View Full Version : hello again guys!! Ive got maybe good news
when last we spoke my heads were declared dead, the clackity noise wasn't found and my turbo was shot. I've been on the hunt to find a way to fix it ever since.
this is what I found
1992 k3500 drw (mines a 93 single rear crew)
both are 4x4
guy says a small engine fire burnt up the harness motor has 215k on the dial mine has like 280k
he's parting it out for a grand take the whole thing, is this a straight up swap or am still sucking a pipe dream through the sewer?
I'm driving to santa rosa tomorrow to look at it any advice?
Any absolute deal breakers?
I'm looking at swapping the motor, trans (mine reportedly doesn't go into OD), rear springs (mine have been altered I'm sitting real nose up like a pre runner thing and don't like it)
all the parts and little parts that would go into it is a grand a decent price?
Had a member offer me his old motor for 2700, long block old castings were around 2500 and the new hotness (advanced castings with no cracking issues) started at like 3500. I'm really hoping this is my cheap short term answer to getting on the road.
what say yall?
DmaxMaverick
07-09-2012, 19:49
Engine compartment fires are usually an engine killer. If there's ANY melted or distorted aluminum, the heat was too great, and a NO DEAL. If it's only burned wires and melted plastic, some blistered paint (not burnt off, even the hood), with no discoloration of the metal surfaces, it's probably OK inside. It's a tough call without actually seeing it, but best judgment may serve you. His springs are as old as yours, and may be no better.
metal distortion and burnt off paint ill get pix tomorrow
, paint off the inside or the outside of the hood, i've seen the craigs list pix of the outside and its evidence free of fire
DmaxMaverick
07-09-2012, 20:25
If it's had a fire, the insulation and hood underside paint may be burnt off, which isn't an indicator of excessive heat (except for the hood, which is common in the smallest fires). If the paint on the outside of the hood (top) isn't blistered or burned, it's probably not too bad. Pic's would be good.
greatwhite
07-10-2012, 06:52
A small fire isn't what would worry me. Intake and wiring would all be sapped anyways. The long block can take a fair bit of heat before theres any real issues.
What I would be worried about is buying the engine with the intention of replacing mine and not being able to see it running.
It could be good, it could have massive blowby. It could have bad compression or poor oil pressure. You just won't know until you get it installed in your truck and by that time you've got a couple hundred invested in gaskets, fluids, etc.
Keep in mind, you're also getting rid of a dead truck for this guy. He'd otherwise have to pay to get rid of it or give it away.
Now, a thou for a running 6.5 long lock isn't a big gamble. Especially if you can use other parts off the truck to replace bad ones on yours.
But you're taking a larger chance here since you can hear it run.
Friend or not, I'd be looking for a pretty low price on that rig. I'd probably offer a fair bit less than 1,000. Probably not much more than the valve in scrap, which is around 300 a ton iirc.
So around 600-900 bucks.
That way, if you have to haul it away because it's junk, you not loose too much at the end of it all....
What started the fire in the first place?
I agree with you that buying it would be a gamble. Before buying, I would pop off the oil pan and inspect the bottom end for cracks. That issue alone has steered me away from many purchases.
greatwhite
07-10-2012, 08:00
What started the fire in the first place?
I agree with you that buying it would be a gamble. Before buying, I would pop off the oil pan and inspect the bottom end for cracks. That issue alone has steered me away from many purchases.
Good point....
was told that leaking diesel caused the fire, are the main web cracks easy to see if present? is the pan easy to drop i'm leaving now ill use my phone to check back here as we drive up
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/3120604018.html
This is the ad I'm chasing down
DmaxMaverick
07-10-2012, 08:55
A small fire isn't what would worry me. Intake and wiring would all be sapped anyways. The long block can take a fair bit of heat before theres any real issues.
What I would be worried about is buying the engine with the intention of replacing mine and not being able to see it running.
It could be good, it could have massive blowby. It could have bad compression or poor oil pressure. You just won't know until you get it installed in your truck and by that time you've got a couple hundred invested in gaskets, fluids, etc.
Keep in mind, you're also getting rid of a dead truck for this guy. He'd otherwise have to pay to get rid of it or give it away.
Now, a thou for a running 6.5 long lock isn't a big gamble. Especially if you can use other parts off the truck to replace bad ones on yours.
But you're taking a larger chance here since you can hear it run.
Friend or not, I'd be looking for a pretty low price on that rig. I'd probably offer a fair bit less than 1,000. Probably not much more than the valve in scrap, which is around 300 a ton iirc.
So around 600-900 bucks.
That way, if you have to haul it away because it's junk, you not loose too much at the end of it all....
The size of the fire is not what's important. The amount of heat isn't important. The duration of heat is important, and is usually indicated by the condition of the surfaces around the area of the fire. A burned hood is a given, as it's above the fire. If the fire continued to burn long enough to burn off the insulation (which is fire-resistant) and blister the paint on top of the hood, that's excessive sustained heat, and will have likely caused engine damage. Sure, the long block can withstand a lot of heat, but sustained excessive heat will kill the gaskets and other internals (such as bearings, which are soft metals with low melting points, and even the rocker buttons), and cause metal warpage. Plastic will burn or melt very quickly, and paint will blister shortly after. Paint that's burned off (charred) takes a lot more heat, over a longer period. It's a progression of conditions that may indicate the depth of damage, not just one indicator. Melted aluminum is a dead giveaway, as it melts at over 1200°F and takes time. Copper melts at over 1900°F, and is another indicator, but wires are much less massive than thick aluminum engine parts, and will burn more quickly. Still, either takes time, and time is what causes the damage, not necessarily the temperature of a fire. There are too many details yet unknown to form a conclusion.
No deal burnt to **** I am very very sad
DmaxMaverick
07-10-2012, 11:58
More than just the electrical? The Craig's List ad makes it sound very minor. Please share what you found, and any pics you may have taken. Just curious.
Pics sent to dmax, I'm so very disappointed sad gaaaaaaaaaaaa
Fire was compartment wide, melting down both batts and head lights from the back side. Hoses were all toast and the silicone turbo hose was flaking apart. Fire wall insulation was burnt off and so were all sensors and connectors. Oil was not even liquid any more, just sludge on the stick. I can go on but I'm depressed and feeling stupid for letting my jimmy go. If I ever make this truck work I'm hoping it will all be worth it.
DmaxMaverick
07-10-2012, 12:24
Yeah. Crispy! Just a little more than the harness. No less than a lie, as advertised. Thanks for the pics. I'll post them here if you like.
Good luck with your search. Let us know if we can help in any way. Your truck's "worth" is what you make of it.
Yeah go ahead and post them. I'm more discouraged than anything this was first chance I had of really making progress
DmaxMaverick
07-10-2012, 14:56
And the rest.....
It's amazing what some people will call "minor". It doesn't appear there was any attempt to clean it up. It took me a while to recognize the first pic was a battery.
greatwhite
07-10-2012, 16:08
Lots of burn, but it's possible the long block is salvageable from the looks of those pics.
However, I would not touch it and I would not advise anyone else do so.
Maybe if you were looking for a core to tear down and rebuild. But only the long block.
But then you are taking a risk on a cracked block, cracked heads, etc once it was torn down and then you'd be stuck with getting rid of those parts too.
Of course, it goes without saying that everything else besides the block and heads are "toast" in the engine bay.
Still, if there's other parts you can make use of (IE: trans, springs, etc) offer to haul it off his lot for him for free. I wouldn't pay anything for it though. You're hauling a toasted truck away for him and you'll have to deal with storing it, stripping it and finally disposing of the dead husk.
That's payment enough in my mind.....I suppose if I was pushed and I really wanted the trans, maybe a hundy......
Thanks for sharing.
Sorry to her that things were not what they were represented to be.
I have seen far too many items for sale that were described with terms like, Minor, a few little dings. some paint scratches, little fire, and on it goes.
The one that always runs my red flag to full staff is the biggy, "She's Cherry"
That much fire IMHO would make this a "Leave A Right" (Leave it right there)
Possibly, if the price was next to nothing, it might be salvageable as a builder, but you can't know enough until its all out, cleaned off and apart
Good luck in your quest for a good one.
Missy
oh we left it right there, made an offer of 40 bucks for the turbo :D
still a 7 hour round trip for nothing :(
West Coast Diesel in Livermore called me back says he has a 6.5 pulled with a bad head gasket. The customer is swaping in a cummins wants 250 for the 6.5. I'm gonna call him back and ask the paticulars. Don't know much about it yet. I'd like to say I'm just going to grab one of those 7k drop in motors but unless the lotto hits its not likely ever going to happen
thanks for the good thoughts all
DmaxMaverick
07-11-2012, 15:06
I wouldn't buy a used 6.5 without a thorough inspection, including inside the pan. Check the area for salvage value of a long block, and offer no more than that if they don't allow an inspection, or insist on a buy-back if it isn't usable. If it has blown head gasket(s), plan on new heads, and just a bonus if you don't need them. Actually, whether it needs heads or not, it's much better to do head gaskets, and it will never be easier than while it's out and on the stand. Also a good time for water pump, timing set and balancer. Even if it is really tight on the budget, these things go a long way for peace of mind. Check the mains for cracks if at all possible, regardless of seller claims. The easiest way to do it remotely only requires some brake cleaner and a heat gun (or propane torch, but be careful to not ignite the oil). Have the shop put the engine on a stand, invert it, and pull the pan. Spray the main webs with the brake cleaner, just enough to expose bare iron. Wait a few minutes, and hit the webs (one at a time) with the heat, about enough to make it too hot too touch for more than a few seconds. If there are any cracks, they will show as hairlines. It's best with the crank out, but that's a lot to ask just for an inspection. If the block is crack free, it's worth every bit of $250.
greatwhite
07-11-2012, 16:32
... If the block is crack free, it's worth every bit of $250.
Fo shizzle.
(lol, can't believe I just used that!)
250 for a serviceable block is definitely worth 250. If the rotating assembly is good it's a steal. If the rotating assemble and pistons/rings/bores are good it's a federal crime steal.
If the short block assembly and the heads are good, 250 is going to make you very disliked by a lot of dead 6.5 owners.
Seriously though, if it checks out as duramaverick have stated (inspection, cracks, etc) it's a pretty good deal.
But it's all gotta check out good.
If it's sitting on a shop floor and they only want 250, it's probably going in the trash eventually anyways. They probably won't care if you open it up, especially if it means a sale and you're going to haul it away for them.
250 won't even cover the guys cost of the trans adapter on that Cummins swap.....he probably doesn't care either way....
Talked with the LEFT coast diesel shop man. Left coast not west coast, whatever. States the motor is from a 94 +1, that it has "blown head gaskets"?! -100. I asked him how that was dx'ed. "Failed a block test and was running like crap". Asked if anybody pulled the heads to confirm he said no because the other guy was hot to trot on the cummins swap. Asked him how much for the swap, 25k$!!!! No ****, they got this guy on the hook for 25 large. Said the guy really wanted it done soooooooooooooooooo they did it. Essentially they pulled it and put it on the floor next to the pile of stuff they took out for the swap and left it. Asked a little bit about the block test he confirmed what I was thinking it was the chemical that reacts with products of combustion in the coolant deal. That tells me that they really don't know if its just head gaskets, cracked heads, cracked block or all three. Yall can tell me if i'm right with that assumption. I'm going to try and drive up my next days off which are monday or tuesday to look at it. I'll ask them to put it up on a stand for me to inspect for like 40$.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/3130594474.html
is the ad with two pix
anything look out of sorts?
anything else besides the main webs to look at while i got it up?
DmaxMaverick
07-11-2012, 20:58
If it's still available for $250, I'd take it. It probably isn't worth inspecting for $40. If it's bad, wasted $40. If it's good, you didn't spend that. The turbo is worth $250, alone. If you take it and you can't use it, a little time should yield some profit on the stuff bolted on. At least the balance will be worth it at a recycler. You won't be out any more than time and a little travel. It isn't far from you. Difficult to say, and it's your money. I do it. If heads are cracked, you are still ahead of the game, and a long way from $7K.
is that the vaunted turbo master i see to the left of the turbo?
DmaxMaverick
07-11-2012, 21:14
is that the vaunted turbo master i see to the left of the turbo?
Looks like an earlier version. The pic isn't that great. That's worth $100 (sort of).
after i get a running 6.5 in my truck we'll talk about the myths and legands of "performance upgrades" I'm reading a metric crap ton about how not to grenade these things once they are going, my hope is that what ever i end up with will take me 100k miles. I believe it to be a modest goal:rolleyes:
DmaxMaverick
07-11-2012, 21:29
100K is a very modest goal. Your results depend on your objectives, and the course you take. There aren't really any specific "right" ways, but there are a few "wrong" ways. A lot of options, many not so clear. Pass any questions, concerns or ideas across the bar (here), and we'll try to get you steered right. Rule #1: It IS NOT a Cummins, Duramax or PoS. Don't try to make it one, and it'll live.
taken to heart long ago, im of the don't care how long it take to get somewhere as long as there is progress being made crowd. Hell going slower on the hills lets you appreciate more of the scenery!
DmaxMaverick
07-11-2012, 21:36
Oh, heck. That's a piece o' cake. Get a N/A 6.2, take in a loooooot of scenery, and do it at 20+ MPG.
greatwhite
07-12-2012, 01:31
is that the vaunted turbo master i see to the left of the turbo?
Yup.
Resale maybe about 50-75 bucks used.
Only 110 new (plus ship) from the original vendor.
the block sold out the door after I spoke with the gent, spent three days trying to get ahold of him to arrange for pick up but he kept ducking my calls. Called from the rig with a work phone he picked right up. Sigh the saga continues..................:( Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooo
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