wastegated or non wastegated

[Vin82k3500]

so I did it I did replaced my broken 6.2 with a P400 6500 engine and am very impressed to say the least I am glad I did this over a conversion but I did have a problem with my turbo I took off my 6.2 it was a gm8 off a 98 model 6.5 td and never seemed to really boost well I took it apart and found out why the wastegate was broken off not able to find parts other than a reman to the tune of 1200 bucks I have found many other used and others online from garret and holeset simmilare sizes to my gm8 wastegated and to the banks non wastegated wich is better I would think wastegated would be better for me cause I low alot and it would seem that wastegated would give me more boost without winding the p!ss out of my engine but I really dont know alot about turbos as far as how they work this thing runs so well with out a turbo that I have no interest in spending 1200 on a reman this year or 1800 for a banks kit when all I need is a turbo or a part for my wastegate but for the price of the garret and holsets im finding online a lil more fresh air would be icing on the cake for my repowered classic ???

[john8662]

Man, I vote find yourself a used GM-8 and swap your center section (bearing assembly, center, with your compressor housing) into that.

Congrats on the P400, I haven't even seen on in person. Although I've had two cranks that might have been destined for them, lol.

J

[Vin82k3500]

well that being said john I will keep pawing through the used ones or maybey bite the bullet in a few months and just get the darn reman or haggle with my parts guys for a better price lol thanks I am very proud I can honestly say it feels strong I popped the clutch on hot top at idle and it spun the tires the time it saved was worth it to me I do want rebuild my old red block 6.2 if the block is good for a project but as far as this truck I was wanting so bad to get it back to full time running and get rid of 2 trucks that were more than I needed:D

[Vin82k3500]

P400 had me with that girdle on the bottom end:D

[racedaymechanic]

so I did it I did replaced my broken 6.2 with a P400 6500 engine and am very impressed to say the least I am glad I did this over a conversion but I did have a problem with my turbo I took off my 6.2 it was a gm8 off a 98 model 6.5 td and never seemed to really boost well I took it apart and found out why the wastegate was broken off not able to find parts other than a reman to the tune of 1200 bucks I have found many other used and others online from garret and holeset simmilare sizes to my gm8 wastegated and to the banks non wastegated wich is better I would think wastegated would be better for me cause I low alot and it would seem that wastegated would give me more boost without winding the p!ss out of my engine but I really dont know alot about turbos as far as how they work this thing runs so well with out a turbo that I have no interest in spending 1200 on a reman this year or 1800 for a banks kit when all I need is a turbo or a part for my wastegate but for the price of the garret and holsets im finding online a lil more fresh air would be icing on the cake for my repowered classic ???
Go with a HX35 or the HX40II it really wakes up the 6.5s

[Vin82k3500]

I do hear that they wake them up but i just dumped over 6 k into a longblock then annother 1500 into radiator waterpump new t stats flywheel damper clutch and all the good stuff you should buy when you swap an engine oh yeah and new delphi injectors pumps was reman last fall so I just swapped it still waiting on boos and pyro gauge pod and need to get some more nv4500 fluid I am only looking to boost it 7 to 9 psi so I dont think I will go with hx 35 or 40 i have one from my cummins so if I wanted I could use it but I was putting nearly 40 psi through that thing too much for a standard comp 6.5 for me this engine in my 82 is absolutely ignorant with no turbo compared to stock powerplant I think 7 to 9 psi would be icing on the cake and it should live a long while. I think I will keep looking for annother gm 8 or bite the bullet and get the reman since I replaced my evaporator case with one from a newer truck to acommodate the turbo and keep my ac.

[greatwhite]

If I were you (for the time being at least) I'd pick up a used GM8, a quality rebuild kit and then make one good unit out of two.

Some tips if you do rebuild: use a tbar to remove the nuts on the shaft. A wrench or ratchet can side load the shaft and bend it. It doesn't take much to put a minor "whoop" in it. Any out fo true is bad. Also, make sure you make index marks and reinstall the wheels in the same orientation they came off. A dab of paint instead of a punch mark is what you want. 130,000 odd rpm and out of balance goes REALLY bad REALLY fast....

GM8's can be had around 50-100 bucks if you look hard enough.

I just snagged a third one for 100 bucks off the 'Bay.

GM8's aren't that bad of a choice in a daily driver, but they have their limits.

I've got my GM8 stretched out to close the 300 crank HP, but I'm thinking it's pretty close to the end of it's potential. I've got a few more tricks to throw at it and an intercooler, but it's pretty much topped out on the map....

[Vin82k3500]

yeah I will keep trying to find the cheaper ones wish i could just buy a wastegate for the one I have 300 is well plenty for my daily driver not looking to do more than give her some more fresh air got plenty of power I do think would be nice to have some boost off the line but its not a race truck nor is it intended to be my innitial goal was to have somwere around the power of a stock first gen cummins or 6.9/7.3 idi once again stock were talking 160 to 190 hp and around 400 lb/ft well I havent been to the dyno but I think my P400 has around that with no turbo I am just guessing and I could be fooled by the manual transmission and the light truck "compared to later model diesel trucks that is" but I had a second gen 12 valve cummins and a 91 f350 with a 7.3 idi they were not modified and well I think this thing could give them a run for their money if i still had them if nothing else it has the driveabillity of the idi 7.3 wich mine was basically my 6.2 felt like a middle of the road small block my 7.3 felt like a big block and the p400 6.5 feels more like a big block to me anyway the only turboed was my cummins I recently drove a 97 with a 6.5 td stock it was having some fsd issues or something but man with that gm turbo that thing was some responsive car like to me I really dont care about the numbers to make my classic feel like that would put the icing on the cake as I said earlier and thanks for the tip on the t handle on the turbo I did not intend on tearing mine apart since I couldnt get a wastegate but I am not giving up this easy Im psyched with my new power in my truck :cool:

[greatwhite]

Well, here's mine with an optimizer 6500, a GM8 and some tuning:

http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r618/justonepict/photo.jpg

That peak number is at the crank, not the rear wheels so it's more like 260-270 RWHP.

There's a gent who recently dyno's 260 at the rear wheels with a larger turbocharger and a db2 turned up a bit.

Getting 190-200 hp shouldn't be too hard with your setup....at the crank that is.

Little bit of knowledgeable tweaking should get you around 200 at the wheels.

A standard transmission and that short light truck will make that pretty fun!

[racedaymechanic]

Put it on a real dyno then post up the sheet

[racedaymechanic]

I do hear that they wake them up but i just dumped over 6 k into a longblock then annother 1500 into radiator waterpump new t stats flywheel damper clutch and all the good stuff you should buy when you swap an engine oh yeah and new delphi injectors pumps was reman last fall so I just swapped it still waiting on boos and pyro gauge pod and need to get some more nv4500 fluid I am only looking to boost it 7 to 9 psi so I dont think I will go with hx 35 or 40 i have one from my cummins so if I wanted I could use it but I was putting nearly 40 psi through that thing too much for a standard comp 6.5 for me this engine in my 82 is absolutely ignorant with no turbo compared to stock powerplant I think 7 to 9 psi would be icing on the cake and it should live a long while. I think I will keep looking for annother gm 8 or bite the bullet and get the reman since I replaced my evaporator case with one from a newer truck to acommodate the turbo and keep my ac.
You are really going to be hurting your engine with only 7-9 Pounds of boost at WOT your EGTs will be thru the roof Your engine will be much happier in the 14-17 PSI range with a good turbo

[Vin82k3500]

OK well how am I hurting my engine running only 7 to 9 psi of boost with high egt when I am not boosting it at all egts are not getting over 600 I have the high compression engine not the 18 to 1 wich penninsular recomends for that kind of boost :confused:

[Vin82k3500]

Great whilt I like it :D

[Vin82k3500]

and what is WOT I nevcer exceed 1/4 throttle pop the clutch at idle and im smoldering my little 245s

[Vin82k3500]

ok sorry for all the comments I dont think this is a rant board nice figures great white and flywheel hp is what Im talking about that is what trucks are factory rated at last time I checked unless I have been told wrong several hundred times so when I talk power I am figuring at the flywheel nor raceday I dont understand how I will hurt my engine running low boost its a high compression IDI it runs awesome with NO TURBO I ordered the engine as a drop in replacement for an na 6.2 and transfered my ip from the 6.2 wich was originally from a 93 6.5 td duals with a set of thrush glasspacks intake muff removed and k and n air filter j code intake i see egts between 400 and 600 what is wrong with that as far as wide open throttle what is that I have never had it past 1/4 throttle understand I am not heavy footed and ran this thing for 6 years with a 4.3 gasser and towed my car trailers for over 300 k miles after a couple years of doing homework on the diesels and this being my favorite of 4 trucks I decided to swap in an n/a 6.2 and was pleased later added a turbo but with wastegate issues it was a waste of time but I never took it off after a rear main seal failure I decided to put some new iron in it thats what I did now im just looking for stock levels of boost I am easy on the skinny pedal so Im not sure I would ever wind the engine up enough to get anything out of it all I am aiming for is the most mielage I can get from it not the most power or speed I just haul my car trailer with it take it fishing and hunting in n/a form it has no problem roasting the puny lil 245s and it does not blow any black smoke and I have been suggested the gm 8 from several on here who I consider the gurus of 6.5s the one whom I quote said man get a gm8 owns a half dozen of them the guys from penninsular didnt tell me I would hurt it running it with no turbo so how could only small boost be a problem when no boost isnt the reason I threw the 7 to 9 numbers out is because I was considdering getting an ebay knock off for a couple hundred but with the advise of john and missy and great white pointing me to the gm8 i figure it is a much more reliable turbo meaning I wouldnt put it on get 2500 miles form home and have my 200 dollar knock off show me why it was 1000 less than a reman form napa the moderators have me quite dead set on my gm8 maybey I could even care less about the turbo I seem to have gotten the seat of the pants performance I wanted though it seems there are lots who say "your gonna ruin that with out a turbo" what ever stock boost is for a 6.5 is all I want stock

[DmaxMaverick]

7-9 PSI is just fine for your setup. You won't hurt anything with it. 95% (or more) of all 6.5's still living are proof of that.

[greatwhite]

Put it on a real dyno then post up the sheet

Bruce; I've already gone over that in another thread and won't get into it further here. The numbers are at least in the ballpark.


:)

Anyways, back on topic now......

[greatwhite]

7-9 PSI is just fine for your setup. You won't hurt anything with it. 95% (or more) of all 6.5's still living are proof of that.

Agree.

Keep an eye on your pyro and no damage will be done.

An optimizer (your p400 is an optimizer on steroids) is supposed to be good for around 20-25 psi sustained, so 14-15 psi is still in the comfort zone for longevity.

But there's no sense pushing a GMx turbo into that range if you're happy with the current power level and your egts are nice and low. Not surprising youre in a low stress/boost scenario given the nice light chassis you have installed it in.

There's more in the block if you want it, but it will last forever if you leave it in its current low stress condition.

Not everyone wants to chase that last little bit of hp.....nor needs to.

If you're looking for an around town daily driver with the occational light tow duty a gm8 is hard to beat. With reasonable boost numbers and staying in its efficiency range it will last forever. There thousands of them running around out there with 200,000 + miles on them and still going.

They can be had affordably too. I just picked up another one for 100 bucks. No axial shaft play and minimal radial. Ready to go on a truck as is. Oem quality turbo for 100 bucks. Thats hard to argue with. No wondering if the turbine will come apart because some chinese factory shorted on the alloy or questionable clearances or substandard bearing materials.

It might not be the best choice if you plan to spin the engine around the 3400 rpm limit all the time, but it is an excellent choice for an "around towner". If i was going to spin the engine near the rpm limit, I wouldnt be using a "copy" turbocharger. I'd belly up to the bar and spend a grand on a known quality unit like an s300 series or the like. It's even more important to get a high quality unit if you've spent 7-10 grand on a new engine. Oh how I would cry if the compressor wheel came apart at 150,000 rpm and sprayed down the engine with frag....

Some guys tend to loose sight of the intended use in pursuit of the highest number they can post on a piece of paper. It's intended use that matters, not numbers. A gm8 is king on a daily driver as transient response is near immediate.

If you want to gross 20,000+ lbs it's a different story. But that's not the intended use here and is far outside this particular vehicle's chassis capability.

In NA form, your p400 will probably last longer than forever.

Stay the course, you're doin' fine.

:)

[Vin82k3500]

great white and dmax maveric im in total agreance my nv4500 is only rated for a gvwr of 14500 so I never plan on having more than that in my state is is illegal to tow more than 10001 pound unless you got air brakes I only tow around 6k with this truck that may weigh 5 k with a full tank of fuel and me driving it;)stock level is all I feel I need I would like my investment to last numbers arent big to me again as i said i think as you seem to agree for light footed lil ol me all of 5 foot 3 whom had to lower is 4x4 so he didnt need to stand on a milk crate to get in it is not an agressive driver at all

[Vin82k3500]

Agree.

Keep an eye on your pyro and no damage will be done.

An optimizer (your p400 is an optimizer on steroids) is supposed to be good for around 20-25 psi sustained, so 14-15 psi is still in the comfort zone for longevity.

But there's no sense pushing a GMx turbo into that range if you're happy with the current power level and your egts are nice and low. Not surprising youre in a low stress/boost scenario given the nice light chassis you have installed it in.

There's more in the block if you want it, but it will last forever if you leave it in its current low stress condition.

Not everyone wants to chase that last little bit of hp.....nor needs to.

If you're looking for an around town daily driver with the occational light tow duty a gm8 is hard to beat. With reasonable boost numbers and staying in its efficiency range it will last forever. There thousands of them running around out there with 200,000 + miles on them and still going.

They can be had affordably too. I just picked up another one for 100 bucks. No axial shaft play and minimal radial. Ready to go on a truck as is. Oem quality turbo for 100 bucks. Thats hard to argue with. No wondering if the turbine will come apart because some chinese factory shorted on the alloy or questionable clearances or substandard bearing materials.

It might not be the best choice if you plan to spin the engine around the 3400 rpm limit all the time, but it is an excellent choice for an "around towner". If i was going to spin the engine near the rpm limit, I wouldnt be using a "copy" turbocharger. I'd belly up to the bar and spend a grand on a known quality unit like an s300 series or the like. It's even more important to get a high quality unit if you've spent 7-10 grand on a new engine. Oh how I would cry if the compressor wheel came apart at 150,000 rpm and sprayed down the engine with frag....

Some guys tend to loose sight of the intended use in pursuit of the highest number they can post on a piece of paper. It's intended use that matters, not numbers. A gm8 is king on a daily driver as transient response is near immediate.

If you want to gross 20,000+ lbs it's a different story. But that's not the intended use here and is far outside this particular vehicle's chassis capability.

In NA form, your p400 will probably last longer than forever.

Stay the course, you're doin' fine.

:)
agreed I am most likely gonna just order a gm-8 if I dont get a decent used one what you mentioned is the reason I was sketchy of a knock off the same reason I buy the gm fluid for my nv4500:)

[racedaymechanic]

Agree.

Keep an eye on your pyro and no damage will be done.

An optimizer (your p400 is an optimizer on steroids) is supposed to be good for around 20-25 psi sustained, so 14-15 psi is still in the comfort zone for longevity.

But there's no sense pushing a GMx turbo into that range if you're happy with the current power level and your egts are nice and low. Not surprising youre in a low stress/boost scenario given the nice light chassis you have installed it in.

There's more in the block if you want it, but it will last forever if you leave it in its current low stress condition.

Not everyone wants to chase that last little bit of hp.....nor needs to.

If you're looking for an around town daily driver with the occational light tow duty a gm8 is hard to beat. With reasonable boost numbers and staying in its efficiency range it will last forever. There thousands of them running around out there with 200,000 + miles on them and still going.

They can be had affordably too. I just picked up another one for 100 bucks. No axial shaft play and minimal radial. Ready to go on a truck as is. Oem quality turbo for 100 bucks. Thats hard to argue with. No wondering if the turbine will come apart because some chinese factory shorted on the alloy or questionable clearances or substandard bearing materials.

It might not be the best choice if you plan to spin the engine around the 3400 rpm limit all the time, but it is an excellent choice for an "around towner". If i was going to spin the engine near the rpm limit, I wouldnt be using a "copy" turbocharger. I'd belly up to the bar and spend a grand on a known quality unit like an s300 series or the like. It's even more important to get a high quality unit if you've spent 7-10 grand on a new engine. Oh how I would cry if the compressor wheel came apart at 150,000 rpm and sprayed down the engine with frag....

Some guys tend to loose sight of the intended use in pursuit of the highest number they can post on a piece of paper. It's intended use that matters, not numbers. A gm8 is king on a daily driver as transient response is near immediate.

If you want to gross 20,000+ lbs it's a different story. But that's not the intended use here and is far outside this particular vehicle's chassis capability.

In NA form, your p400 will probably last longer than forever.

Stay the course, you're doin' fine.

:)
I have a genuine Holset Hybrid on Brutus now I can adjust the boost where ever I want it to Be, The GM turbo is fine as long as you don't expect much as far as towing and performance, There is no comparison between the GM-8 and The Holset Turbo im running now EGTs are 200 degrees lower and It pulls hard going up mountains with the 5th wheel on, I put the GM-8 back on for a trip about a month ago and It was just how I remember you start going up the grades and the EGTs go on past 1200 and you have no choice but to back off, With the Holset on the exacts same run I was 1 gear higher and running at half throttle, Look Ive been around these 6.5s for over 10 years and know the ins and outs, If he wants to run the stock turbo thats fine I just think the engine and he will be alot better with a Good turbo, The ATT is a very good upgrade too

[Vin82k3500]

I have a genuine Holset Hybrid on Brutus now I can adjust the boost where ever I want it to Be, The GM turbo is fine as long as you don't expect much as far as towing and performance, There is no comparison between the GM-8 and The Holset Turbo im running now EGTs are 200 degrees lower and It pulls hard going up mountains with the 5th wheel on, I put the GM-8 back on for a trip about a month ago and It was just how I remember you start going up the grades and the EGTs go on past 1200 and you have no choice but to back off, With the Holset on the exacts same run I was 1 gear higher and running at half throttle, Look Ive been around these 6.5s for over 10 years and know the ins and outs, If he wants to run the stock turbo thats fine I just think the engine and he will be alot better with a Good turbo, The ATT is a very good upgrade too how is your low end when I had an hx35 on my 6.2 it was very laggy worse on the bottom then n/a it was like my cummins as far as part throttle response which is why I dont care for them????

[racedaymechanic]

how is your low end when I had an hx35 on my 6.2 it was very laggy worse on the bottom then n/a it was like my cummins as far as part throttle response which is why I dont care for them????
Thats just the opposite of what I have experienced Mine spools super quick as fast or faster than the GM8 all of the guys I have sold my kit to and put the HX40II on say the same thing

[greatwhite]

how is your low end when I had an hx35 on my 6.2 it was very laggy worse on the bottom then n/a it was like my cummins as far as part throttle response which is why I dont care for them????

Well, there's a lot at play there beside the model number (IE:hx35).

An HX 35 can come with a number of different exhaust housings.

http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/turbo_faq.htm

I'm not going to argue the sizes given on that page, I accept no responsibility for it's accuracy. It was the first page that came up on Google. Use at your own risk. But the numbers work well enough for this discussion to illustrate some basic principles.

For example, if the particular HX35 you tried had an 18cm2 turbine housing it will take longer to build minimum rpm than a 14cm2 housing regardless of what displacement or type of engine it's installed on.

It could have been as simple as you got one with a 14cm2 housing when a 12cm2 housing might have been a better match.

The same can be said for the turbine inducer/exducer ratio and how everything overall relates to the AR rating.

While a 2cm2 difference in housing size doesn't sound like much, when you're talking speeds on the order of 140-150,000 rpm it can make a huge difference in mass flow.

The HX 40 is the same way, it's offered in many configurations. Get a turbine housing that's "loose" and it can give a "laggy" feeling. Get one that's too tight and it can help produce higher egt's (what is known as backpressure).

It's not just as simple as pulling a turbocharger off another engine because it's similar in CID and bolting it on. You can try it and you may get lucky, or you may crap out. It's pure practical experimentation if you don't do some math first. Don't get me wrong; getting out there and just trying it works sometimes. Other time not so much....

You can also do the numbers and still end up with "laggy" throttle response. The engine and the turbo charger need to be fine tuned to each others characteristics. Chucking a turbo on a NA diesel will give you not much more than lower egt's until you turn up the fueling rate. Which will create more available drive for the turbo, which will improve it's transient response and may eliminate the "lag" tendency.

Every turbocharger can cause negative characteristics, the sweet spot is in the numbers and the matching with a particular engine combination.

That's all pretty non-specific and without going into painful detail, but that's it in a nutshell......

[racedaymechanic]

Well, there's a lot at play there beside the model number (IE:hx35).

An HX 35 can come with a number of different exhaust housings.

http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/turbo_faq.htm

I'm not going to argue the sizes given on that page, I accept no responsibility for it's accuracy. It was the first page that came up on Google. Use at your own risk. But the numbers work well enough for this discussion to illustrate some basic principles.

For example, if the particular HX35 you tried had an 18cm2 turbine housing it will take longer to build minimum rpm than a 14cm2 housing regardless of what displacement or type of engine it's installed on.

It could have been as simple as you got one with a 14cm2 housing when a 12cm2 housing might have been a better match.

The same can be said for the turbine inducer/exducer ratio and how everything overall relates to the AR rating.

While a 2cm2 difference in housing size doesn't sound like much, when you're talking speeds on the order of 140-150,000 rpm it can make a huge difference in mass flow.

The HX 40 is the same way, it's offered in many configurations. Get a turbine housing that's "loose" and it can give a "laggy" feeling. Get one that's too tight and it can help produce higher egt's (what is known as backpressure).

It's not just as simple as pulling a turbocharger off another engine because it's similar in CID and bolting it on. You can try it and you may get lucky, or you may crap out. It's pure practical experimentation if you don't do some math first. Don't get me wrong; getting out there and just trying it works sometimes. Other time not so much....

You can also do the numbers and still end up with "laggy" throttle response. The engine and the turbo charger need to be fine tuned to each others characteristics. Chucking a turbo on a NA diesel will give you not much more than lower egt's until you turn up the fueling rate. Which will create more available drive for the turbo, which will improve it's transient response and may eliminate the "lag" tendency.

Every turbocharger can cause negative characteristics, the sweet spot is in the numbers and the matching with a particular engine combination.

That's all pretty non-specific and without going into painful detail, but that's it in a nutshell......
I have a 14cm The 12 will spool faster but the 14 will make more power and lower EGTs than the 12

[Vin82k3500]

im looking for 200 hp flywheel and 450 ft lb of torque flywheel not rear wheel I feel im close to that with no turbo not saying for sure not dynoed its in a 4500 lb pickup that only tows 6 to 7 k i drive easy I did turn up fuel but I do believe my hx 35 was the larger one dont remember in a nutshell I had a dodge cummins and was not real fond of it since watched a few vids of 6.5 tds with holesets on them maybey warming up but there is no guesswork with a gm8 I only drive open roads I had a newer 6.5 td with a gm8 and it had awesome response thats all Im looking for no issues with egts ever ar far as towing is concerned it may be helpfull if you new I towed with this truck for 6 years with a 4.3 liter gas v6 and never had a complaint on power I got 313000 miles out of it towing most of those miles I am looking at pros and cons originally I started the thread cause I was considering a banks and a garret that I can get cheap that are good but they are non wastegated Im not looking for gobs of power just the bennies of having a turbo I probably dont need a turbo on this engine in this little truck. it wants for no more with out one.

[Vin82k3500]

Thats just the opposite of what I have experienced Mine spools super quick as fast or faster than the GM8 all of the guys I have sold my kit to and put the HX40II on say the same thing
you sell a kit ? I didnt have a kit I tried one of my cummins that sucked anyway I will be honest maybey not the best example but that truck has me scared for life as far as anything having to do with that c word

[racedaymechanic]

you sell a kit ? I didnt have a kit I tried one of my cummins that sucked anyway I will be honest maybey not the best example but that truck has me scared for life as far as anything having to do with that c word
Yes I do PM me

[Vin82k3500]

Yes I do PM mesays you cannot accept pm I swapped some old parts for a 12mm hx 35 today dont remember the number now its out in the shopgarranteed to work or he will get it replaced still under warrantee

[Vin82k3500]

says you cannot accept pm I swapped some old parts for a 12mm hx 35 today dont remember the number now its out in the shopgarranteed to work or he will get it replaced still under warrantee
12cm not mm sorry

[phantom309]

I,d love to some pics of the optimizer in that old truck,.


raceday you don't accept pm's?

Nick

[Vin82k3500]

I will put some pics not much different than the old 6.2 other than the girdle and the face that the oil pan is beside my front driveshaft has all the old stuff on it I only bought a longblock but am planning on turbo and hoping I dont lose the awesome sound I have with no turbo or the response it will get 5 gears of rubber if you dont mind buying tires