Can I tow

[Newbiediesel]

Hello,
New to the diesel and towing scene. I just bought a 2012 chevy 2500HD short bed 4x4 diesel truck. I was told it should be able to tow up to 17K lbs. So I went ahead and ordered a 40 toy hauler that dry weight is 15K. But then I find out that the tow capacity for this truck is 15500. Does any one tow anything this size help me out before I go trade this thing in and get my butt handed to me on the trade in. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[DmaxMaverick]

Welcome aboard!

Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do with your current combination. You'll have to either get a bigger truck, or smaller RV.

On that note, you'll need a 3500HD (not just a 3500DRW) to legally tow that toy hauler. It will be over pin weight and GVWR for even a 3500 DRW. In many states, you'll also need a CDL to drag it around. Most certainly in CA. An easy indicator is, if it has 3 axles, it's overweight for all but medium duty trucks, and drivers with a CDL. The "unladen" weight of that RV is overweight for a non-CDL driver. In almost every case, any RV you get is going to be a lot heavier than it is tagged. Often by a thousand or more. A lot of folks get away with it, but it only takes one LE contact to ruin a vacation and cost several thousand bucks, or worse.

[jhornsby3]

Any dealer that sells you a 40' trailer to put on a 2500 should be slapped and have his butt handed to him on a burgerking tray. That is just plain stupid of them. I just went and was "looking" at the new fifth wheels and the salesman looked at the pick up before he would show us anything. It was policy to check so there wouldn't be any weight issues. He said he would need a weight slip from the TA across the street before we could do any "paperwork".

I guess it has something to do with the 2500 that had a 35' trailer on it and was over weight with an uneducated or new to trailering buyer over in Montana. They took a beating for it.

[greatwhite]

It's all pretty much been said here already.

Legally, you're overweight. No way to up the rating on your current truck either. The rating is set by the OEM and no matter what you do to the truck (upgraded brakes, suspension, etc) that rating doesn't change in Johnny law's eyes.

Now, will your truck physically pull it?

Yup.

But you won't enjoy it, there'll be some anxious moments stopping or accelerating and it sure won't be legal if you get stopped.

Just for example; if you get stopped over weight in British Columbia (the worst province in canada for towing laws) your rig sits by the side of the road until you make it legal. Recreational or commercial, doesnt matter. I've known some guys who had to leave thier trailer and come back with a friends bigger truck. If you're passing through on vacation, that turns into a very expensive problem.

Sorry, not much positive news there for ya....prepare to open wallet.

One last question:

This isn't your very first trailer and truck is it?

That's pretty big for a first timer. I would advise lots straight highway trips and few weekends practicing turning and backing in empty parking lots for a while...

It's not as easy as some guys make it look...

[Newbiediesel]

Thanks for all the advice. Will look into a 3500 today.

[Robyn]

A DaHooooley HD is the only way to really haul anything of size.

Here in Oregon, the upper limit of combinations before you need a CDL is 26,000#
you can go 25000 and be OK, but over 26000 you must have a CDL, Except the large bus chassis motor homes that tow a car or whatever.

This is considered RV and does not require a CDL

I would not consider anything other than a Dually for trailer towing in the sizes you are speaking of.

Back several years ago, we purchased a 40 foot horsie hauler to go behind the GM dually.
at that time we had a 1994 GMC dually with a 6.5.
The truck was new and way under powered for the task at hand.

I traded the GMC off for a Dodge 2500 4x4 with the V10.
This truck did ok but I could not keep trannies behind the 10
The SRW sucked too.
I swapped that rig for a Ford F350 PS diesel SRW and it was better, but could not keep the stroke running for more than a week at a time without something failing.

Sold the ford and bought an 86 GMC 3+3 DaHooooley with the 454 4x4 and it did great.

Mileage sucked but it would always put the shoulder to the load and take care of business.

Sold the 86 and bought the 95 GMC diesel DaHoooley 4x4 we have now.

Really wished I had kept the 86 as it was a far better truck than any of the others.

If I could do it all over again, I would buy a medium duty toy hauler from freightliner.

Real trucks with real engines, real trannies that can handle a big job.

If you look around, you can likely find a used toy hauler medium duty truck for far less than a new pickup, and you will have a rig that can do the job with ease.

Good luck in your quest

Missy

[Jackanapes]

I am hoping my 2003 2500HD can handle something like this.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/rvd/3079614786.html

What do you think. It is going to be difficult to inductively guess the trailer weight on the used market where the seller may not even know.:confused:

[greatwhite]

The gvwr should be in the vehicle placard on the trailed some place.

I'll guess that rig weights somewhere around the 9-10,000 lbs. Maybe 11-12,000 when fully loaded up.

4 season units tend to the heavy side (more insulation, double glaze windows, etc).

Edit: here's a link with weights for that 1995 - http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/1995/King-of-The-Road/Travel-Trailers-5th-Wheels

Your for sale link says 30 feet and its a "knight" series. The knight series is lost as eihter 29 or 31 feet, which is anywhere from 9300-9900. I'm assuming thats manufactures dry weight listing. You can add an easy 500-1000 lbs on that for a finished trailer. Then add in your stuff. Topping 11,000 with that model isnt unrealistic....

[Jackanapes]

Topping 11,000 with that model isnt unrealistic....


Thanks again.

Given a fully loaded trailer that I will certainly take to the scale what dry weight should I shoot for? In other words what is a good rule of thumb that will give me the proper margin for my puller? I am a safety minded person so I want to do the right thing. Around here in Tejas things are flat and one can be lulled into an idea that weight capacity can be pushed to the limits as long as the vehicle 'feels okay' but I want to be conscientious that the road is not mine alone.

[greatwhite]

Thanks again.

Given a fully loaded trailer that I will certainly take to the scale what dry weight should I shoot for? In other words what is a good rule of thumb that will give me the proper margin for my puller? I am a safety minded person so I want to do the right thing. Around here in Tejas things are flat and one can be lulled into an idea that weight capacity can be pushed to the limits as long as the vehicle 'feels okay' but I want to be conscientious that the road is not mine alone.

Well, this is where it gets a bit more convoluted....

You should weigh the trailer and tow rig together, in loaded condition, to make sure you're not exceeding cgvwr.

You need to weigh the trailer to make sure you're not exceeding it's gvwr.

You need to know the pin weight on the trailer to make sure you're not exceeding the max payload and/or the rear axle weight rating.

Some of these numbers can be "manouvered" by shifting weight in the trailer, some cannot (ie:cgvwr).

Dry weight is pretty close to useless in my experience. The OEM usually weighs thier trailers without things like propane tanks, batteries and dry water tanks (ie: fresh, grey and black).

Some of the more recently built trailers are often weighed without things like ovens, slides or any other number of components. That's how they get those big "half ton towable" stickers on thier fifth wheels (well, unless you're talking about a Ford Ecobeast that is!)

As to what dry weight to "shoot for", I can't give you a rule of thumb that will stand up to scrutiny there. It all depends on the ratings for cgvwr, rawr, payload, etc of your tow vehicle and this changes depending on how that vehicle is equipped from the OEM. Throw in the complication of he rv manufactures "dicking" with what "dry weight" actually is and you end up with needing to actually weigh it (loaded) to know if you're legal.

Since you're planning to live in it (iirc), your weights are probably going to be a bit higher than most weekend or two week camping trips. We tend to accumulate alot of stuff over our lifetimes and that means weight. Just something to consider when moving your rig.

Sorry, that's probably not very helpful in your situation....If I were pressed, I'd say a trailer dry weight (and pin weight) that's around 75-80% of your tow vehicle's ratings would probably put you close to max when loaded with all your stuff. For example: your truck may be able to handle 11,500 lbs. 80% is roughly 9200 lbs, which leaves you 2300 lbs for manufacturers "trucks" and all your stuff. That seems fairly reasonable to me for a "full timer".

But don't quote me on that......

One trick I use is to tow with the tanks empty. My trailer has a 40 gallon fresh and 30 gallons grey and black. That's a lot of weight to drag around. I usually carry just enough frah for a couple "flushes" and fill up at my destination if I need on board water. I also make sure I dump the grey and black before pulling out. Once in a while I'll tow with 1/2 full black tanks and a cleaner in it to let the road motion scour it clean (i find calgon, ice cubes and clothes soap in the mix work great for this).

The other trick you can use your tanks for ( depending on where they are located in the trailer) is ro unload your pin weight. Ie: tanks at the back of trailer can be filled to shift weight rearward and off the tow vehicle rear axle. Albeit at the cost of a higher cgvwr.

Towing is all about balancing it all out for the best setup without exceeding your many "maxes".

One thing you have working to your advantage is that you intend to use a fifth wheel instead of a "tag behind". Fifth wheels tend to be a bit more forgiving with balance/weight and towing characteristics.

The last thing I'll leave you to consider is that you can legally tow to your vehicle and trailer's max numbers (and often over them, but not legally) but its usually a much more satisfying and comfortable tow if you are under them. If you only plan to move your trailer very infrequently (ie: living in it as a house), it might be a bit more acceptable to be at your max. Just remember; it's not so much about getting it rolling as it is about getting it stopped...

This has turned into a bit of a thread hijack, so I'll just sign off with a sincere; "Good luck"

;)