safe movement range of a travel trailer with a ball hitch

[gary_lucas]

On our latest trip, I ended up trying to go down a deserted, unmaintained backroad.

Got about 250 meters into it when I realized there was no way I was going to be able to make it with the truck and trailer.

On the way in I had the truck and trailer at about 15 degree angles to each other, IE the trailer was twisted about 15 degrees from the truck.

At a t - junction I backed the trailer up a hill, and managed to turn around.

It was very touch and go. I'll have to dig through my receipts to see what town it was in. I'd like to make a note!

I'm wondering what the total 3 dimensional safe range of movement on a ball hitch AND a 5th wheel is. We made it out this time and I did investigate the tires / hitch mechanism / trailer tongue thoroughly and I don't think I have a problem. But I'd ideally like to know what is technically feasible with these things.

Thanks allot.

[gary_lucas]

So after doing a pile of research it sounds like a regular ball hitch has about 15 degree's of free movement before causing substantial stress, free movement being twist from the tow vehicle and up down from the tow vehicle.

I still haven't been able to get a reasonable explanation for 5th wheel hitches, I'll probably email a manufacturer and see what they say.

Gary

[DmaxMaverick]

Interference. Some configurations allow for more, some less. WD hitch platforms, less. 5th wheel hitches are dependent on the type (swivel or stationary), and design. The maximum deflection from straight and level is when the interference occurs. If you need more deflection than a ball allows, use a pintle.

[gary_lucas]

Yah, if i was going to keep my current trailer I might consider a pintle... Or one of the fancy articulating hitches...

I'll have to do some homework to figure out which of the sliding 5th wheel hitches has the most freedom of movement, mostly because my track record of driving into stupid places isn't that good :p

G

[DmaxMaverick]

I have a Husky (Reese clone, at 1/2 the price) 15K 5th wheel hitch. It's very generous in all directions. More than will prevent bed rail interference (ask me how I know). I drag my big/heavy 5'er over the river and through the woods, and into the desert. Never a problem with the hitch limitations. It's capable of coupling more than the truck will legally haul. It's been very reliable for near 13 years.

For ball hitch trailering, I have a Draw-Tite frame mount (independent-doesn't rely on the bumper for capacity), V-5 class. Haven't exceeded its limits, either. Not that I haven't tried......

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2367&stc=1&d=1361601331

[gary_lucas]

I'll bite, how do you know?


I have a Husky (Reese clone, at 1/2 the price) 15K 5th wheel hitch. It's very generous in all directions. More than will prevent bed rail interference (ask me how I know). I drag my big/heavy 5'er over the river and through the woods, and into the desert. Never a problem with the hitch limitations. It's capable of coupling more than the truck will legally haul. It's been very reliable for near 13 years.

For ball hitch trailering, I have a Draw-Tite frame mount (independent-doesn't rely on the bumper for capacity), V-5 class. Haven't exceeded its limits, either. Not that I haven't tried......

[DmaxMaverick]

Actually, it was a rhetorical question. Since you ask, a few bed rail dings is the result of tight, steep switchbacks with a long, heavy 5'er, even with 8" clearance. The RV is 14K, so no chance of catching it once in motion, and it always happens left when looking right, or vice versa. Not bad, and nothing catastrophic, and barely noticeable, but not pretty. The point being, the hitch is more accommodating than any conditions I've encountered, or created.

[gary_lucas]

Thanks, that's good to know. I was thinking about that after my drive in california on Highway 58 I think it was (Carissa highway).

With a travel trailer it kind of didn't matter, but I was wondering if it was possible to whack the truck on a tight switchback (of which there were many), now I know...




Actually, it was a rhetorical question. Since you ask, a few bed rail dings is the result of tight, steep switchbacks with a long, heavy 5'er, even with 8" clearance. The RV is 14K, so no chance of catching it once in motion, and it always happens left when looking right, or vice versa. Not bad, and nothing catastrophic, and barely noticeable, but not pretty. The point being, the hitch is more accommodating than any conditions I've encountered, or created.

[DmaxMaverick]

58. I know it well. I travel that highway several times a year to camp in the desert. None of that will cause what I described. The high mountain roads within miles of my home will, on the other hand. If I'm not careful, it can happen in my own driveway. I popped the back window once, in my driveway. Zigged when I should have zagged. As someone once said, "Don't worry about the mule, just load the wagon". In other words, as long as the equipment is adequate and maintained, worry about bigger things.

[DennisG01]

Working at a marina (and owning a heavy, trailerable boat) I do A LOT of ball towing (no experience with the other types). I have never once worried about the angles when backing up and I'm no stranger to tight maneuvers. If you get turned so tight that the trailer is contacting the truck, well, you've gone too far. Short of that, nothing to worry about.

[gary_lucas]

I don't think I described it terribly well, it's hard to describe.

i'm talking about angle difference from truck and trailer on the same plane.

IE when the trail is uneven / washed out and the driver side of the truck and trailer go out of alignment (driver side truck is up, driver side trailer is down).

I was unable to find any hard information, the closest I could find was that 15 degree's is generally the maximum deviation before possible issues occur (damage to the trailer becomes likely).

This has nothing to do with turning radius.

I attached a picture of the trail I'm talking about, see the rut across the road that is about 45 degree's to the road? Imagine that about half again as deep, drive over that with a truck and trailer and the angle between the truck and trailer will deflect from each other as the wheels go through the rut one at a time.

If I were to keep that trailer i'd probably convert it to a pintle hitch. Make things a little more secure.


http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=1631

[DmaxMaverick]

I'm sure the picture doesn't do justice to the actual terrain, but it looks like nothing of any consequence. You'll never get close to the "15°" angle that's mentioned with no more than that, and never get close to the actual limitation of your heavy duty platform. The trailer won't necessarily be the limiting factor, either. A ball, receiver or extension can fail as easily as a trailer tongue (the reason we use chains). If your trailers are no more than what is in your picture (or even a lot more), I wouldn't worry about that. I've had long/heavy stock trailers full of horses (6+) through much deeper ruts, in steep switchbacks, in the rain/snow/mud, never injuring an animal or vehicle, on a 2-5/16" ball hitch (less articulation than a 1-7/8" or 2"). A pintle hitch does allow for a bit more articulation and capacity, but nothing outside of extreme will require it in non-commercial use. If your truck frame can handle the terrain, so can the trailer coupler.

[gary_lucas]

The rut I had just gone over was much deeper than that. Ok, that's all good to know. Thanks for the info :)




I'm sure the picture doesn't do justice to the actual terrain, but it looks like nothing of any consequence. You'll never get close to the "15°" angle that's mentioned with no more than that, and never get close to the actual limitation of your heavy duty platform. The trailer won't necessarily be the limiting factor, either. A ball, receiver or extension can fail as easily as a trailer tongue (the reason we use chains). If your trailers are no more than what is in your picture (or even a lot more), I wouldn't worry about that. I've had long/heavy stock trailers full of horses (6+) through much deeper ruts, in steep switchbacks, in the rain/snow/mud, never injuring an animal or vehicle, on a 2-5/16" ball hitch (less articulation than a 1-7/8" or 2"). A pintle hitch does allow for a bit more articulation and capacity, but nothing outside of extreme will require it in non-commercial use. If your truck frame can handle the terrain, so can the trailer coupler.

[DennisG01]

I think that the best advice I could give is that it's more forgiving than you think. I'd wager a safe bet that your trailer axle or spring shackles would contact the ground (preventing further tilting) before you exceeded the range of the movement of the coupler on the ball. That being said, different brands of couplers will sit on the ball differently. They all "cup" the ball pretty much the same, but it's the rest of the material where I've noticed differences (I see a lot of different setups). Add in different ball heights and draw bar (bar mounts) dimensions and you can really have a lot of variables.

Try this: Take the draw bar out of your hitch and attach it to the coupler. Then move the draw bar through it's range of motion. Add a 2' or 3' piece of wood (yardstick) to the draw bar to help visualize the range of motion... tape it onto the top of the draw bar, perpendicular to the draw bar.

And, just for fun...
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/519/park-truck-down-cliff-towing-boat-e1338477869463.jpg

[gary_lucas]

That's a great idea, i'll do that the next time we're out on the road.

BTW, where did you get that picture. Holy crap that's crazy.

G


I think that the best advice I could give is that it's more forgiving than you think. I'd wager a safe bet that your trailer axle or spring shackles would contact the ground (preventing further tilting) before you exceeded the range of the movement of the coupler on the ball. That being said, different brands of couplers will sit on the ball differently. They all "cup" the ball pretty much the same, but it's the rest of the material where I've noticed differences (I see a lot of different setups). Add in different ball heights and draw bar (bar mounts) dimensions and you can really have a lot of variables.

Try this: Take the draw bar out of your hitch and attach it to the coupler. Then move the draw bar through it's range of motion. Add a 2' or 3' piece of wood (yardstick) to the draw bar to help visualize the range of motion... tape it onto the top of the draw bar, perpendicular to the draw bar.

And, just for fun...
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/519/park-truck-down-cliff-towing-boat-e1338477869463.jpg

[DennisG01]

It's been floating around for years - I may have first saw it about 10 years ago. Did you notice that the driver is still in the truck? :eek:

[RMastin]

I have use a simple ball hitch on my Honda Gold Wing. Going around corners leaning in , the trailer is flat , im at 45 degree at least , with no problem. They make special ball hitches that pivit 90 degrees. There for bikes , not sure if they make one for full size RV trailer's. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NR5DqNfjcvo

[RMastin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3UGRV0dZ0c Got to love youtube , look what else i found , no price listed.

[gimpyhauler]

I'm an old phart at 62 and I can never remember ever having a problem problem on a road where I had to turn greater than a bumper hitch trailer could handle. Off road is another issue where personally I've never had the vehicle leaning one way while the trailer was leaning the other way and binding. However I have bent a bumper with the trailer tongue while backing into tight places.

Now I have a reversible gooseneck in my bed. I think it has more leaway sideslope to slide slope than a pumper pull setup.

Plus I can completely jack knife backing up without any bending of bumpers.

I am about to buy a new dump trailer and it'll also be a gooseneck. I'll never go back.