Do I Really Need DRW?

[Aepozzi]

Greetings,

I have a 36' Newmar fifth wheel trailer. It is a 3 axle trailer, and weighs 13,200 pounds empty. Gross is 18,000 lbs. I figure I am at 16,500 pounds.

Curently I tow with a Duramax DRW. My question is do I really need a dually? I tow 1 to 2 times per year, at a distance of 300 miles each way.

Last year I went on the interstate and went 860 miles. I'm not sure of the hitch weight. I think it's around 2,200 lbs. There is no generator in the front of the fifth wheel.

I would appreciate any comments>

Respectfuly Submitted,
Andy

[DmaxMaverick]

Yes, you really need a DRW. Your current truck (3500?) is underrated for that RV as it is. Towing a 3 axle RV with a SRW is asking for CHP attention, not to mention the safety factors. Sure, a lot of people do it. Some even do it after they get caught. I know of a few who've been scaled, and the result wasn't pretty. Big fines and canceled vacations. Once CHP has you underrated, you don't get to leave. A properly rated tow vehicle is the only way to get your RV back.

If you're only traveling a couple times a year, consider renting the equipment, compared to the RV loan payment, tags (CA tags, at that), insurance, maintenance, and depreciation. It isn't the way to go for everyone, even me, but the figures add up for some.

[justlkn]

Actually he is within is limits if he is towing with a newer Duramax. Gross trailer weight for a 2wd is 22,800 lbs and subtract 300 for a 4wd with a 3.73 in the rear. I have a 2012 3500HD dually and after driving a SRW I would never tow anything again that heavy without DRW. Is it a bear to park...yes...is that a smallprice to pay for safety...absolutely! If you have the truck why not just keep it?

[Vin82k3500]

I personally have a single wheel truck but I never tow more than a combined weight of 8000 pounds behind my single wheel truck on a bumper pull if I was to go heavier I would go with a dually 10 k on a trailer espeacially if its a 5th wheel or gooseneck is alot of wieght on a single set of 10 ply tires I would certainly want the extra set of tires they do make a difference if you have a blow out with just one of the rear tires with a load you feel it

[Mark Rinker]

I pull 14000-16000# off the bumper (pintle, classV hitch with custom reinforcements) and my SRW K3500 does just fine. Who needs the choppy ride, and wearing out more tires, unless you have a gooseneck or 5'r application?

Had a Maryland DOT level II inspection today, passed with flying colors with 26K# gross combined truck, trailer, boat. Same story nationwide, Canada, 60k miles this season, 60K miles last season, 60K miles the season before that...over 250K SRW K3500 miles with average 15K# loads.


Plus the K3500 SRWs hold their value and guys look for them out there.


my .02

[Robyn]

After having several duallies and yanking various heavy trailers around, I would never ever haul the weight spoken of without a dually, period.

Lose a rear tire and your toast.

Now A QUICKY short haul that can be kept at a slow speed, no problem.

My experience running class 8 heavy haul stuff just confirms the entire process.

Fact, even the best equipped dually is going to be right near the edge of the envelope pulling a triple axle RV with the numbers we are talking about.

I have hauled some huge horse trailers with a 3500 dually and always realized that we were seconds from disaster with these setups.

The only really safe bet is a medium duty "toy hauler" like the GMC or the baby Freight Liners

Back in the mid 90's I looked into a custom tandem axle BABY LINER with full air brakes and a 13 speed trans.

This would have placed us well into the safe zone while hauling the large horse trailers.

Bottom line, yess you can get away with a lot of stuff if you are careful, but, just one slip up or tiny error and you are gonna wear it home, or scatter it all over.

I have seen wrecks involving large RV'S being hauled by SRW pickups and Duallies, it's Fugly when it all goes sour.

The fact is, none of these 3500 trucks have enough extra to cope with a situation that gets out on the edge.

When the weight of the trailer gets too close to or exceeds the weight of the tow rig, all bets are off.

The dually gives better control laterally and is way more stable too.

These large RV'S being towed by a pickup are a time bomb, not if, just when.

This is 2 million miles of class 8 experience running an 8 axle truck and trailer at #105,500 taliking.

I retired with zero crashes, zero tickets, nothing. Lucky, you betcha.

So, what does this all mean ?? you decide how far your willing to push the envelope and risk the lives of others.

As Maverick said, let CHP get ahold of you, and life may not be pleasant, costly too. :eek:


Missy

[DmaxMaverick]

Also consider the GVWR of the RV. A CDL is required for any 5th wheel trailer over 15K. Your 18K gross requires a CDL, regardless of what your actual loaded weight is.

[a5150nut]

On my way down to Salinas today happened upon an early 70's Chevy short bed 4X4 with what looked to be about 28 foot TT. From the looks of all the belongings stacked along the shoulder he might have been tail heavy.

Coldn't realy tell if he had swaped ends and made it all the way arround hitting the tail of the trailer into the bank, or maybe had been rear ended. Back of trailer was wide open, truck and trailer way off on the shoulder with the front of the truck headed up the slope.

Must have been a fun ride. Couldn't drive and get pics too.

Simply too much trailer for the truck.

[Robyn]

The CDL requirement varies with the state too.
In Oregon, as long as its an RV there is no requirement.

A person can buy one of these tour bus conversions with full air brakes, hang a huge trailer on behind with a car in it and off to the Rodeo it goes.

I dont think its right that someone with zero seat time in a huge rig can head out, but thats how it is. If they can buy it, they can drive it away.

As long as the tow rig is under 26000 GVW no CDL needed.

So, here the truck would need to be licensed for the weight of the T&T which would need to be under 26000# and good to go.

My 40 foot bus conversion did not require a CDL for me to operate.
Butttttttttttttt, when that same bus was hauling passengers the driver had to have a CDL.

Strange rules out there.

Missy

[DmaxMaverick]

He's in CA. No CDL is required for up to 26K gross, but is for ball/pintle hitch trailers over 10K, 5th wheels over 15K, doubles, or air brakes (any vehicle with air brakes). For non-commercial use of CDL required vehicles, a non-commercial CDL can be had, with endorsements according to the equipment you have. Also, 40' is the max single-vehicle length, including RV's, before a CDL is required, regardless of any other variable.

[Diesel 4 blood]

When we are hauling hay I put the 25' goose neck on my 01 dodge its a 20k trailer we put 10 tun on it and the truck weighs about 9000lb with full slip tank and the 93"x9' flatbed going down the road wish I had a DRW it would be a lot safer but I can't afford another truck right now I wouldn't get rid of that truck it will really surprise you on how stable a DRW is going down the road compared to a SRW had a lot of close calls in wind and sharp corners

[Aepozzi]

In CA anything over 15k requires a non-commercial class A license. If you go into CA DMV and ask for the non-commercial booklet they will proide you with one.

Most CA CHP do not know about this. Only the CHP officers that work in the weigh stations and inspect the big trucks.

After reading the posts I guess I'll just stay with the dually. It's a real pain, but at least it's stable, and safer than srw.

I appreciate all of the comments.

Now if I could just get the Duramax to shift properly I would be a happy camper.

Andy

[DmaxMaverick]

In CA anything over 15k requires a non-commercial class A license. If you go into CA DMV and ask for the non-commercial booklet they will proide you with one.

Most CA CHP do not know about this. Only the CHP officers that work in the weigh stations and inspect the big trucks.

After reading the posts I guess I'll just stay with the dually. It's a real pain, but at least it's stable, and safer than srw.

I appreciate all of the comments.

Now if I could just get the Duramax to shift properly I would be a happy camper.

Andy

Every CHP officer should know. Every CHP officer I worked with (dozens over many years) was at least familiar with basic commercial regulations, such as what we are discussing here. I wasn't CHP, and I knew/know. Most traffic safety issues that don't present an immediate concern are often enforced as a matter of convenience. If the patrolling commercial safety officer(s) aren't available at the time, non-commercial traffic safety officers are likely to pass, as they don't have the equipment on hand, and their time is often better spent on their primary enforcement scope. If you are within a few miles of a scale, it's very different, as they will direct you there. Most traffic safety encounters are 10 minutes or less (moving or equipment violations), while commercial stops can be an hour, or more. The officers don't have to be CHP, either. Catch a local PD or Deputy Sheriff on a slow day with little else to do at the time, and you can find yourself in the same situation. Been there. Done that.

[Mark Rinker]

It all comes down to pin weight. >1200# transferred to the truck and/or >24000# gcvw, you'll need a dualie.

My trailer has three 7k# axles with 235/75r16 load range E tires, the trailer does most of the work, because the boat engines are at best ahead of the rearmost axle center (inboards) and worst, two feet behind (I/Os)...

Duallies add a margin of safety, in any case. My combination is purpose matched to yield >11mpg average, loaded and unloaded miles.

[gimpyhauler]

I'm in CA (for the next couple of weeks) I have my 2500HD crew cab long bed and pull my 30+8 gooseneck twin 5,500# axle trailer. I have never had it anywhere near it's weight limit yet and I have a hard time remembering it's behind me while on the road. I will be hauling it north with my toyota, polaris ranger and a few small pieces of light equipment on it. That will be the heaviest to date.

Will be in Oregon soon and I guess I won't have to worry about it there.

Next time, I buy a single rear axle commercial tractor or dump for my heavy weight needs.

[Vin82k3500]

I personally have a single wheel truck but I never tow more than a combined weight of 8000 pounds behind my single wheel truck on a bumper pull if I was to go heavier I would go with a dually 10 k on a trailer espeacially if its a 5th wheel or gooseneck is alot of wieght on a single set of 10 ply tires I would certainly want the extra set of tires they do make a difference if you have a blow out with just one of the rear tires with a load you feel it

14500 GCW 6500 loaded truck/8000 loaded trailer

[Mark Rinker]

14500 GCW 6500 loaded truck/8000 loaded trailer

SRW should be completely sufficient, unless the load is for some reason very very heavy at the pin and cannot be made otherwise.