 psi. Truck then towed to Chevy dealer in Victorville, CA whose diesel mech. reported that the high pressure fuel pump was not producing high pressure in the range of 26,000 psi which I at first thought had one too many zeroes until I looked it up in the article regarding the Bosch fuel system installed in the Duramax. I am new to the website here and so far am not seeing much in the way that relates to this problem...

David Lane

[More Power]

Welcome to the board!

Knowing what the codes are is important. Always ask for the codes, then post them here when seeking help.

I suspect your truck may have set a diagnostic trouble code P0087. There's lots of reading here about that code. It's not always the high-pressure pump....

[InvaderLane]

Thank you for your information stating that that a diagnostic code of P0087 can include the failure of the high pressure fuel pump but not always...

That is exactly what I am afraid of... Mr. Goodwrench going down the wrong path, taking two weeks to change the fuel pump, NOT EASY, and then me... being stranded out in the middle of BF no-where while in the desert for the second time looking for Air Force aircraft wrecks. FYI...The tow bill by AAA was $350. to civilization and then another $175. to the GM dealer... Help Mr. Wizard!... for those of you old enough to remember The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show/ cartoon series, ha!

Will call the service rep. tomorrow, Monday morning, to see if he can find out what the code was... and get "back which ya".

Best,

David Lane

[DmaxMaverick]

To address some of your concerns:

HP fuel pump failures are rare. Very rare, for any Duramax model year. They do fail, but are often replaced unnecessarily as not.

The HP fuel pump is located in the engine valley, as you know. Engine removal is not required. I'm not sure why they would suggest it.

The P0087 DTC may indicate a bad pump, but more often it's something else. There must be much more evidence of pump failure, in addition to the code before they are related.

If the engine started after manual priming of the filter pump, the problem may be related to fuel supply, before the HP pump. I hope, for your sake, they eliminated that. Of all the possible issues, this is the most common. If a restart can be repeated after manual pumping, well, I'd look at something other than the HP pump. But that's just me.

Towing service from the boondocks, sucks.


How many miles on your rig? You do know your GM Diesel engine, including the fuel system, is covered by a zero deductible warranty for 5 years or 100K miles, don't you? All GM light truck Diesels have had this, and still do. You may have other warranties, as well. CA models have extended emission system warranties, and many parts of the fuel system are included (such as any related sensor or emission control device). Check the language of your paperwork. If they warranty repair any part of your original complaint, you should also get your towing bill reimbursed.

[IGO1320]

The dealer should be able to plug in its tech 2 and command full fuel pressure then read commanded and actual pressure, if it produces the pressure demanded and will hold it then more than likely the CP3 is good. A common cause of the dreaded P0087 is the injectors bypassing. I had the same problem and John Kennedy offers a towing program that tunes around it. I have another 30K on my truck since installing his program and the mileage towing is slightly better with no loss of power. I know I will eventually buy new injectors but if this delays it for 100K or so then it is money well spent.

As an aside, I think you should find another dealer or private shop if they can't diagnose the problem "for sure" and want to throw expensive parts at it.

[InvaderLane]

DMAX and IGO..

Guys.... really appreciate the input, especially now that the truck has been with the GM dealer for 13 days and with what appears to be an uncertain game plan.

The service rep. passed along to me that GM Detroit is not in agreement with the dealership tech's initial diagnosis of a failed High Pressure Fuel Pump and GM wants the tech to explore contamination or tank to filter/high pressure pump... fuel delivery problems.

I would like to have the opportunity to talk with the tech one on one, but that is not really possible at this point as the truck is over two hours from my house.

My thoughts are....if the engine runs after fuel filter manual priming, that eliminates the failure of the high pressure fuel pump scenario. The fuel tank was above the half full mark and the engine had been run for 4 hours before the engine quit so that in my mind eliminates the contamination scenario. So what's left? Lift/suction pump weak?.. causing inadequate fuel supply to the high pressure fuel pump?

Anyway... will keep you advised as this is unfortunately getting more interesting by the day...

David Lane

[rapidoxidationman]

Has anybody checked for air in the fuel lines? Maybe a bad O ring at the quick disconnect line in the engine bay or some such. Seems like a bit of clear plastic hose, thoughtfully installed, would reveal air bubbles if they were present.

[CoyleJR]

Invaderlane, call and get the codes from the dealer. They are looking at contaminated fuel in the hope that they can avoid an expensive warranty claim and blame you for using bad fuel. You need the codes to protect yourself and to get more accurate help here at TDP.

Good luck
John

[DmaxMaverick]

The truck doesn't have a fuel lift pump, or a "tank to filter/high pressure pump". It's suction all the way from the filler cap to the HP pump in the engine valley. The ONLY exception to this is if it is a van (has a priming pump, but doesn't operate during normal engine operation), or if someone added one, aftermarket.

This means, any leak in the fuel system, from the tank to the HP fuel pump, could allow enough air to enter to stall the engine. Priming with the manual pump at the filter will temporarily prime the HP pump, but an air leak will eventually cause a repeat of the condition. The HP fuel pump IS NOT self priming, and will not move fuel once prime is lost.

Prime it. Run it. Let it die. Open the fuel bleeder at the fuel filter (note any inrush or suction indication at that time). Pump until bubble-free fuel appears. How many pumps? If more than 4 or 5 pump strokes, then there is a significant leak between the tank and fuel filter bleeder. Could be a cracked filter housing, or a bad seal anywhere along the way.

Repeat the above test, if no air is located at the bleeder. This time, open the fuel filler cap and watch/listen for significant tank vacuum. If so, the fuel filler cap vent may be fouled. This should have been the FIRST diagnostic step by the tech, but I suggest doing it anyway.

[InvaderLane]

So, I just got off the phone (7 PM PST) 11-05-13 with the Mr. Goodwench service rep. at Rancho Chevrolet, who did not want to call me back and explain the "situation" during business hours?

Ok... so it seems, as indicated previously in this thread, that GM corporate is hoping to have the fuel system problem labeled as "fuel contamination" thus going outside of the warranty coverage...

I offered to drive the two hours north to meet with the Service Manager, the service rep. and the DMax tech. in order to come up with some kind of game plan in order to move forward...but that came with resistance.

This situation has now gonr beyond the reasonable...

I am just a workin man who needs a workin truck now...period.

Thanks for the continued input...

David Lane

[DmaxMaverick]

Just when your proctologist says, "Don't worry. This won't hurt a bit."

Good luck! Don't let them take you down that road without absolute proof. If it really is contamination, you only have to look to your last fill up for compensation. Sometimes, it may be better that way. They have (or should have) insurance for these incidents, and they don't have to deal with Government Motors.

[InvaderLane]

During this morning's service dept. pow-wow with my 2011 2500HD at the top of the "where do we go from here" list... the DMax tech. walked in and announced that he had just discovered metal in the high pressure fuel system. Whoa! Service Rep. later said that GM has agreed to replace the entire high pressure fuel system and that he had already ordered the $8,800. in replacement parts.

And just when I thought I might be on the hook for the fuel contamination scenario that GM Detroit was gunning for...

Many thanks guys for taking the time to provide me with your expertise here...

Best,

David Lane
San Diego

[rapidoxidationman]

Great news!
I'd be curious to hear if they find out exactly what failed, but if they're replacing everything from the fuel filter on down the line, that'd be enough to make me not ask too many questions....

[DmaxMaverick]

Yes, yes. Good news they will take care of you. As Rapid said, maybe better not looking too far into it..... If they replace everything, you'll never really know what went wrong. Don't sweat it, and move on!

[InvaderLane]

Yeah... for anybody following this thread... that's hard to believe, I know.
Since metal contamination was found in the high pressure system a month or so ago and everything downstream of the fuel filter had to be replaced... the final GM parts to arrive for this complicated job came in last week.. Two Fuel Injectors could not be located with any GM supplier or off the shelf from dealerships across the US even though the same Bosch injectors were available at independent supply houses. They had to have a GM part number on the box for the warranty according to the service mgr. I talked with... so it took three weeks to round everything up..

Work is almost complete according to the service rep. today... but the tech told him that he discovered contamination in the tank now...eeeeeeeeeeeeee!

So the question for you Duramax experts out there is, "Can contaminated fuel bypass the filter if it becomes plugged up with S... and if so... what do you think the likely hood is of metal particles coming from the tank? Seems to me the tank should have been checked first...but the metal particles thing seemed to have gotten ahead in line during diagnostics?

I don't have a good feeling about this obviously... and let you know when the final verdict is in...

David Lane

[DmaxMaverick]

No, it isn't likely possible the filter will allow detectable metal to pass. If the CP3 grenades, it can dump metal downstream. The injectors return fuel to the tank, and so does the pump. If the pump went, and you have metal in the tank, the pump is where the metal came from. Don't let them tell you otherwise.

[Kennedy]

Anything that you can see cannot pass through a filter that has not been compromised.

I run a Filtermag RA450 on my OE filters from day 1. This ensures that any of the nasty ferrous particles (even sub micron) are caught and held to the side of the filter can. There will be metal in the fuel as tanks, pipelines, tankers, pumps etc are commonly metal.

[GMC Tech]

There is a service bulletin that describes this failure and the list of parts to be replaced and cleaned. PIP4949C.

[InvaderLane]

Finally got my 2011 GMC HD truck back home today after 49 days at a Chevy dealership 120 miles away. Warranty provided a rental car the entire time which was some consolation. A quick summary...

Ten days or so was spent just trying to get the consulting GM Detroit Master Tech on board and behind the rare and suspected high pressure fuel pump failure along with general troubleshooting. ... tech flushes metal out of the rails... no more disagreements. Parts start trickling in... minus two fuel injectors and labeled as.... no stock available at GM..NO ETA...! Week six... all parts at dealership.. and work begins.

Here is the Tech's synopsis as written on my zero dollar total invoice...

CONTAMINATED FUEL SYSTEM CAUSED BY HIGH PRESSURE PUMP FAILURE

CRANK NO START-SCAN PCM, NO FAILURE CODES. CHECK CRANK SENSOR OPERATION AND CRANKING RPM'S-HAS NORMAL CRANKING SPEED AND RPM'S. CHECK FUEL API RATING-API OF 40. INSPECT FOR FUEL LEAKS AND AIR IN FUEL SYSTEM-NO AIR AND NO FUEL LEAKS. CHECK FUEL PRESSURE WHILE CRANKING...INSTALL PRESSURE GUAGE AT FUEL TEST PORT AND AND PUMP TO 10 PSI WITH FUEL PRIMER PUMP-CRANK ENGINE FUEL PRESSURE DOES NOT DROP. CALL TAC. INSPECT FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR AND SENSORS FOR METAL DEBRIS. FOUND FUEL SYSTEM CONTAMINATED WITH METAL FROM HIGH PRESSURE FUEL PUMP. SEE PIP5133, PIP5151, PIP4949C. REPLACE HIGH PRESSURE FUEL PUMP, REPLACE ALL FUEL INJECTORS, REPLACE LH & RH FUEL RAILS, REPLACE ALL INJECTOR LINES, REPLACE ALL LINES BETWEEN HIGH PRESSURE PUMP AND FUEL RAILS, REPLACE SUCTION SIDE FUEL LINES AT ENGINE, REPLACE INJECTOR RETURN LINE ASSEMBLY, REPLACE INDIRECT FUEL INJECTOR, REPLACE INDIRECT FUEL INJECTOR FUEL FEED LINE. REMOVE FUEL TANK AND INSPECT- FOUND CONTAMINATED FUEL TANK-DRAIN FUEL TANK. POWER WASH AND DRAIN FUEL TANK 3 TIMES. CLEAN AND FLUSH FRAME RAIL FUEL LINES FROM ENGINE TO FUEL TANK 3 TIMES. PROGRAM ALL NEW INJECTOR CODES INTO PCM.

Service Advisor said that the CP3 pump was already on its way to GM for autopsy, the failure of which probably cost them around $12,000 when you throw in a rental car.

Thank you all for providing your expertise and support!!!

David Lane

San Diego, CA

[More Power]

Thanks for the update. Posting a followup is always appreciated.

I'm glad your truck is back on the road.

Jim

[DieselDavy]

Thanks for the update David!
Please update here after a while, week, month, etc.
We'd love to hear how it runs compared to before. Fuel Economy, etc.
Especially let us know if it has to go back!
I'd be suspicious of the fuel tank/fuel lines cleaning part.
Thanks again,

[Kennedy]

One word: Filtermag