(NEWB) 6.5 turbo swap info needed on PCM ect ????

[mangled03gmc]

Hey guys whats up? Name is John, from MD. Been a long time hot rod guy, but kinda new to the diesel scene, have some questions. This seems to be the place to get info on this kind thing so here goes, hope I can get the answer I need.

Buddy of mine has a FRESH 6.5 that was just redone. 17-1 pistons, upgraded turbo, basically what they do to them to make more power, run better then the orig 21-1 engines. Anyway Dad and me been wanting to swap out the BBC-400 turbo trans in his 83 C-30 2x4 dually to a diesel. 4BT, 6BT cummins have been on the list, but I can swap this set up even up. This is complete with the harness, PCM, 4l80e trans ready to go. ??? Is, this should be a direct drop in, should run given that I will have the PCM and harness with it and all correct ? I realize the speedo, some gauges will not work, but never the less this should fire up correct? Any thing else I need to take into consideration other then some mild fuel line/system mods and gauge fixes? Thanks in advance all.

[mangled03gmc]

Hmmm no love for the newb ?? :eek: hahaha

[a5150nut]

Hmmm no love for the newb ?? :eek: hahaha

Welcome to TDP!

A lot depends on the year of the donner parts as to what all they will be looking for in senders. . . . a little more info would help get a better response.

[mangled03gmc]

Welcome to TDP!

A lot depends on the year of the donner parts as to what all they will be looking for in senders. . . . a little more info would help get a better response.

I want to say it is a 95 but will have to find out for sure. I do believe it is the electric injection set up, I am a newb as to if the years are diff as far as PCM and what not goes. Again truck that it will be going in is a 83 c30 dually. Is there that much more as in senders per year? This is the complete harness and everything. Thanks


John

[DmaxMaverick]

The senders and instrumentation between 83 and 96+ is very different, and 83 to 94-95 is only slightly less. EFI began in 1994, then OBD II began in 1996 (model years). If you have the electrical harness for the model year of the engine, it won't make that much difference to you during the install. Everything will (mostly) bolt on, and should work. Deal with the instrumentation as needed. Ideally, a late model IPC should be used, but it can be accommodated. If the donor is a 92-93, it will be MFI, and a snap to install (no PCM required). If it's a 1994, the PCM MUST match the pump, if it's a VIN "F" model (heavy duty, no smog equipment, the pump will work with later model PCM's, but the PCM won't work with later model pumps). If it's a 95+, they'll all play well together.

The major issue you'll have is with the 83 HVAC. The 6.5 turbo will occupy the same space as the AC evaporator housing.

[mangled03gmc]

The senders and instrumentation between 83 and 96+ is very different, and 83 to 94-95 is only slightly less. EFI began in 1994, then OBD II began in 1996 (model years). If you have the electrical harness for the model year of the engine, it won't make that much difference to you during the install. Everything will (mostly) bolt on, and should work. Deal with the instrumentation as needed. Ideally, a late model IPC should be used, but it can be accommodated. If the donor is a 92-93, it will be MFI, and a snap to install (no PCM required). If it's a 1994, the PCM MUST match the pump, if it's a VIN "F" model (heavy duty, no smog equipment, the pump will work with later model PCM's, but the PCM won't work with later model pumps). If it's a 95+, they'll all play well together.

The major issue you'll have is with the 83 HVAC. The 6.5 turbo will occupy the same space as the AC evaporator housing.


Excellent. That is as of now my biggest concern. If it will all go in, run. Indeed it does have the entire harness, pcm from the truck it came out of. I do realize that the instruments, RPM, oil pressure, water temp, volts will prob not work due to sender differences. Same way for when we redo boats and add new gauges. Normally the gauges need diff senders to match the ohms for the gauges, some times you can get lucky, the gm senders work.. So all in all this should bolt in, once powered up should run, trans should shift ect? Then worst case is going to be making the senders work with the gauges or vice versa? What about relocating the PMD if it has the electric pump or can it stay in the stock location? Thanks again all, this is much appreciated.

John

[DmaxMaverick]

Everything should work, but that doesn't mean it will. That's the same, no matter what you're doing. If you get all the essential electrical connected, and get the plumbing right, it should go without a hitch.

The PMD.....
It's best to get it out of the engine compartment, on a very large heat sink, and into a stream of fresh, cool air. It will require a cable extension (get a good one). Otherwise, if you can't get it out of the engine compartment, it's best left on the pump. You can always add one later. Leaving a working PMD on the pump is an excellent backup, as you can always go back to it, if the other fails (not that it would ever happen, but it does). You should have a working spare available at all times, and the pump is as good as any place to store it.

You will also need an APP module (the electronic skinny pedal). The EFI's have nowhere to connect a throttle cable.

[mangled03gmc]

Hey thanks a ton man. I will verify tom if it is a manual or EFI set up. I am going to bet it is a efi set up. I take it the APP is needed only for the EFI set up? Does this module kinda work like a TPS in gas set ups? Other then the gauge and sender possible issues this seems to be a pretty strait forward swap.. Can the senders from the BBC be used in the 6.5?

Anything have to be changed on the fuel lines? And does the diesel set up use a intank or on the rail fuel pump as well as a pump at the engine.. Thanks again



John

[DmaxMaverick]

The APP is unique to EFI. It is similar to a TPS, but not interchangeable.

Most of the senders fit, but the PCM requires them for engine performance parameters. They need to be correct. This doesn't mean you can't have multiple senders for instrumentation.

The fuel supply system is simple, but requires a return line. The electric lift pump is frame mounted, with no mechanical lift pump. I've heard of some using the in-tank pump, but I wouldn't recommend it. The 6.5L fuel supply is low pressure, unlike the EFI gassers. 4-10 PSI is all that's needed at idle. The high return rates of the Diesel demands a lot of volume, so the gasser pumps don't last long. Higher fuel pressure can also cause IP problems. The "pump" in previous posts refers to the IP, or Injection Pump. The lift pump is powered by an OPS (Oil Pressure Switch), to ensure fuel isn't pumping while the engine isn't running (like after a collision). Early models are powered directly from the OPS, and later models are relayed. It is preferred to relay the lift pump, as the OPS will fail much more often/early with the higher load. Kennedy sells a lift pump control kit that includes everything needed to control lift pump power, and includes a "prime" circuit to manually operate the pump, like after a filter change (very handy), while maintaining the safety factor. A little pricey, but worth it in the long run. Otherwise, you'll want to retain the OEM Diesel fuel supply system.

[john8662]

As far as gauges, the gauges on the OBDI stuff are independent of the PCM. The 80's cluster you can swap in the correct 6.2L Diesel sender/switch for the coolant temperature in the driver's side front head (there is a sender there from the 6.5 setup but the PCM won't miss it). For oil pressure, I'd just install a 6.2L or BBC sender on the engine. I'd forget about the OPS stuff and just wire the fuel pump to run when the ignition key is on, or as suggested tap oil pressure elsewhere to run the gauge. The Alternator should work fine, as will your volt gauge.

PATC transmissions makes an adapter for the 4L80E to run a mechanical speedometer, rather pricey, but it's available. The trans should shift fine w/o the rear speed sensor. That sensor is only used for the ABS and speedometer via a VSSB. The PCM can be reprogrammed to eliminate errors associated with missing VSSB. I've been modifying proms for needs like this recently.

I'm about to do a similar conversion myself.

Converting my 86 C10 6.2 pickup to electronic injection. Installing the DS4 injection pump on the 6.2L engine, and a 4L60E transmission in place of the 700R4.

The Electronics aren't that hard. I did all the wiring on an engine test stand to figure out what's needed and what's not. I did the 1994-1995 OBDI setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWAZhEM-CKg

You can see from the video the APP Petal and how that works, just all drive-by-wire, not like a TPS at all.

[More Power]

If the budget doesn't include money for a mechanical fuel injection pump, the electronic stuff can be made to work, as has been mentioned earlier.

However, in terms of simplicity and long-term reliability, going mechanical makes more sense - if there's a budget for it. A few hundred bucks should be enough to get you a good pump.

Jim

PS - we always have luv for newbs. Patience helps...

[mangled03gmc]

Ok guys little update. Engine is a 92 and is infact a mechanical.. So this should make life a bunch easier. No relocating of anything, shouldn't have to run any other fuel pump other then the mechanical pump correct, or still need some sort of priming pump? Also I take it I am going to need to get some sort of stand alone controller for the trans? If it is a 4l80E and is not vacuum controlled like the current 400T.. Any one in particular that is better then the other? I will also have to check to see if it is just a 4L80, not the E.. Thanks again folks.

[john8662]

It's a 4L80E, you'll need the electronics from the truck (TCM and wiring) to run the transmission, but that's much simpler than electronic DS4 conversion.

J

[mangled03gmc]

It's a 4L80E, you'll need the electronics from the truck (TCM and wiring) to run the transmission, but that's much simpler than electronic DS4 conversion.

J


Ok so with that being said, I have or should say will have every thing that came out of the donor truck, harness, pcm modules. So your saying I shouldn't need a stand alone module ? Thanks

[More Power]

Ok guys little update. Engine is a 92 and is infact a mechanical.. So this should make life a bunch easier. No relocating of anything, shouldn't have to run any other fuel pump other then the mechanical pump correct, or still need some sort of priming pump? Also I take it I am going to need to get some sort of stand alone controller for the trans? If it is a 4l80E and is not vacuum controlled like the current 400T.. Any one in particular that is better then the other? I will also have to check to see if it is just a 4L80, not the E.. Thanks again folks.

The 4L80 is a 4L80-E. Some just use shorthand when typing it out in a message.

You'll need an electric fuel lift pump to push fuel to the fuel injection pump. These are usually located in-line about mid way between the fuel tank and the engine compartment, and they produce about 4-7 psi when measured at the fuel filter.

www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com (http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com) offers control modules and installation kits (harnesses, etc.). With this, I'd get the GM engine speed sensor, that is part of the oil pump drive assembly, and the genuine GM TPS (Throttle Position Sensor), which bolts onto the side of the fuel injection pump. Each of these sensors provide required signals used by the transmission control module.

Jim

[mangled03gmc]

The 4L80 is a 4L80-E. Some just use shorthand when typing it out in a message.

You'll need an electric fuel lift pump to push fuel to the fuel injection pump. These are usually located in-line about mid way between the fuel tank and the engine compartment, and they produce about 4-7 psi when measured at the fuel filter.

www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com (http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com) offers control modules and installation kits (harnesses, etc.). With this, I'd get the GM engine speed sensor, that is part of the oil pump drive assembly, and the genuine GM TPS (Throttle Position Sensor), which bolts onto the side of the fuel injection pump. Each of these sensors provide required signals used by the transmission control module.

Jim


Yes it would seem that way after some reading, I am very familiar with the 4l80e trans, but heard through the grape vine that there was a 80 trans that was not electronic, in the early 90's. Guess that was wrong, because i never heard of a non electric 80..