View Full Version : 2000 6.5 turbo starts & dies cold motor
I have the 6.5 in 1 ton dually, it has 69,000 miles. I had it for few weeks and no problems. I went to start it and it died after a few seconds. Did this several times till it wouldn't start. Waited a few and it started and died like turning the key off. It finally started and as soon as I throttled up to 2000 rpm's it died again. Finally it stayed running and drove down the street and everything was fine. Next day same thing...but after 10 tries it stayed running. This was with cold motor not hot. Please help?????
a5150nut
08-18-2013, 11:06
Sounds like a PMD gone south. Where is yours located? Still on the injecton pupm?
Need to do a few checks to narrow things down.
Can you hear the fuel pump running? Under floor boars inside frame just under your feet when behind the steering wheel. Looks like a fuel filter.
Can you open the fuel filter blead and do you get fuel or air?
Is the fuel shut off soliniod clicking with key on/off?
Have you lossened a fuel line or two to see if you have fuel to the injectors?
I think it is located by the pump. The fuel pump is running. I went over today and it started up fine. Last 2 days it wouldn't stay running.
Just from my experience, i would first suspect the pmd too. However check to make certain the ckp is giving an accurate signal (yellow wire iirc is signal- it shoild be a five volt square wave) and the oil pressure switch in the valley is good. These can noth cause problems and are hard to assess. Probly pmd though. Those thing are my arch nemisis
Neo
More Power
08-19-2013, 11:02
Some owners have removed the PMD, loosened then retightened the 4 screws securing the large power transistors on the underside of the PMD. The metal case of these transistors are part of the circuit, and a loose screw(s) or a combination of light corrosion and less than tight screws can interfere with circuit continuity. A screw(s) retighten can help solve the problem in some situations. Jim
Thanks everyone for the help, I will be sure to try these things before buying a new PMD.
Did you have any luck with yours? I am showing very similar if not identical issues with mine.
I haven't done anything yet because it hasn't been acting up. Now it is only doing it after it sits. If I start the truck everyday there's no problem. If it sits the second day it won't start, like it's not getting fuel. I have to use battery booster on it to jump it and finally started. After that it will start right up...is this still the PMD we were talking about?
DmaxMaverick
09-14-2013, 12:14
It doesn't sound like the PMD.
Before anything else, verify the health of the electrical system, batteries, and parasitic discharge. With too little battery power, slow or too short cranking cycles will not allow a cold start. Both batteries must be of equal health to effectively start after an extended off period. If that checks out, continue.....
It sounds like loss of prime. The pre-start prime cycle isn't enough to fully prime a system that's bled down, and the reason it takes additional cranking/cycles to start after a couple/few days. It may be worse with lower fuel tank levels, and/or inclined parking angle. Parking nose-down with a full tank may help the situation.
Possible causes, IF you have NO evidence of an external fuel leak:
Poorly sealed or leaking fuel manager. It may not leak fuel, but can leak air into the system over time. The same can apply to poor fuel line couplings, or failed fuel hose/lines.
Bad/wrong fuel filler cap. If it doesn't vent properly, fuel/air contraction over time will exploit any air leak (see above).
Failing fuel lift pump. Low performance, and/or failing check, possibly coupled with any/all of the above.
If you have any evidence of an external fuel leak, fix that FIRST. Not fixing it will hinder any of your other diagnostic efforts, and will often be the greatest contributor.
CedarGrove
09-14-2013, 14:38
I totally agree with Mav here. Don't tinker with the PMD until you have eliminated fuel leak first. Your symptoms are classic of losing prime. The link below would be a good place to start tracking down the leak.
On my 98, there is a short red wire behind the fuse center under the hood near the firewall on the driver side and I am not sure but I think your 2000 will be the same. Run a wire from battery + to this wire and you should hear the lift pump run. The next time the truck has been sitting for a few days, open the bleeder on the top of the fuel filter, then run the lift pump. If the first thing out of that bleeder is air, then look for the leak.
Making a fuel cap as described in the link below helped me discover rotting lines on top of the fuel tank and along the frame rails.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=23040
I totally agree with Mav here. Don't tinker with the PMD until you have eliminated fuel leak first. Your symptoms are classic of losing prime. The link below would be a good place to start tracking down the leak.
On my 98, there is a short red wire behind the fuse center under the hood near the firewall on the driver side and I am not sure but I think your 2000 will be the same. Run a wire from battery + to this wire and you should hear the lift pump run. The next time the truck has been sitting for a few days, open the bleeder on the top of the fuel filter, then run the lift pump. If the first thing out of that bleeder is air, then look for the leak.
Making a fuel cap as described in the link below helped me discover rotting lines on top of the fuel tank and along the frame rails.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=23040
Is this the red wire that is screwed on the back of the fuse box under hood? I tried it and it didn't do anything. Same thing as yesterday...got up this morning and it just cranks over. After a few times I can start to smell fuel but still doesn't start. I'm not seeing any fuel leaks. Got batteries on charge again, once it starts I can shut it off and rest of day it will start back up.
Wanted to add another thing, while I am cranking it over I have alot of smoke coming out from under motor, when it starts it quits. Throughout the day when I start it, it starts up with no smoke....only does it when it doesn't want to start. I don't know alot about diesels...
Wanted to add another thing, while I am cranking it over I have alot of smoke coming out from under motor, when it starts it quits. Throughout the day when I start it, it starts up with no smoke....only does it when it doesn't want to start. I don't know alot about diesels...
It just started and gray smoke was everywhere....as I was cranking it over it sounded like it wanted to start but I kept on it and it finally did. I shut it off after running for 1 minute, and it starts right up
CedarGrove
09-15-2013, 10:06
The loads of gray smoke makes me think you are getting fuel. I believe we need to confirm that the glow plugs are working. I was having this same issue last week and discovered that my glow plugs were not functioning, even though the wait to start light on the dash was coming on as expected.
Go out to the truck and turn the key on but do not start it. Watch your voltmeter on the dash. You should see it dip when the wait to start light comes on and come back up a bit when the light goes off. If there is no movement, this would indicate that the glow plugs are not pulling any juice and we need to chase that down.
My problem was a blown 20 amp fuse in the fuse center under the hood. I believe it was marked "ign". Oddly, there is a space for a 10 amp glow plug fuse in the fuse center but there is no fuse there in my 98. There is one in my 95.
Do that little test and report back.
We still want to hear your lift pump run though. I will snap some photos of the red wire on my truck.
Lewis
I turned the key on and when the wait to start light went out the battery gauge did move up. Like to see the wore your reffering to. Thanks
CedarGrove
09-15-2013, 11:31
I will send you a private message with a pdf with pictures and what not. Hang on. It was too big to post to the forum.
CedarGrove
09-15-2013, 11:50
Sounds like the juice is probably coming out of the controller. Now we need to know if the glow plugs are any good. Even if this is not your problem, it will be a good exercise. Everyone should know if their glow plugs are functioning as we approach winter.
Mav does a good job of describing the test procedure in post #3 of this thread. http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=41469&highlight=glow+plugs
CedarGrove
09-15-2013, 12:07
Post #5 in this thread may also be helpful. http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=39781&highlight=%22glow+plug+test%22
CedarGrove
09-15-2013, 12:11
Try this link to see my pdf. http://imgur.com/IiBaNPx
Please excuse the terrible spelling on my pdf. I am recovering from the flu and not all here at the moment.
CedarGrove
09-15-2013, 12:27
Is this the red wire that is screwed on the back of the fuse box under hood? I tried it and it didn't do anything. Same thing as yesterday...got up this morning and it just cranks over. After a few times I can start to smell fuel but still doesn't start. I'm not seeing any fuel leaks. Got batteries on charge again, once it starts I can shut it off and rest of day it will start back up.
It is not the wire attached to the back of the fuse block. See my pdf for a photo.
Plug the block heater in tonight. If she starts easier in the morning, that would point us more towards glow plugs.
Fuel leaks will likely not show up without a bit of pressure on the system. We are not really looking for places where fuel is coming out. We are looking for places where air is entering the system.
I feel like this is a glow problem but it could be a combination of both. Likely tired glow plugs.
I found the wire dangling like you said, I did hear it kick on. I will plug it in tonight and see how it starts tomorrow....Thanks
If it's the glow plugs...how hard is it to replace?
DmaxMaverick
09-15-2013, 19:52
The GP system is easy, any part of it. Certainly check it out, but even if you have some bad plugs, controller, or any other part, you still have other issues keeping you from a reliable start. If the GP system has issues, it would be the same, one day or ten. Starting OK on day one, but not on day two indicates something else.
I tried a new inline pump, just because it has sat for a while and was factory pump and not drove. It started right up and that was at 1:00 today, I got off at 5:00 and now it won't start again. Finally got it to start and it just dies like turning the switch off. I think I am back to the PMD? Maybe couple things wrong...
CedarGrove
09-16-2013, 15:52
If you open the bleeder on the filter and jump the lift pump, does fuel come spewing out? Might be less messy if you pull the hose up off the t-valve and put the end of that hose into a bottle. Open the t-valve, jump the lift pump. Good flow, bad flow, or no flow?
I will try that tomorrow....thanks
CedarGrove
09-17-2013, 12:49
I tried a new inline pump, just because it has sat for a while and was factory pump and not drove. It started right up and that was at 1:00 today, I got off at 5:00 and now it won't start again. Finally got it to start and it just dies like turning the switch off. I think I am back to the PMD? Maybe couple things wrong...
Wow. You're truck is making this hard. Hard cold starts does not seem like PMD to me, but the dieing like the switch was turned off certainly does. As it seems to be a new to you truck, replacing the PMD and remotely mounting it is something you would want to do anyway. It may or may not fix your current problem, but it will increase your reliability down the road. Having an extra known good PMD on hand is also important for troubleshooting (or to get you home on). All PMDs fail at some point.
Is this your daily driver? If so, life may be a bit stressful until these kinks are ironed out.
trbankii
09-17-2013, 12:54
If the GP system has issues, it would be the same, one day or ten. Starting OK on day one, but not on day two indicates something else.
I had an intermittent problem with the GP controller when I first got my truck. Drove me nuts. But with mechanical injection, mine isn't set up the same way. I figure with the computer it would throw a code?
CedarGrove
09-17-2013, 14:25
I had an intermittent problem with the GP controller when I first got my truck. Drove me nuts. But with mechanical injection, mine isn't set up the same way. I figure with the computer it would throw a code?
I had P0380 Glow Plug Circuit Performance when I was having my problems.
I will have new PMD and relocating kit will be here tomorrow. Get it on Saturday and see how it does. I already changed the in-line pump. cross my fingers...sounds like part of my problem is the PMD. But glow plugs won't act up is that correct? it either works or doesn't work?
CedarGrove
09-19-2013, 18:37
I will have new PMD and relocating kit will be here tomorrow. Get it on Saturday and see how it does. I already changed the in-line pump. cross my fingers...sounds like part of my problem is the PMD. But glow plugs won't act up is that correct? it either works or doesn't work?
It would be good to know if all of the plugs are heating. I would say you are getting voltage to all of the plugs. Now you need to know if they are able to do anything with that juice. Test the plugs. It's easy to do and good information to have.
trbankii
09-19-2013, 21:04
But glow plugs won't act up is that correct? it either works or doesn't work?
My issue was the glow plug controller being intermittent. Even with the computer, there is still the controller (relay), right?
CedarGrove
09-20-2013, 05:31
Good point. That is a possibility. Easy enough to monitor from behind the wheel during start up using the volt meter on the dash.
It would be good to know if all of the plugs are heating. I would say you are getting voltage to all of the plugs. Now you need to know if they are able to do anything with that juice. Test the plugs. It's easy to do and good information to have.
How do you test the plugs?
CedarGrove
09-20-2013, 09:44
See links in posts #17 and #18.
I got the new part PMD relocated and that with it dying is doing good now. Come home today and cranked and cranked and the more I tried to start it wanted to start a little more. Finally started and after that it will start right up...seems like it's loosing it's prime or something...
CedarGrove
09-25-2013, 18:08
See link in post #10 to try to determine if there is a leak in the fuel system.
How do I check post 10? not to good on here?
DmaxMaverick
09-26-2013, 15:26
How do I check post 10? not to good on here?
Your last post is #38 (reply #37). Scroll to the top of the posts and look to the right. Post #10 will be on page one, click page 1. Scroll down to post #10. You can change your page display options in your control panel, to increase/decrease the number of post you see on pages. The max is 40, which fits this entire thread, until one more reply, after the next reply.
I took it to a buddy's shop and had a bad battery on passenger side. It turns over lot faster now. Going to give it a day or two and see how it starts. If it still does it he said it may be glow plugs....
DmaxMaverick
09-28-2013, 08:03
I took it to a buddy's shop and had a bad battery on passenger side. It turns over lot faster now. Going to give it a day or two and see how it starts. If it still does it he said it may be glow plugs....
Still working problem in your original post? Won't stay running?
If so, FORGET about the glow plugs, at least for now. If it starts ONCE (then dies), the glow plugs are not that problem.
Replacing a bad battery is always an improvement, but, if it starts once, that wasn't the problem.
Revisit the fuel supply. Put a gage on it, watch it while it's happening. Install a clear fuel line on the return out of the pump with a loop. Watch for bubbles. Low/no pressure and/or bubbles IS the pump operation, and/or a leak.
Still working problem in your original post? Won't stay running?
If so, FORGET about the glow plugs, at least for now. If it starts ONCE (then dies), the glow plugs are not that problem.
Replacing a bad battery is always an improvement, but, if it starts once, that wasn't the problem.
Revisit the fuel supply. Put a gage on it, watch it while it's happening. Install a clear fuel line on the return out of the pump with a loop. Watch for bubbles. Low/no pressure and/or bubbles IS the pump operation, and/or a leak.
What pump are you referring to? I put a new in-line pump on...
DmaxMaverick
09-28-2013, 09:19
Injection pump.
Injection pump.
Ok thanks...but would it put off a code if it was bad? I know having a good battery in it now, it starts up lot easier now. You don't think the bad battery was any of the issues?
DmaxMaverick
09-28-2013, 10:14
Not necessarily in itself (the battery). Like I said, if there was enough juice for ONE start, that wasn't THE problem, although that doesn't mean it wasn't a problem. Once the engine is running, however long, the start components worked, at least once. If it dies after that, the cause of it dying was NOT the starting components. Low voltage can cause starting/running issues, BUT, if there's enough power for a cold start, even once, there was absolutely enough power to continue running. Look elsewhere for the stalling problem.
Diesel engine operation is very simple. Only 3 things are required to continue running. Fuel, oxygen/air and heat. If you have all 3, it runs. Take one away and it doesn't. Simple.
The IP won't trip a trouble code if the fuel supply stops, for whatever reason, most of the time. Trouble codes set if there's a problem with an IP circuit, component or sensor error.
there was no codes at all...The dieing after start has stopped after relocating the PMD with new with cooler. The only problem I have now is hard start. Had to put the battery booster on it to jump it. After replacing with the new battery it turns over a lot faster and starts right up. If was a huge improvement on starting so far. Maybe wait to see how it does in the morning....after the charger was put on it struggled to start at times, but on of the cables on charger needs redone. After first start it, I could start it right back up. Now it starts even faster with new battery
DmaxMaverick
09-28-2013, 10:54
If you're having no issues now, that could have been the cause of your hard starts. Slow cranking makes for hard starts.
Now, it may be a good time to check the health of your glow plugs, while everything else is working. Checking is simple, just remove the spade connector from the plug, and check continuity to ground with a test lamp or VOM. Winter is on the way, so you'll want the system at its best.
If you're having no issues now, that could have been the cause of your hard starts. Slow cranking makes for hard starts.
Now, it may be a good time to check the health of your glow plugs, while everything else is working. Checking is simple, just remove the spade connector from the plug, and check continuity to ground with a test lamp or VOM. Winter is on the way, so you'll want the system at its best.
Ok, Thank you and everyone else for the help. I will post again tomorrow or the next day if there is any issues. Have to say I great group !!!
Well...today it fired right up ! :)
3 days now and it starts up each morning and afternoon...I am thinking the bad battery was my starting issue....thank goodness !! I appreciate all the help from everyone !!
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