IAT Readings

[DA BIG ONE]

Who knows what IAT reading would be at say 14psi boost @ WOT, and using smaller IC mounted between frame rails?

200+ degrees normal, or?

I'm suspecting the IC I paid so much money for is not up to the task!

[ 10-03-2005, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: DA BIG ONE ]

[JoeyD]

I think Kennedy claims 30 or so degrees above abient, so unless it's 170 degrees out your not doing good.

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by Joey D:
I think Kennedy claims 30 or so degrees above abient, so unless it's 170 degrees out your not doing good. JD, I'm right now installing water injection after IC this should help.

[HANK1948]

I installed a intercooler (just like KENTS) 31x14x3 and 3in in and out. The IAT before the int. @ 7psi was 240 deg. at full load, now at full load, 20psi is 155 deg ,big difference I would say, of course if I back down the boost a bit It would bring down the temp a little, but I like it there :D

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by HANK1948:
I installed a intercooler (just like KENTS) 31x14x3 and 3in in and out. The IAT before the int. @ 7psi was 240 deg. at full load, now at full load, 20psi is 155 deg ,big difference I would say, of course if I back down the boost a bit It would bring down the temp a little, but I like it there :D I have the smaller IC from B&D fits between the frame rails (4wd) if I remember correctly it was over $1k and does little to nothing as an IC! This just stresses the fact that gauges that monitor as much as possible are a must in all situations where mods are done.

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by DA BIG ONE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HANK1948:
I installed a intercooler (just like KENTS) 31x14x3 and 3in in and out. The IAT before the int. @ 7psi was 240 deg. at full load, now at full load, 20psi is 155 deg ,big difference I would say, of course if I back down the boost a bit It would bring down the temp a little, but I like it there :D I have the smaller IC from B&D fits between the frame rails (4wd) if I remember correctly it was over $1k and does little to nothing as an IC! This just stresses the fact that gauges that monitor as much as possible are a must in all situations where mods are done. </font>[/QUOTE]I ran that cooler for a while. I could hit 80 over ambient with ease unloaded. Myself and Greg L have verified the 30* over ambient thing on numerous occasions.

[TurboDiverArt]

Originally posted by kennedy:
I ran that cooler for a while. I could hit 80 over ambient with ease unloaded. Myself and Greg L have verified the 30* over ambient thing on numerous occasions. Speaking from a racing standpoint, 30 degrees above ambient is excellent. Many would be happy with 80 degrees above ambient in a racecar.... As a comparison, on one of the Buick boards I frequent, guys are seeing MAT temps as high as 190 with big intercoolers and 30 psi of boost with 70 degrees of ambient temperature.

Art.

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by TurboDiverArt:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by kennedy:
I ran that cooler for a while. I could hit 80 over ambient with ease unloaded. Myself and Greg L have verified the 30* over ambient thing on numerous occasions. Speaking from a racing standpoint, 30 degrees above ambient is excellent. Many would be happy with 80 degrees above ambient in a racecar.... As a comparison, on one of the Buick boards I frequent, guys are seeing MAT temps as high as 190 with big intercoolers and 30 psi of boost with 70 degrees of ambient temperature.

Art. </font>[/QUOTE]So, I'm guessing it is the higher ambient we see herein the sub-tropics for my higher readings, or?

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by kennedy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DA BIG ONE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HANK1948:
I installed a intercooler (just like KENTS) 31x14x3 and 3in in and out. The IAT before the int. @ 7psi was 240 deg. at full load, now at full load, 20psi is 155 deg ,big difference I would say, of course if I back down the boost a bit It would bring down the temp a little, but I like it there :D I have the smaller IC from B&D fits between the frame rails (4wd) if I remember correctly it was over $1k and does little to nothing as an IC! This just stresses the fact that gauges that monitor as much as possible are a must in all situations where mods are done. </font>[/QUOTE]I ran that cooler for a while. I could hit 80 over ambient with ease unloaded. Myself and Greg L have verified the 30* over ambient thing on numerous occasions. </font>[/QUOTE]Well, then I must retract the - statement about the B&D IC, and get to the bottom of my heat issue. Monitoring engine temp w/scanner shows normal engine temps.

I guess measuring exhaust back pressure is in order too.

[TurboDiverArt]

Originally posted by DA BIG ONE:
Well, then I must retract the - statement about the B&D IC, and get to the bottom of my heat issue. Monitoring engine temp w/scanner shows normal engine temps.

I guess measuring exhaust back pressure is in order too. [/QB][/QUOTE]
The intercooler in absolute ideal conditions (not realistic) is to cool the charge air equal to the ambient temperature. If you are at 110 degrees ambient, you would never be able to get it cooler than 110. 40 degrees ambient, 40 degrees IAT. Now, ideal is not attainable so from reality standpoint, 30 degrees above ambient is excellent. If your smaller intercooler can only attain approximately 90 degrees above ambient then in 100-degree heat you

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by TurboDiverArt:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DA BIG ONE:
Well, then I must retract the - statement about the B&D IC, and get to the bottom of my heat issue. Monitoring engine temp w/scanner shows normal engine temps.

I guess measuring exhaust back pressure is in order too. </font>[/QUOTE]The intercooler in absolute ideal conditions (not realistic) is to cool the charge air equal to the ambient temperature. If you are at 110 degrees ambient, you would never be able to get it cooler than 110. 40 degrees ambient, 40 degrees IAT. Now, ideal is not attainable so from reality standpoint, 30 degrees above ambient is excellent. If your smaller intercooler can only attain approximately 90 degrees above ambient then in 100-degree heat you

[TurboDiverArt]

Originally posted by DA BIG ONE:
Going to another larger IC core would be ideal, but I'm restricted to location w/4wd, then the issue of it not facing forward "I'll do the scoop suggested here to make up for this".

Back to American iron, only real speed I have is my V-rod 9.7 at 136 mph, then there is my XB12r Buell not quite as fast in 1/4 but can carve its way through almost anything at very high speeds, so at least I get the thrill and hope not to spill.

I can't afford the Camaro, or GNX of my dreams, but at least the dreams are free.

Auctions here are crazy w/deep pocket types takin all the iron over seas.
Thanks. I thought Kennedy's was the same for 2WD or 4WD? Does BD have two different ones? I think directing the airflow will help you out a lot.

You guys on bikes kill me. You must be nuts. Won't catch me going 135 on a bike. Getting to 135 isn't the problem, it's during the shut down that I think would get me. Realizing after 9 seconds of acceleration that I have to slow down. I'll stick with having a roll cage surround my a$$ thank you very much!! I use to race dirt bikes and quads but never got into street bikes for some reason. It's all about the adrenaline, no matter how you get it!

Art.

[G. Gearloose]

I'm not quite on board the WM after IC, ...

The cooling effect of water mist comes from its change of state from liquid to vapor, Under 12-15 #pressure, you need at least 225 degrees to change its state from liquid to vapor, temps you won't likely see post-ic.

The WM would be much more effective pre-IC, but that may only be practical down south.

WM post IC would cool your combustion temps, but may hurt efficiency. However the expansion of the droplets during the compression stroke cools the temp prior to ignition, but would effectively raise CR due to creation of rapidly expanding steam during the compression stroke, and sounds scary for stock CR's

i'm sure someone else has figgured out the scince on this.

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by G. Gearloose:
I'm not quite on board the WM after IC, ...

The cooling effect of water mist comes from its change of state from liquid to vapor, Under 12-15 #pressure, you need at least 225 degrees to change its state from liquid to vapor, temps you won't likely see post-ic.

The WM would be much more effective pre-IC, but that may only be practical down south.

WM post IC would cool your combustion temps, but may hurt efficiency. However the expansion of the droplets during the compression stroke cools the temp prior to ignition, but would effectively raise CR due to creation of rapidly expanding steam during the compression stroke, and sounds scary for stock CR's

i'm sure someone else has figgured out the scince on this. Been thinking long and hard on this, so far seen WI a 30 deg drop after truck warms up and IAT climbs.

Considered pre IC but Bill Heath says IC will collect the water, how much is anyones guess.

May just remove WI.

[TurboDiverArt]

Originally posted by DA BIG ONE:
Been thinking long and hard on this, so far seen WI a 30 deg drop after truck warms up and IAT climbs.

Considered pre IC but Bill Heath says IC will collect the water, how much is anyones guess.

May just remove WI. I ran alcohol injection on my street GN back when few were doing it in the Buick world. If you put the WI before the IC, the charge will further cool in the IC and Bill is correct, it will pool in the intercooler or up pipe at a low point. You definitely don't want to do this.

In your situation, you are seeing high IAT temps post IC so will benefit from WI there. I'm not sure the benefits but if you are seeing temps in the 190 range it will cool them down.

I'm not sure for a diesel here. With gas, the rate of expansion of liquid water into steam is slower than the expansion of gas from the combustion event. I know in a gas engine what you are worrying about is a non-issue. If the expansion of diesel gasses at combustion is slower than the water into vapor then there may be a concern. I personally don't think so but that's a guess. If that was the case any WI setup regardless if with an IC or not would have this problem when cold. I don't know what the normal IAT readings are for a non-intercooled 6.5TD. I would imagine at rest or under low load is probably only in the 200 range and most likely below 255. If this is the case then starting up the truck, driving a little, still having low IAT temps and then stomping on it would flow small water droplets into the combustion event that would not change into vapor until the cylinder temps rose above 255 or maybe 212 where water "boils". I'm not sure I understand the 255 temps vs. the 212 temp.

Either way, I would not be too concerned about it. I have thought about getting an Aquamist nozzle and hooking it to a Hobbs switch set for 10-11 psi (I got one lying around somewhere). That way it never comes on unless I'm really standing on it (above 10 psi). You should have a manual button so that if running with the stock computer and your transmission downshifts during towing, RPM's go up, boost goes down, EGT's skyrocket you can manually hit the WI and cool things down. Just a thought.

Hey Big One, where the heck did you mount your tank on a Suburban? How big is the tank? Did you do any test as to how much water flows (gallons) in a given time on high? You should probably know this for a long tow so you can estimate when more water is needed. Guess freezing is not a concern for you during the winter, huh? On the GN I used an alcohol and water mixture with a little Murphy's Mystery Oil as pump lubricant.

Art.

[G. Gearloose]

The elevated boiling point was mentioned due to the pressure...
Since 14.5 psi boost is roughly two atmospheres, at that pressure, water needs to heat to over 265 degrees to vaporize. Well below post-ic temps, I suspect.

[Billman]

WMI after an Intercooler works nicely.

Especially with a little booze...

[DA BIG ONE]

Hey Big One, where the heck did you mount your tank on a Suburban? How big is the tank? Did you do any test as to how much water flows (gallons) in a given time on high? You should probably know this for a long tow so you can estimate when more water is needed. Guess freezing is not a concern for you during the winter, huh? On the GN I used an alcohol and water mixture with a little Murphy's Mystery Oil as pump lubricant.

Art. [/QB]Used a current military water jerry jug, lashed it to the brackets of second row seat for testing.
Flow is about 30 oz per min but pump only has 30 psi output, so after overcoming whatever boost is then that is what is getting into intake stream 10/15 lbs. I think a 60 psi pump would be better.

[TurboDiverArt]

Originally posted by G. Gearloose:
The elevated boiling point was mentioned due to the pressure...
Since 14.5 psi boost is roughly two atmospheres, at that pressure, water needs to heat to over 265 degrees to vaporize. Well below post-ic temps, I suspect. Never thought about the effects of pressure on the boiling point. Makes sense.

Art

[TurboDiverArt]

Originally posted by DA BIG ONE:
Used a current military water jerry jug, lashed it to the brackets of second row seat for testing.
Flow is about 30 oz per min but pump only has 30 psi output, so after overcoming whatever boost is then that is what is getting into intake stream 10/15 lbs. I think a 60 psi pump would be better. [/QB]Only 30 psi? Is that the pump that came with the kit? We usually use a Warlboro pump hot-wired to the alternator post. Pressures are usually between 70 and 100 psi depending on voltage. You are flowing about twice the water as I was injecting so you have more flow, pressure would be lower for the same pump. Remember, higher pressure at the nozzle is going to aid in atomizing the water. Same principal as high-pop injectors.

Art.

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by TurboDiverArt:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DA BIG ONE:
Used a current military water jerry jug, lashed it to the brackets of second row seat for testing.
Flow is about 30 oz per min but pump only has 30 psi output, so after overcoming whatever boost is then that is what is getting into intake stream 10/15 lbs. I think a 60 psi pump would be better. Only 30 psi? Is that the pump that came with the kit? We usually use a Warlboro pump hot-wired to the alternator post. Pressures are usually between 70 and 100 psi depending on voltage. You are flowing about twice the water as I was injecting so you have more flow, pressure would be lower for the same pump. Remember, higher pressure at the nozzle is going to aid in atomizing the water. Same principal as high-pop injectors.

Art. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Yep, only 30psi pump came in kit.

Higher pressure it will be soon and if it works out I'll have it activate via temp instead of boost.

As for tankage, I already have 43 gal at rear, looking to retrofit another 30+ gal tank (from gas burb) on l/s frame rail for extra diesel fuel, then I have area for another 15/20 gal water tank on r/s frame rail and it would need a heat shield because of exhaust system.

Another area of interior is behind inside 1/4 trim panel a pillow tank after all sharp edges are made pillow tank frendly.