Yet another 6.5 build --- this one for towing

[sctrailrider]

Alright, some of you know about my build already, so I will bring others up to speed on what I have done so far and what my planes are for this motor.

First off, I bought a Military 6.5 N/A take out from Teds Trucks back 4 months ago. I planed to rebuild it 100% and have a strong motor for my "Horse hauler". I don't get in a hurry when building motors, I like to have lots of time and also things are done on a cash only basis with me...

When I tore it apart, it looked nearly new, I mean there wasn't even any black film on the inside parts, I think I got lucky....

This motor will have everything that turns, touches, slides against something, Ceramic coated in my shop by me. I did the porting of the heads and then coated the chambers & runners, this isn't my first time at doing this, but i will not advertise or try and sell anything in this thread either...

I will post pics of the things done to the motor so far, I am taking it to be balanced & machined Monday, then start the assembly. I will be using a DB2833 pump that will be set up by John at Unique Diesel, a Holset pro40 that will be turned into a hybrid by Ron Schoolcraft. I will not be finished with this build till the fall this year, it will be going into the truck in my sig and I have a NV4500 that will be going in at that time also.

Here are a few pics to start with..

The GEP heads have more metal in the runners and valve bowl than older heads do.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=99

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=98

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=95

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=106

Half done
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=107

half done.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=112

More to come...

[sctrailrider]

Alright, on of the first things I did was to prep and coat the valve assembly, rockers and shafts with a "dry film lube" to make everything very slick when assembled and also to prevent ware over the long term.

Before look at the parts....

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=115

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=118

Preped for coating.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=121

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=123

After coating....
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=180

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=181

More to come....

[sctrailrider]

Also coating more of the internal parts.....

Bearings were coated with a "dry film lube"

Before the coating was done...
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=103

After coating
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=100

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=102

Stock cam coated.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=125
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=124

[sctrailrider]

Now for the heads, the pics didn't come out too good, but you can get the idea. The combustion chamber and entire cup area is coated with a "Thermal Barrier" for turbo, high compression motors. The runners are coated with a "Thermal Barrier" designed for inside runners, turbine housings, exhaust manifolds etc , it is a very hard, slick product and will stand up to 2000* constant temps. It is a heat stop, it helps prevent heat soak into the heads. I coated the area under the valve cover with a "Thermal Dispersant-oil shedding" product to help move heat away from the head.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=174

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=172

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=170

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=173

:D

[sctrailrider]

I coated the entire precup area and had the cups machined a little.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=175

Kennedy 18:1 pistons will be used in the build...
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=176

When the balancing & machine work is done next week, I will coat the underside of the pistons with a "Thermal Dispersant/oil shedding" product to help cool them.:cool:

[sctrailrider]

A few more pics ......

Coated DSG gear drive.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=182

Coated piston pins.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=183

[sctrailrider]

Well the balancing is done now, we went with the full race specs for this and a RPM range of 3500 - 4000, hopefully the machining will be done tomorrow afternoon.

[sctrailrider]

Balancing & machining are done, here are the specs for the balancing.

RECIPROCATING WEIGHT

Piston - 929.3
pin - 307.7
locks - 4.4
Rings - 60.7
Rod small end - 333.7
TOTAL = 1635.8
Piston/throw x 2
Reciprocating weight = 3271.6
Balance factor x 50.0
RECIPROCATING WEIGHT = 1635.8


ROTATING WEIGHT

Insert - 56.2
Rod big end - 724.0
rods/Throw x 2
oil 5.0
ROTATING WEIGHT = 1565.4

TOTAL BOB WEIGHT = 3201.2

[More Power]

Looks like quite a project! Thanks for posting your progress. The large-port precups, 18:1 pistons and HX40 should work well for a heavy hauler.

What sort of max fuel rate will the DB2833 produce? Stanadyne provides rpm/fuel rate data for its pumps, and most authorized Stanadyne fuel shops have (or can get) the spec sheets.

I would also recommend running the vehicle on the chassis dyno to help determine best BTDC timing specs. What I suspect you'll find is that about 4 degrees BTDC will produce the best power without going too far advanced (harmful rattle). The injection pump already has a mechanical cam linked to the throttle arm and an internal governor system that modifies timing with load and engine speed, but the 4 degrees is a setting at 700-rpm with an at op temp engine you'll set by rotating the pump. Internal advance is something the pump builder can tweak some too.... But there's not a lot of information about it.

Jim

[sctrailrider]

Thanks Jim, I will dyno it next spring sometime after it's broke in, I don't have a way of knowing what the timing is other than by sound right now...

The pump is at Unique Diesel now, John will be doing the work on it, we have talked about the cc's for fuel, we haven't decided how far to go yet. I think the max for a stock spec 2833 is 114cc's , we might go past that don't know yet...

Gave the block a good hot bath when I got it home, sure is nice looking... decided to start the crank install, plasti-gauge showed .002 on all mains. got it all tightened up and with the coated bearings in it, it will spin without any force, really slick feeling.

My machinist checked the block and said it was dead on, nothing for him to do but bore it...

[sctrailrider]

Now that the balancing is done, I finished the pistons, I applied a Thermal Dispersant/Oil Shedding coating to the underside to help cool them.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=189

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=188


The rods are also getting this coating, they are in the oven now.

[sctrailrider]

Rods are done......

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=191

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=190

[phantom309]

Thats going to be one "slick" 6.5! :D

Nick

[sctrailrider]

Update -----

Got the crank, pistons, cam, lifters, gear set in now, going to be a little while before the pan goes on, I'm cutting it apart and extending it about 4 inches.

[More Power]

Curious about the "Thermal Dispersant/Oil Shedding coating" on the underside of the pistons. Does this coating help to provide a thermal barrier or to improve heat transfer to the oil spray? Piston oil spray cooling helps to remove heat buildup in the piston. Jim

[greatwhite]

Curious to see the oil pan.

I have also considered "kicking out" the sides and adding an accumulator to increase capacity.

I was thinking of a collector sump for the pickup, but that's probably just over kill on a relatively slow cornering 2500 truck...

[DmaxMaverick]

Curious about the "Thermal Dispersant/Oil Shedding coating" on the underside of the pistons. Does this coating help to provide a thermal barrier or to improve heat transfer to the oil spray? Piston oil spray cooling helps to remove heat buildup in the piston. Jim

I was thinking the same thing. The piston underside should be conductive, not insulative. Even with a crown barrier, heat is still building in the piston core. Where will the heat go, now? (excessive thermal expansion, or worse, methinks)

If it were me, and the engine I were building has piston spray, I'd stipple the piston underside to maximize surface area, and greater heat dissipation. I've never done this, but makes sense, to me. A coating that "sheds" oil is likely to be MUCH less conductive of heat. Adhesion would allow for a much greater transfer of heat.

[sctrailrider]

Curious about the "Thermal Dispersant/Oil Shedding coating" on the underside of the pistons. Does this coating help to provide a thermal barrier or to improve heat transfer to the oil spray? Piston oil spray cooling helps to remove heat buildup in the piston. Jim

Jim, it aids in the cooling effect of the oil by not letting the oil "cling " to the part, the oil will pick up the heat and by not staying on the part as long it will move the heat away from what ever part has the coating. Tech Line has lots of good info on there web page about all the coatings, I have also done my own testing before i started using there coatings several years ago, I can warm a piston up to around 200* and pour oil in the bottom (underside) and the oil will absorb the heat and will kinda bead up like water & wax on a car does. In stead of the oil staying on a part and getting hotter & hotter, by moving the oil faster, the heat is also moved faster.

There is some what of a thermal barrier also, but that isn't the main function of this type coating, The coating I used on the chambers is a barrier type for high compression,turbo, blown, etc motors, it reflects the heat like a mirror does light so to speak. The coating in the runners is a very hard, heat barrier that is only for the inside of runners,turbos,manifolds,headers and such, it is a heat stop, slowing and almost preventing the heat from soaking into the metal. This is used in chromed headers to prevent them from blueing and in the runners like I have done.

Does this make sense the way I said it????

[sctrailrider]

I was thinking the same thing. The piston underside should be conductive, not insulative. Even with a crown barrier, heat is still building in the piston core. Where will the heat go, now? (excessive thermal expansion, or worse, methinks)

If it were me, and the engine I were building has piston spray, I'd stipple the piston underside to maximize surface area, and greater heat dissipation. I've never done this, but makes sense, to me. A coating that "sheds" oil is likely to be MUCH less conductive of heat. Adhesion would allow for a much greater transfer of heat.

Yea, one would think that until you see that the oil will stay there and get hotter, until the oil touches the part and then moves away it doesn't move heat. I have seen the data collected by people a lot smarter than me, and there data says it does much better than bare aluminum does...

I was also skeptical until I saw all the facts about it and also some of the other coatings...

[DmaxMaverick]

Yea, one would think that until you see that the oil will stay there and get hotter, until the oil touches the part and then moves away it doesn't move heat. I have seen the data collected by people a lot smarter than me, and there data says it does much better than bare aluminum does...

I was also skeptical until I saw all the facts about it and also some of the other coatings...

Just saying it's counterintuitive, and doesn't follow the science. If the surface tension is such that it rejects oil, it will also restrict heat transfer to the oil. The oil spray is continuous (cycle to cycle), so the oil is continuously replaced. As this happens, the cooler oil displaces the hotter oil, and heat is carried away. I still believe adhesion is the best conductor. If it works, more power to ya!

[sctrailrider]

Curious to see the oil pan.

I have also considered "kicking out" the sides and adding an accumulator to increase capacity.

I was thinking of a collector sump for the pickup, but that's probably just over kill on a relatively slow cornering 2500 truck...

I'm going to do it for added capacity, I only tow HEAVY with this truck, the added oil & larger cooler should help keep the oil a little cooler, and I have modded the oil pump so I will have a little more than normal oil PSI.

[sctrailrider]

This is some of what T/L says about the Thermal Dispersant..... ( not a full quote, but remove it if it is not allowed), I am licensed by them so maybe it can stay, it says it better than I can...

Being able to move and control heat is of tremendous importance. Excessive temperature can lead to metal fatigue, boiling fluids, damaging metal expansion, reduce electrical efficiency and a host of other problems. Traditionally dealing with heat has been handled either by expanding the radiating surface, constructing parts from materials that are more heat conductive and using the color black. With advances in thermal management methods additional ways of enhancing heat transfer now exist. **** **** has developed a Thermal Management System ™ . Individual products such as TLTD can be utilized by themselves or in conjunction with other coatings to manage the flow of heat. TLTD is capable of transferring heat faster than the bare metal surface. While TLTD does make use of the color black, TLTD is more than a simple "black body" heat emitting coating. TLTD includes ingredients that also contribute to increased heat flow. Combining these properties with increased corrosion protection and the thin film application technique, maximizes thermal transfer capabilities. Effective on Brakes, Intake Manifolds, Cylinder Heads, Oil Pans, Radiators, Intercoolers and … more.

[sctrailrider]

Got the heads back together and installed using studs, still working on the oil pan, almost ready for some "Cat Yellow paint" , next week maybe.

[sctrailrider]

Here she is all painted up....next to finish is the oil pan, then when the pump & turbo are done, maybe it's install time.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=198

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=199

[sctrailrider]

A little update to the build, long block is done, just waiting on the pump,injectors, and turbo to arrive. Should start the swap in a few weeks, still will take me some time, lots to install when I start like new LP,dual oil coolers,manual glow plug mod, etc etc and I am going to fab a 4" turbo back exhaust & CAC....

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=205

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=204

[sctrailrider]

Small update....

Old motor is out, I'm going to paint the engine bay & frame while it's empty....and redo the wiring, new wire loom and a little rerouteing...

Still waiting on the turbo & pump, both are to be done today, maybe by next weekend the new motor will be in it's new home.....

[sctrailrider]

Well I made some progress this weekend, I got the new motor in and the tranny bolted up. Sure was a little work with only the wife helping, (well she was cheering me on). The exhaust is going to be a pain in the rear, the outlet is a LOT closer to the AC drier & firewall than I was hoping for... I already fabed a piece for the down pipe but it isn't going to fit so I will start another one...

More later.

[Liftgate]

How did you get the engine so clean, hot tank, glass bead? I wish mine was that clean. Nice job.

[sctrailrider]

How did you get the engine so clean, hot tank, glass bead? I wish mine was that clean. Nice job.

Well, the motor was cleaned a few times during the build up stage, first it was hot tanked & acid soaked before the blok cement was put in, then before the machining it was hot tanked again, then when I got it home I gave it a hot soapy bath for good measure, then put a little color on it.

All the outside covers are ceramic coated, not paint, only the block is painted. The coating doesn't fade or peel or look bad after years of service in the truck so maybe it will stay clean and look good for a long time, thats the plan anyway..

[Liftgate]

Here in california, the "hot tank" is not as effective as it once was because of the EPA restrictions. I think they just use "Simple Green" or something! Some of the crud on these engines needs a lot of tough chemicals to take off. I see walmart has gallon cans of carb. dip. I wonder what that is made of, 80% water? Maybe a high pressure washer would work okay. I like clean! Greg

[a5150nut]

Here in california, the "hot tank" is not as effective as it once was because of the EPA restrictions. I think they just use "Simple Green" or something! Some of the crud on these engines needs a lot of tough chemicals to take off. I see walmart has gallon cans of carb. dip. I wonder what that is made of, 80% water? Maybe a high pressure washer would work okay. I like clean! Greg

Years ago I tanked a 283 in my back yard. Set a barrel up on blocks, put block and all parts to be cleaned in it. Added a couple hand fulls of steam cleaner soap, water to cover and built a fire under the barrel. Boiled it for a couple hours and it came out real clean. Back then we had burn barrels in our yard in Riverside and the dump was an old cement quarry and they burnt everything that was in the pit.

How times have changed. . . . .:D

[sctrailrider]

SHE IS ALIVE AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is the first 10 minutes of life for my build, I had everything primed and put back together and here is the BIRTH OF ANOTHER 6.5 ........

http://youtu.be/yj2TFT7-pIY

[Liftgate]

That motor was sure snorting good! I wish my 6.5 n/a would crank that fast at startup. I could hear the turbo whistling. You do good work. :)

[sctrailrider]

I got the exhaust finished yesterday, all hand made, 3" turbo to just under the cab then 4" the rest of the way with V-bands in case I need to remove something later, the 4" V-band at the rear will let me remove the tail pipe or adjust it. The down pipe will get wrapped to help keep heat out from under the hood.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=221
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=222
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=223
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=224
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=225
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=226

[Robyn]

SOUNDS AWESOME

Good work :)

Robyn

[DaveBr]

I like the tandem oil coolers. Is your truck auto or standard?

[sctrailrider]

I like the tandem oil coolers. Is your truck auto or standard?

Stick, NV4500....

[DaveBr]

Thought so as the tranny cooler sits where your second oil cooler is. Nice job.