View Full Version : intercooler after the radiator?
HANK1948
05-08-2005, 05:53
I have a 2004 dodge cummins intercooler its so big I can only fit it behind the radiator and it fits good with very few mods, of course I would have to remove the fan and shroud and install a electric fan, which I found a company that sells a fan that they designed it to cool any diesel truck, so is this a dumb idea ? is this going to rob my radiator ? I think IAT is going to be cool because this intercooler is twice as big as anything Ive seen on these trucks
I think the rad throws off to much heat and it will be absorbed by the intercooler. Move the radiaitor back and install it in front.
Dvldog 8793
05-08-2005, 10:41
Howdy
You will be drawing heated air through the IC from the radiator. Potentially you could end up with an interheater! Also I would make sure you do allot of research on the electric fan issue, especially if you do any towing. All the ones I've seen don't move anywhere close to the amount of air that a regular fan does.
Hope this helps...
L8r
Conley
We have all read about the electric fans don't move enough air but has anyone tested them on a truck to see?
eracers999
05-08-2005, 15:03
I just intercooled mine, mounted up behind bumper and down the frame, ill have more details later but i will say this, IT WORKS AWSOME. Total investment, 350$.
Kent
To Joey D:
I've been running dual electrics fans in my 6.5l truck, for the last 5 years. I ran them when the motor was stock (don't recommend it). Now in a one year old newly built up long lock (my current setup). To be on the safe side, do not run strictly electric fans unless you have the 97' upgraded cooling system.
Kent,
I need to hear your intercooler story, and pics if you have.
Thanks
Buzz
Iwould not recommend mounting an intercooler behind the radiator,it will in fact become an interHEATER. you will trying to pull hot air through the radiator then through the cooler,hence heating the air.As far as the size of the cooler,be careful too large of a cooler will give a tremendous pressure drop. The book "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell has some good information on sizing.That's just my thoughts on the idea.
eracers999
05-10-2005, 22:52
Buzz:
Its going to be a little before i can post any details, next 5 to 7 are going to be real tough days for me.
Kent
moondoggie
05-11-2005, 05:03
Good Day!
[i]
eracers999
05-11-2005, 23:28
Well ill give the story a shot here, cant come up with the pics for a while as i have been leaving in the dark and getting home in the dark. I got the cooler off ebay from a guy named Tony Xiao in Temple City, CA. Ph(626) 589-6720 Opening bid was 199.00 witch i got it for, buy it now price was 225.00 The cooler its self has a core of 12x24x3 width with tanks 31 inches. 3 inch inlet and outlets. I recieved it and was impressed, it was as descibed, polished aluminum, tig welded, heavy duty well constructed cooler. Next i delt with a guy named charlie at intakehoses.com in spokane WA. Phone (509) 489-6147 . Spent 128.10 there on 2) 2.5 to 3in inserts, 3)45deg 3in elbows, 4)90deg 3in elbows and 4) 2ft sections of aluminum 3in piping. I had a bunch of clamps already so i didnt figure in the cost. Both venders were Excellent to deal with. Took me 8 hrs to fabricate the mounts and complete the job. Had to cut the snorkel on the intake, turn the turbo outlet down, lengthen the boost sensor wires and make some room on the inner fender towords the front. Used a stainless .500 rod for the forward mount and mig welded mounting flanges to it. I shamefully used 2 ford taurus upper radiator mounting brakets for the rear of the cooler and simply welded those to a L shaped steel braket and bolted it to the x member. I know pictures would tell the story. I believe the cooler is descibed as having a bar plate mounting. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7970048491
I dont know what im doing copying and pasteing but i tried. I also want to say that i tried to interest both of these vendors in to being advertisers on the dieselpage as i feel their products will stand their ground when scrutinized. Im very pleased with the quality. Yes my friends a intercooler set up is affordable and very much needed on the 6.5 . I know im getting better fuel mileage, just dont have hard no's to back it up yet.
Best to all of you!!
nite
Kent
moondoggie
05-12-2005, 05:31
Good Day!
Wow - thanks. I'm sure I'm not the only one here happy for these details. If time ever allows (which doesn't sound likely), an article in the Page would be awesome. If that doesn't happen, I believe I could even install one of these based on the information you've provided, & I'm not very handy. :D
Blessings!
Nice to see it can be done!
Im planning on putting in a Scania intercooler in my 6,2.
Of course in front of the radiator and I know it'll be a lot of work to make place for it.
This cooler core is actually 40x20x3 inches :D
99gmccrew
05-16-2005, 20:33
Kent, I have the same IC and got it on ebay too. The truck tows with the big boys now. It's by far the best thing I've done to this rig. I think it totalled around $500 with all the clamps and fittings. Worth every penny! ;)
More Power
05-17-2005, 06:01
I talked to a member on the phone yesterday about intercooling his 1995 for an upcoming Duramax installation. He's a fabricator, so I suggested buying a Dodge Cummins IC (I got mine off eBay for $175), cut off the aluminum end-tanks, then fabricate new end-tanks using 1/8" alum sheet that fit the available space between the grille and the rad support - with clearance for the park & headlights.
The IC installation I did is working great, but I did lose the inner most lamp for each park light. I believe that fabricating the end-tanks out of 1/8" sheet stock would allow keeping the parking lamp housings intact.
A modified A/C condenser fits ahead of the IC, once the hood latch bracket had been modified.
You're on you own for ATF or auxiliary engine oil coolers. I didn't need them for my installation.
MP
[ 05-20-2005, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: More Power ]
I am relativly new to the upgrading of the 6.5. Thank God for this board, with the info I received here I have a whole new truck. I find no need to buy a new one.
My question though is what exactly is an intercooler and how does it work? I don't pull very much any more so is it realy needed?
Newbie :confused:
99gmccrew
05-17-2005, 20:28
The turbo-charger compresses the intake air, which in turn can raise the tempurature in excess of 300F(heat of compression). This heat can significantly raise engine gas tempuratures to dangerous levels when towing. The intake air sensor tells the ecm to start to pull back on fuel to try to save the engine from melting, this robs the truck of horsepower when it is needed most. The intercooler works like a radiator and cools the intake air which also makes the fuel/air mixture more dense which in theory makes more horse power. With the cooler intake temps the computer does not pull back on fuel which saves horsepower from being robbed. For daily driving you may not need an IC,but in towing situations they make our 6.5's act like powerstrokes and cummins which have came with intercoolers as standard equipment. I hope this makes sense. ;)
Bulls99Sub
05-18-2005, 04:50
I am planning to go the same route as Kent and a few others. Just bought an intercooler from an ebay vendor. It is the same as the one that Kent bought, except they now have one that is an extra inch thicker. 31x12x4 inch intercooler for $245. Incidentally, the 31x12x3 inch intercooler is now going for $195. It is probably going to be a month before I can round up the rest of the stuff and get it on the truck, but I will break out the camera and take plenty of pictures. Performance enhancement provided by the intercooler will be included in the baseline performance thread that I posted.
Thanks, Bull
Bulls99Sub
05-18-2005, 04:56
Kent and others with homemade intercoolers,
Forgot to ask this question in the previous post. Kent, I see that you used 3 inch piping throughout. Do you think it would be better to use 2.5 inch piping and step up to 3 inch just through the intercooler, or step up to 3 inch right after the turbo and before the intake? It probably does not make a significant difference, but theoretically, 2.5 inch piping would mean less volume to pressurize in the intercooler tract. May also provide more clearance.
Thanks, Bull
Made perfect sense! Now I just need to scrape up the funds to get one. I will start with the cooling mod first but the intercooler is a must I think. Thanks to all who have post on this thread.
Bbudus
eracers999
05-18-2005, 21:46
Bulls99sub: My theory is bigger is better on the piping issue. I used 3 all the way and would do it again.
Kent
84 Convert
05-19-2005, 20:00
Hey all, I was studying a Cummins set-up in a Dodge (since that's what I got my turbo from) and they use what looks to be 3.5" tubing within 4-5" of the turbo outlet through the I/C then back to the intake where it is necked down again. In short, it sounds like kent has the right idea.
Gregg
eracers999
05-20-2005, 18:25
Update , Tech 1 data on a day with the intercooler. I wont bore you guys with to many dum details. It was 88 deg, load gross about 15k, my goal was to see if i could get the intercooler air temp as hot as possible. The hottest i could get it was in a long hill, road speed 89 mph, full pedal, 17lbs boost and holding that speed long enough to get a max reading of 131 deg. It was tough getting it that hot. 75 mph cruise 9 lbs boost in a head wind it would only read out at 110 deg. Let me tell ya that is a hell of a improvement over stock, IAT would go anywhere from 260 to 300 deg in a heartbeat if you even thought of putting the pedal down. There is no use in posting other data because i couldent heat it up.
This cooler does the job ! End of story
Kent
HANK1948
05-22-2005, 16:21
Kent, do you have any pics of your install? I just bought your same intercooler I would love to see how you installed it and your hose routing .can you maybe email me pics if you have any?
eracers999
05-22-2005, 21:26
Hank: Ill try to snap some off tomorrow. Wish i knew how to post them with in a posting.
Kent
Bulls99Sub
05-23-2005, 07:53
A couple of options to consider:
Rubber or Silicon connectors?
Perhaps add silicon hump hoses in critical locations?
Steel or Aluminum tubing?
It appears that Kent's aluminum tubing and rubber connectors are working very well.
Kent, would also appreciate any pictures that you were willing to share.
Bull
HANK1948
05-26-2005, 16:24
Kent, did you get a chance to get any pics of your install? the intercooler just arrived Iam anxious to see how you hooked it up thanks, Jason email: jkchenry@earthlink.net
eracers999
05-26-2005, 17:04
Im really Sorry, too dark now, got a big day tomorrow. Finally home at a decent hour and enjoyin a beer. Did you get any 90's and 45's and tubing for the install yet? It's really pretty easy.
Kent
eracers999
05-29-2005, 21:21
Here is a link to some photos of the install. Its really pretty easy to do, hope it helps.
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID=354930018
Best to all / Kent
Splitrimz
05-30-2005, 04:03
Kent, the link you provided is in a non accessible area.
Splitrimz
eracers999
05-30-2005, 04:52
Hmm, try this then,
6.5 intercooler pics (http://community.webshots.com/album/354930018FaSDqx)
Kent
Splitrimz
05-30-2005, 05:17
That worked great! Excellent photos and excellent piece of work. Congratulations!
Splitrimz
Splitrimz
05-30-2005, 07:21
Kent, what did you do to allow access to the fuel filter? On my '94 the reversed snorkle would interfere or at least cover it up.
Splitrimz
'94 6.5 TD Crew Cab Dually
eracers999
05-30-2005, 10:27
Splitrimz, thanks for the good words. In my info or what ever you call it you will notice the Davco 382 fuelpro, it is a large capacity filter set up that is mounted under the truck witch allowed me to do away with the stock fuel filter set up. The motivation i had for making this fuel pro work for me was because the stock filter was always blackened, that is because it gets so hot that it will break down the fuel and filter out the asphalt in the fuel.
My fuel temp with this set up on a hot day pullin hard only gets to 115 to 123 deg. You can cover up the stock filter, just makes it a little harder to change. One thing worth mentioning to you guys that may do this intercooler is that the intake itself will operate much cooler there for the filter and fuel temp will be lower.
Have a great day / Kent
I have received my 31x12x3 intercooler. Same vendor Kent used off ebay.
I also purchased components from Intakehoses.com. Both vendors excellent in terms of service and response. Product quality is top shelf as well. I have fabed a FOD guard to mount in front of the cooler. I will try my best to take my time and take pics to post for others. In the vast empty space of my head,I see this turning out very nice.
Thanks Kent for your insight!
Buzz
eracers999
06-09-2005, 18:51
Anytime Buzz, im very interested in your intercooler guard that you make, please be shure to post pics. The first day after the install of the cooler i ran over a dead dog in the hammer lane on I435 in KC around 1:00 am. Definatly need some sort of protection.
Thank you.
Kent
jeffscarstrucks
06-10-2005, 00:11
I was wondering how a set-up like this would work on a 93 (non electronic). I,m sure that the benifits could be the same but are there other fuel and air management issues to deal with. Or better yet....anybody done one lately? Thanks, JEFF
My IC project is complete.
Friday we are leaving for Hershey PA, towing the camper. Looking forward to the trip.
Thanks
Buzz
flintspear
07-26-2005, 14:00
Re Kent's intercooler, et al. Thanks a ton folks. I can't afford a Duuhhmax at 40 g's, but I just might be able to mod the 6.5 to do my job. It's been an ok engine so far, with about 85k miles on it, but am increasing my load. No problems with engine, but replaced compressor, harmonic balancer (which looked ok to me) and NV4500 tranny.
It is great to see you guys using those ICs from Ebay. I was looking at those and wondering about the quality. They have one the will just fit within the limited space that I am working with. And those prices are hard to beat!
TurboDiverArt
10-17-2005, 16:25
Originally posted by Kent:
Hmm, try this then,
6.5 intercooler pics (http://community.webshots.com/album/354930018FaSDqx)
Kent Hey Kent,
Can you possibly take a few pictures of the IC tubing routing from the turbo down through the fender well. Also the intake side of the tuning as it enters the engine compartment?
Art.
I have some ic install pics as well, I have towed a 8,000 Jayco and IC is just sweet.
I did buy 45 deg 2.5" to 3" silicone hoses for the turbo to pipe and pipe to intake. rubber every where else.
Thanks
Buzz
http://www.villagephotos.com/members/album.asp?folder_id=1490389
TurboDiverArt
10-19-2005, 16:16
Originally posted by BUZZ:
I have some ic install pics as well, I have towed a 8,000 Jayco and IC is just sweet.
I did buy 45 deg 2.5" to 3" silicone hoses for the turbo to pipe and pipe to intake. rubber every where else.
Thanks
Buzz
http://www.villagephotos.com/members/album.asp?folder_id=1490389 Hey Buzz, can't see the pictures. Tells me that my session has expired and wants me to login.
Which intercooler have you used? Did you use the same one as Kent?
Thanks!
Art.
jdmetcalf57
10-20-2005, 16:44
Kent or any of you that have added the intercooler.
Have any of you noticed a change in fuel mileage? What was the difference? I would like to add one also and with the ones on e bay it could be done quite economically. However a big part of my motivation would be an increase in mileage. If it lowered the mileage I would not do it.
It would not have to totally pay off in mileage but I would rather spend that money than send more to the oil companies.
TurboDiverArt
10-21-2005, 01:27
Originally posted by jdmetcalf57:
Kent or any of you that have added the intercooler.
Have any of you noticed a change in fuel mileage? What was the difference? I would like to add one also and with the ones on e bay it could be done quite economically. However a big part of my motivation would be an increase in mileage. If it lowered the mileage I would not do it.
It would not have to totally pay off in mileage but I would rather spend that money than send more to the oil companies. I'm with you there too. Even if it doesn't increase mileage I'd be interested from a safety standpoint when towing.
Only downside I can think of is that in the winter it may take longer to warm up with all the cold air being pumped into the upper intake. The price you have to pay...
Art.
rjschoolcraft
10-21-2005, 05:01
All of the "alleged" negatives that get batted around by those of you who have yet to install an intercooler are just that...alleged. There are no negatives to installing an intercooler. You will be amazed at the difference it makes.
Now, for me, I hate to see chincy, hacked up approaches with tubes running outside the frame rail behind the wheel. The Kennedy/Spearco/Turbonetics kit is a clean install and works great. I, too, was really worried about it's cost. Now, the only regret that I have is that I didn't do it sooner. It might have saved that other engine...
I'll also say again, that I don't think putting an intercooler in the flow path of the radiator (before or after) is a good idea for the 6.5. The cooling system is barely adequate even after all the mods and the added heat load from an intercooler in-line should be avoided.
[ 10-21-2005, 05:21 AM: Message edited by: ronniejoe ]
jdmetcalf57
10-21-2005, 07:57
RonnieJoe,
If I remember right you have had your IC installed for some time. Did you notice any difference in fuel mileage either more or less?
rjschoolcraft
10-21-2005, 08:22
Nothing I have done has affected mileage positively or negatively. I average right at 8 towing and 15.5 solo highway.
Speed and road conditions seem to be the only factors that matter. For instance, on a 3916 mile round trip to Las Vegas for SEMA 2003, I averaged 6.9 mpg. I was by myself and running hard the whole way. In March/April 2004, we took a 3142 mile round trip to the Florida Keys and averaged 7.8 mpg. I wasn't running quite as hard as the other trip. In the summer of 2004, we traveled 2750 miles round trip to Boston on vacation and averaged 8.1 mpg. I installed Kennedy's performance injectors after the Las Vegas trip and installed a Kennedy boost control before the summer vacation.
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