broken starter bracket bolt

[93_Burrito]

I recently picked up a '94 6.5L Blazer. This was a 1-owner, and that owner passed away right before Christmas. Garage kept, 100% factory, a pile of service records and 132k miles on the clock.

Two issues came up when testing the truck out before purchase. First, it rode like a water mattress. Second, I was told that a starter bolt had previously been broken, was drilled out, and a new bolt was installed. It made me suspicious that the support bracket was missing.

Fast-forward a little bit, and here we are. The water mattress ride was due to a broken sway bar link on the passenger side. For good measure, I replaced the driver's side, and that was a great idea because the long bolt snapped in half with little effort when I tried to remove the locknut.
I moved on to the starter. Whoever last dropped it must have torqued the 2 bolts to eleventy billion foot pounds. I managed to get them out with a 1/2" air impact wrench (ridiculous). Sure enough, there was no support bracket to be found. The heat shield was present, and the bolt securing the heat shield and start support bracket to the engine block was too.

I picked up a new bracket at a local dealership ($15.87 + tax). Got a new bolt to connect the bracket to the starter at Lowe's. Back in the garage, I got my socket wrench on the bracket bolt in the engine block and turned it a little... head snapped off.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/2.jpeg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/4.jpeg


http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/3.jpeg


The washers were behind the heat shield and fell out with the bolt head.

I searched the forum to see if any other threads addressed this particular problem, but no dice. Does anyone have any particular ideas? I don't weld... should I farm it out?

[a5150nut]

I would hazard a guess your going to need to get in there with a drill and easy out. Probable need to do something to make access a little better like at least raising the motor a little.

But, and you knew one was comining, I would also be looking at all those freeze plugs. The one in your picture looks a little hinkey. Lools like it is about to rust through.

Good luck and wait arround a little bit. Someone who has acualy done this before will chime in. . . .

[Robyn]

Carefully drilling out the broken bolt is about the only option with this issue.

Its been a while since I have sat in the wheel well and looked at that particular spot on the engine, so I am not really sure how much room you have available to work with.

I second the motion on the soft plug.

If one is bad, they are all likely in poor shape.

The two you can see are not the worry, its the one behind the motor mount thats the toughy..

Anyway

Getting that bolt drilled out is going to take a little Care to be sure to drill it straight

As far as using an easyout ????? The bolt is so small that I would be very concerned about breaking off an easy out if the bolt prooves to be stuck hard.

Get the starter out of the way and clear out any other items (wires and such) that will be in the road.

A very small drill motor is in order to give you maximum ability to keep things straight.

IIRC the bolt is about 5/16 diameter (its metric though) so probably a 8mm X 1.25 ????

The plan here is to carefully drill a small hole through the bolt.

NOW
If ya get the hole started off crooked, your fouled.

Start with a drill that will JUST fit in the area where the bolt broke off.

Drill in a just a little bit to allow the drill to "CENTER" itself and get a starting point in the bolt.

Now go to a small drill Maybe 3/16" .

NOW this is important. If you have a drill press available ??? take a piece of aluminum flat bar of maybe 1" by 2-3" long by 3/8 thick.
Drill a 3/16 hole though this piece in the drill press so the hole is straight and true.

THIS can be your drill guide.

Lay the little piece of aluminum falt on the casting boss where the bracket bolts and let this giude your drill to keep it straight.

Drill in with the 3/16 drill (carefully) removing it often to clean it.

something like WD40 or ?? sprayed into the drilled hole will help it drill easier.

Use a top quality drill bit and not a cheapy made in china carbon steel drill.

If you work harden tha bolt and burn up a drill in there, its gonna be a BITCH to get that thing drilled.

Drill through the bolt. You should be able to break through the bolt and into the bottom of the tapped hole.

Once this happens, blow it out well and squirt the hole full of some good penetrating fluid (skunk piss) :D

Let it set over night and soak it several times.

Now you can try and easy out, but this can lead to far more serous issues if you break it off.

Myself, I would drill the hole out until you can run an original sized tap back through and clean out the existing threads.

This is not a hard job, just tedious.

The most important part is keeping that small 3/16 hole going straight down the old bolt.

Once you break through into the space below the bolt, your in good shape.
Be careful and dont get crazy and drill through the bottom of the hole and into the water jacket

This will get messy in a hurry.:eek:


You can buy the right sized tap at most parts stores.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Missy

[DmaxMaverick]

I agree with Robyn. The EZ-Out is a bad idea. They break as often as they don't. When that happens, there's no more drilling. Drill as Robyn suggests, but use a Left-Hand-Turn drill bit. Often, the broken bolt will remove itself while you're drilling. Soak the broken bolt/hole well with a good penetrator for a while (hours to days) before attempting any removal.

[phantom309]

I,m rather fortunate in cases like this,. i have a mig welder,.
As was mentioned move everything out of the way, then i spot weld onto the bolt, i,m careful to use lots of heat, 1 sec bursts' that will add materiel to the stud, after i have enough above surface, i put a nut over the stud and weld it as hot as i can with lots of penetration almost melting the nut,.
after the red has gone, but it,s still really hot,. i use a wrench and back out the busted piece,.
The most recent job i just did was 4 broken exhaust manifold bolts on a 6 litre chevy truck engine, 2 were below flush,.the heat wicking down the stud always frees them up,.

IF i was in your shoes I'd check around for a welder fabricator who,s familiar with doing a job like this, and pay to have it done,
Other option is to fab a bracket coming up from the pan rail,.

Nick

[93_Burrito]

I'm thinking I'll farm out the bolt extraction and the freeze plugs, too. Sometimes a little $$ is worth the sanity.

The more I think about it, the more I want to just pull the engine and go over it on a stand. But it starts easily and runs good, so I should probably disturb it as little as possible... for now.

[Robyn]

If your up to the task of yankng the engine, then these little issues can be handled easily.

Pop out all the soft plugs, clean the bores good and drive in some new BRASS ones.

With the trucks age, I can assure you that unless the engine has been apart, the head gaskets are in the autumn of their life.

Great time to wash the engine well, look it over good, replace head gaskets and bolts and maybe a timing chain too.

Real easy stuff when the engine is on a stand. Far easier on ones sanity too.

Good bet that there are some oil leaks that you can police up as well.

Getting all this stuff done now (summer) will make life next winter a whole lot better.

While your at it, order a fresh set of starter bolts too. These are special bolts and have a knurled spot on the shank that fits snug in the block.

Having been run without a tail hook, the main bolts get beat up a lot.

If this was my truck, here is what I would do. YANK THE ENGINE

Fix the broken bolt.
Yank the heads and replace the gaskets and bolts
Replace the timing chain and the covr seal
Take a good look at the water pump and decide if its best to replace it.
Remove the pan, replace the rear main seal, and reinstall the pan with new goop.
Pan is an easy one if you want to do the timing chain anyway.
Great time to stuff in a fresh crank sensor (these can be a bitch to get out if they are old)
Do a really good wash job and paint the sucker.
Maybe some fresh glow plugs
New Oil pressure switch
Maybe a glow controller (Only because its going to be off anyway to gain access to the back of the engine during the removal)
New oil drain hose on the turbo drain pipe. ( be sure to use the proper hose and not heater hose)

Look over the fuel filter for any signs of leaks at the bottom.
New fuel lines from the filter to the IP and to the water drain cock.

All these little things are very easy while your in there
Great time to replace the heater "quick connector" and the top heater feed hose
Top and botom radiator hoses and clamps.
New serp belt (check the tensioner pulley bearing for NOISY bearing)

Flush out the radiator real good and wash the fins out from engine side out to front.
Always full of crap after many years

Take a really good look at the oil cooler lines. (they usually leak by this time in their life)

A lot of oportunity at this juncture to head off potential failures that certainly will not happen when its "Handy"

Good luck

Missy

[phantom309]

If this was my truck, here is what I would do. YANK THE ENGINE

Fix the broken bolt.
Yank the heads and replace the gaskets and bolts
Replace the timing chain and the covr seal
Take a good look at the water pump and decide if its best to replace it.
Remove the pan, replace the rear main seal, and reinstall the pan with new goop.
Pan is an easy one if you want to do the timing chain anyway.
Great time to stuff in a fresh crank sensor (these can be a bitch to get out if they are old)
Do a really good wash job and paint the sucker.
Maybe some fresh glow plugs
New Oil pressure switch
Maybe a glow controller (Only because its going to be off anyway to gain access to the back of the engine during the removal)
New oil drain hose on the turbo drain pipe. ( be sure to use the proper hose and not heater hose)

Look over the fuel filter for any signs of leaks at the bottom.
New fuel lines from the filter to the IP and to the water drain cock.

All these little things are very easy while your in there
Great time to replace the heater "quick connector" and the top heater feed hose
Top and botom radiator hoses and clamps.
New serp belt (check the tensioner pulley bearing for NOISY bearing)

Flush out the radiator real good and wash the fins out from engine side out to front.
Always full of crap after many years

Take a really good look at the oil cooler lines. (they usually leak by this time in their life)

A lot of oportunity at this juncture to head off potential failures that certainly will not happen when its "Handy"

Good luck

Missy

Great advice,.. form the owner of the poor "moldy" dahooly.waiting for its heart replacement :D

Nick

[93_Burrito]

A lot of things Missy touched on were items I've been thinking about, if I were to pull the engine. I've never pulled one before, but I've done a transmission/t-case swap and 6.5L head gaskets with the engine in the truck. I'm not afraid to tear into stuff like this, so if my other half lets me hog up the garage for a bit, I'm game.

[Robyn]

When pulling the engine from one of these, its pretty easy.

Get the fan shroud off (top and bottom) battery cables unhooked, coolant drained and the accessories off.

AC can be tied over into the battery tray and the lines left connected.

PS pump can be tied over to to the side and lines left attached.

Remove the exhaust manifolds (makes a lot more room to work)
Take the turbo off first ( The oil drain line on the turbo can stay attached to the block at this time)


Unhook the radiator hoses and get as much green juice out as possible.
Remove the radiator and put in safe harbor.

Unhook the oil cooler lines and leave the lines on the engine at this time.

Remove the front drive shaft (4x4) and the exhaust crossover.
Remove the bellhousing lower cover.
Remove the torque converter bolts 6
Get the starter off. Easy access in through the RH fender well.
Unplug the two main wiring harness plugs that connect the engine to the main wire harness on the firewall.

Unhook and remove the glow plug controller and remove the Oil pressure switch too.

Get the glow plug wires unhooked from the plugs and lay them out of the way to the sides

Remove the two main front motor mount bolts (long ones that go front to back)
Remove the bell housing bolts (if the engine is original these are 9/16 head) later engines (96 0n) use metric bolts

Place a jack under the tranny pan with a flat plywood or ??? to spread out the load.

Lift the engine using the front and rear factory lift hooks.
Remove the RH front motor mount from the frame when you get the weight off the mounts.

This allows you to swing the engine slightly to the RH side and not have to lift it above the mounts.

Depending on the truck and how much the body has settled, the tranny can hit the body and be tough to get the engine out and up.

With that mount off, the engine can come right out.

Once the engine is out, you can slip a 2x4 in sideway across the torsion bars and stick a couple long bolts into two bolt holes in the tranny to support it while you are doing the engine.

The two long starter bolts work great for this.

Once you get the bulk of the crap ripped off the engine its pretty easy to work in the engine bay.

I mentioned before that the heater quick connector is a candidate at this time.

If you break the old one off, you can easly cut the broken piece in two with a die grinder and then remove the old broken stuff.

Clean out the hole with a 1/2 inch pipe tap and its off to the rodeo with a fresh connector (steel)

I think thats about it. ??????????????

Very easy task.

Our 94 Burb was the first 6.5 that I pulled out and did it in about 6 hours by myself from start to finish.

The one area thats a bitch is the fuel line bracket that bolts to two stud topped bellhousing bolts on the top right below the filter.

The nuts on these are locking type and can be anoying.
I suggest replacing the nuts with non locking type flange headed metric nuts.

The bolt is 3/8" standard thread, but the nuts are metric.

The easiest way to get these nuts off is to get a buddy (Girl friend) :D
to sneak a LOOOOOONG extension up from below and up past the side of the tranny with a wiggly socket (universal)

Get the two top bolts out and the two very bottom bolts first.
Now once everything is ready to come out, remove the remaining two side bolts on the bellhousing.

Install in reverse order so you dont flex the tranny and put things in a bind.
Once the engine is mated to the tranny and the dowels aligned, the two center bolts will hold it fine.

You can then add the two bottom once, tighten well and then fight the top two last.

Buckle the converter back up and so it goes

Hope this helps.

This girl here has shed a lot of SKIN and BLOOD on these things.

Most of it is pretty easy and straight forward.


NOW, the battery cables are another issue that you may want to deal with.

The power to the main + buss goes down under the engine and up behind and then to the aparatus box on the firewall. (94 truck)

The cables tend to see the ends go south.

I would replace the cables with welding cable and use top post with studs.
Solder on the copper EYE ends.

You can run a #2 cable across the inner fender on the RH side and sneak it into the aparatus box very clean and easy.

The main cable for the starter goes to the RH battery.
The left hand battery +cable crosses the header support.
The Alternator connects to the LH battery.

Make sure all this stuff is in good order.
Looking at the ends does not show the real picture.

The cables corrode in the cable core under the red jackets on the ends.

Just a few things to think about while it easy to get to.

Right above the starter, the wires sneak down behind the engine and head to the starter.

There is an area of the block that usually has some nasty casting flash that has been known to wear into the wires.

Make sure that area is smooth and if need be, grind off the flash in the casting.

Here is a Piccy of the casting flash area

Hope this stuff is useful

Missy

[93_Burrito]

That looks easy enough. Boss lady told me to have at it... if I'm going to keep the vehicle for a while, may as well go over it and do it right. I've pretty much done everything you mentioned before, with the exception of actually unbolting the motor mounts. No need to remove the hood or core support?

The one issue I'm thinking of right now is room for the engine lift/crane/hoist. My garage is 22' deep. I can gain a few extra inches by rolling the truck back with the garage door open, but then my driveway starts from the garage with an immediately downslope, and we don't want to go there.

The only thing left before the fun begins is getting an engine lift and a stand. Any recommendations? Should I trying renting them from an auto parts chain? Have a Harbor Freight nearby, too.

[a5150nut]

I would keep the business end all in the garage. When I read your post I had a vision of a burito with stick figure legs and arms chasing an engine hoist and motor down a steep incline!

Be sure to get a hoist and stand heavy enough for the load you going to put on it. And if it were me and I had someone to help, I would remove the hood just to make life easy.

Take it slow. Take lots of pictures. And have fun!

[Robyn]

Get the hood off and to safe harbor.
This really opens things up and allows a lot more light in and room to work.

The core support itself is fine. Just get the radiator out and to safe harbor.
These are plastic and aluminum and one slip, :(

An engine stand that can handle 800+ pounds is the ticket.

Get a 4 wheeled stand, NOT a 3 legged one.

The 6.5 in full dress is HEAVY.

The 3 legged versions can handle V6 enignes and small block V8's but these diesels are just heavy.

I have a four wheeled stand that I added some extra steel to, and it still makes me nervous with a 6.5 on it.

Same goes for an engine lift.

The 3 legged ones are fine but be sure its rated for 1000 Pounds.
The stuff that Harbir freight sells wil do, just be sure of the weight rating.

If you were going to be doing a lot of these sorts of things, I would say to step up a grade or two, but for home use, HF is OK

My stand is from harbor freight, then I added some reinforcing to it.

Have fun and be safe.

Missy

[phantom309]

with the motor out it will be easy to fix the bolt,
This where i did an LT 1 exhaust stud for a pal.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/wtfuashols123/MVC-0999.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/wtfuashols123/MVC-013S.jpghttp://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/wtfuashols123/MVC-015S.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/wtfuashols123/MVC-014S.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/wtfuashols123/MVC-016S.jpg

I didn't use a nut because i was teaching him how to do 1 sec bursts and build the bolt up so we could grab it,. i was dousing it with WD 40 sometimes and making lots of smelly smoke,.;) and for all the naysayers, the weld doesn't stick to the cast iron unless you go crazy and hold the trigger for a while,.turn the gas right up too,.
I just bought a 6 litre gas motor, i got it cheap because it had 4 broken exhaust bolts,. 2 below flush,.

Nick

[93_Burrito]

Harbor Freight stuff seems to be hit or miss. I bought an 800 lb transmission jack at HF for swapping out a 4L80E, and I don't think I'd want 500 lbs on it.

For an extra $50, I can get a 2000 lb capacity engine hoist at HF instead of a 1000 lb unit. I need to shop around a little bit to see if there are any deals to be had.

I'd like to get rid of the EGR junk on this engine while I'm at it... just yanked the snorkel out of the fender... larger exhaust and newer style air filter box would be wonderful. The original owner had everything replaced after the downpipe, as well as the crossover pipe, but the exhaust is still factory size.

Alright, I got some shopping to do...

[Robyn]

The intake manifold and top hat from an F engne (non egr type) can be swapped right on.

If your going this far and looking to improve performance some, I would talk to either John Kennedy or Bill Heath and get a prom for the computer that will allow running a turbo master mechanical waste gate controller.

The egr would also be eliminated with a custom program too.

This will add performance and eliminate the issues with the EGR and waste gate codes that could pop up.

A good 3-1/2 or 4 inch exhaust will really help the little beast too.

Your definately on the right track with shopping for a lift and stand.

Ya might even check out craigs list in your area and see whatcha can find:)

Missy

[93_Burrito]

Got a question about freeze plugs... I'm shopping around and seeing solid brass and solid steel plugs, as well as rubber plugs with brass "plates." Missy, you mentioned getting brass plugs earlier. Were you being loose with that? Or are brass plugs better than steel here?

[Robyn]

Not loose at all, the real deal.

The best choice is to get a set of brass "cup" plugs
These look just like regular soft plugs but are made of brass.

Just remove the old stell plugs by driving them in with a large punch, then turn them sideways and pry them out of the block using a vise grips, ORRRRRRR >??????

Clean the bores really well with a wire brush on a dies grinder or drill motor, then a little fine sand paper to make sure the bore is good.

Smear a little Permatex 2 on the outer rim of the plug and drive it into the bore.

Use a socket that will just slip inside the cup, sit the cup in the bore and drive it in with a large "club" intill the outer rim is just flush with the block.

Done deal

The Rubber ones are OK in a pinch to get ya going, but I dont like them for long term solutions.

The brass ones do not corrode/rust from the inside or outside like the steel ones do.

Out here in the Northwest we dont have salt, so plugs can look great on the outside, but the inside at the bottom will rot through to the point that they all of a sudden start seeping.


Brass is the ticket. I have a set of brass ones installed in the AMG engine thats going back in DaHooooley.

Now, for the most part, a set of new steel ones will last many years, but as long as your going to the trouble to yank the engine to fix the other issues, ya might as well use the good ones.

The extra cost of the brass ones is minimal.

Just be sure to use a socket inside the cup to drive them in.

The socket must fit inside the cup with just enough room to allow the cup to compress as it goes into the hole and not grab the socket.

If your socket has maybe 1/32" of clearance between the cup flanges, your good to go.

Missy

[93_Burrito]

Back from the dead here...

So... about the time I began this thread, I started to get sick. I made it to engine removal time, and picked up an engine stand and crane, but I just ran out of gas. Physically, just felt wiped out. I played the waiting game, figuring I'd get better soon and could finish the job. Fast forward 8 months, and I'm still sick...

I finally decided to have the Blazer hauled to a new shop nearby, and their diesel mechanic replaced the freeze plugs and took care of the broken bolt for the starter's tail bracket. I'm somewhat bummed that I haven't been up to doing the work myself, but I'm happy to have found a shop only 5 minutes away, that works on diesels, and are honest and reasonable guys. I'll certainly use them again in the future.

As for now, the Blazer is running good. I'd still like to freshen up the engine while it's on a stand, but that will just have to wait.