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muderxtreme
05-13-2012, 05:36
hello everyone, ive been cruising the site for awhile but never posted anything so here goes. truck details are in my signature. ive posted this problem on another forum before and a thanks to great white for helping but i figure it wouldn't hurt to post this problem to a new crowd to see what advice i can get. A couple months back i replaced headgaskets and timing set, after reassembly the truck ran fine. i got a good deal on a db2 pump so i attempted to do a swap from my ds4 but later figured out that the db2 was bad so i put the ds4 back in. i didnt have a scanner at the time so i just put the ip back in the same position i had it before. It started right up and ran fine for a day or so till i came out from the store and started it. It was idleing fine in the parking lot till i put it in gear. the truck idled way down and started jerking and had no throttle response. i swapped pmds in the parking lot, checked that lift pump was working, and did a good once over on everything to make sure i hadnt forgotten to plug something up. i ended up getting it home 4 hours later by unplugging the optical sensor and limping it home at 25mph and having to restart it several times. i have since purchased the gmtd scan from engh motors and adjusted the timing and did a tdco learn. the only codes im getting are 91-98 cylinder balance faults.
the truck will start and idle fine then go into running rough. From viewing the data on my laptop, I've observed that whenever the truck is running good and accepting throttle the fuel rate is between 7 and 9mm2. the timing reads about 4* desired and 4*actual. Whenever the truck starts running rough and wont accept throttle the fuel rate between 20 and 25 and timing is about 7* desired and 7* actual with a tdco of -.75.
i started diagnosing by rechecking my work with the timing set, making sure all gears were lined up and no key ways were sheared. then moved on to checking sensors and wiring, ive checked the entire ip harness and the pmd extension harness as well. i also found the the optical sensor has a hole in the bottom of it and the plug that appears to have been covering the hole was rattling around inside the sensor. great white suggested unplugging the coolant temp sensor on the water crossover and the timing went to 16* and idled up to 1k rpm. it seemed to run a little better and accepted throttle. Ive read alot online and it seems that all of this may be symptoms of a warn rotor head in the pump but i want to make sure before i drop $600 on another pump. I figure if the rotor head was worn out then it would run like crap consistently instead of running fine for a couple minutes then going south.
I also noticed that the transmission turbine speed sensor output isnt consistent. it will read out about 800rpm at idle then drop to 50 for half a second then back to ~800.
thanks

i just remembered i posted a video about a week ago on youtube. i have done a relearn so the tdco is different but the symptoms are still the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEiw2k4yYNE

Robyn
05-13-2012, 06:04
HI
WELCOME TO TDP

This may sound over simplistic, but when was the last time the fuel filter was changed ???

Make sure you have a good healthy supply of fuel to the IP even while the engine is running.

You should be able to open the water drain while the enigine is running and have fuel come out and the engine remain running.

If these things check out OK then we can move on.

The cylinder misfire codes 91-98 points to a serious IP issue
If your filter is ok and fuel supply is OK, check the return line to make sure you are not getting AIR in the system (install a little piece of clear plastic tube on the return line to check this)

If still nothing, the fickle finger of fate is really pointing at the IP

Another thing you might check is the fuel shutoff solenoid, to make sure it goes click real good when the key is turned on. (round gizmo on the top front of the IP)

A failing fuel shutoff thats barely allowing fuel in could cuase issues, but this is a long shot.

We just dont want to run off and spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$ :eek: if its not needed.

Keep us posted

Missy

muderxtreme
05-13-2012, 06:20
fuel filter has less than 100 miles on it (i changed it when i did the timing set)
i also replaced fuel sock and lift pump and cleaned the tank out about 2k miles ago
i am getting good flow out of the bypass valve
i will check the return line like you said
and fate does seem to be pointing towards the ip
thanks!

i actually removed the fuel shutoff solenoid when it started leaking profusely and plugged the hole about a year ago. i put a relay on the harness to fool the ecm to thinking the fos is still there, no codes. i had full intentions of fixing it but the truck doesnt run any different without it and new ones are 90$.

DmaxMaverick
05-13-2012, 06:44
fuel filter has less than 100 miles on it (i changed it when i did the timing set)
i also replaced fuel sock and lift pump and cleaned the tank out about 2k miles ago
i am getting good flow out of the bypass valve
i will check the return line like you said
and fate does seem to be pointing towards the ip
thanks!

i actually removed the fuel shutoff solenoid when it started leaking profusely and plugged the hole about a year ago. i put a relay on the harness to fool the ecm to thinking the fos is still there, no codes. i had full intentions of fixing it but the truck doesnt run any different without it and new ones are 90$.

Really bad juju, here. With the ESS (engine stop solenoid) unavailable, the PCM, or you, have NO way to stop a runaway engine. If other issues arise, such as a failing PMD, IP or ECM, the engine can run away (maximum fueling). Normally, the PCM will detect an engine overspeed, and kill the engine, by taking power away from the ESS. Or, turning off the key will do the same. Without this, a runaway will just keep running away, until it stops by mechanical means (such as pistons exiting through the new gaping hole in the hood). EFI fuel systems primarily stop the engine by defueling via the fuel solenoid (inside the IP). The ESS is a secondary, and necessary method.

Robyn
05-13-2012, 06:59
I agree with Maverick 100% on the fuel solenoid issue.

Get a new fuel shut off on the thing NOW.

I have seen a few runaways and it can get really ugly and right quick.

Normally cutting the power to the IP will stop he thing, buttttttttttttt if the internals of the IP (fuel metering valve) sticks wide loose, your screwed and could do nothing to stop it :eek:

A fuel shut off solenoid is not all that spendy either.

Sounds like a bad IP at this point.

A fresh IP, which comes with a new solenoid and you should be on your way to some joy again.

Make sure if you get another IP that its compatible with your system.
there is one ODD BALL IP and thats the 5068. This one was a 94 heavy duty only

The 5067 was also used. The 5521 is the common replacement IP seen today.

Missy

muderxtreme
05-13-2012, 07:09
i gotcha. i know its necessary but i never got around to it. plus, like you said a new ip will come with one anyways. guess ill try to source a new ip next.

Robyn
05-13-2012, 17:07
Sounds like a plan.

Keep us posted on how it goes


Missy

ccc
05-21-2012, 06:46
Am I reading this thread correctly? Is there a substitute for the ds4? Will the 5521 work in place of a ds4?

DmaxMaverick
05-21-2012, 14:09
Am I reading this thread correctly? Is there a substitute for the ds4? Will the 5521 work in place of a ds4?

DS4 is the pump series prefix, and 5521 is the other end of the part number. DS4 merely designates the pump series as EFI, while DB2/4 is mechanical. Many pump series (4 digit number) will work in place of many others. There are very few exceptions, and are almost always limited to 1994 models and military versions.

muderxtreme
05-24-2012, 10:40
finally got around to workin on the 6.5. been too busy lately. i put a peice of clear tubing on my return line and holy cow theres alot of air getting in the system. found a couple bad return lines and an injector line leaking. only reason i didnt see it before was because it was dripping onto the header and burning off. im gonna order some new return lines and go over the whole fuel system in the meantime. any problem areas i need to pay close attention to?

greatwhite
05-30-2012, 15:20
If there's air in the system, carefully your fuel feed lines.

Check the rubber for age cracking and check your metal lines at the tank for rusting.

Cracked hoses or rust pinholes can allow air to enter the system.

I can't remember; is this the truck that ran fine on the ds4 before you tried the DB2 swap and then ran like crap after you reinstalled the DS4?

muderxtreme
05-31-2012, 06:29
okay ill make sure i start from the tank and work my way up. yes, its the same truck

muderxtreme
06-09-2012, 08:43
finally got around to working on the truck. pulled the filer housing and i found the culprit. cracked feed line to the filter housing and a crack in te housing itself. replaced both, set the timing and its runnin like a champ. got an oil leak on the front of the oil pan now.....theres always somethin. thanks to all