Strange Rattle... Think From Turbo

[scot5146]

:confused:

OK Y'all

pulled the turbo off and took the sections apart to check everything out while changing injectors and glow plugs on my 99 K2500 Suburban...


Problem: Bad Rattle... What Did I do wrong?

DID I GET THE WASTE GATE INSIDE OF THE HOUSING MESSED UP Somehow?

The sound is on the back half of the turbo...

PLEASE HELP!!!!:confused:

Thanks

Mike
Vancouver WA

[DennisG01]

Mike, can you describe the rattle? Is it "tinny" or "heavier" sounding, for example? Could it be the heat shield or the brace/strut?

[Robyn]

You just changed the injectors???

A fresh set of injectors can cause a nasty rattly sound to amplify through the heat shield on the back of the turbo.

Very clicky sound.

Try holding a heavy gloved hand on the heat shield and see if this dampens the noise out.

I have heard many of these things make terribly clicky noises.

Wht the likely cuplrit is, is the injectors closing and the noise telescopes through the engine and the little metal heat shield seems to pick it up and amplify it.

If this does not stop the noise, remove the air let to the turbo (engine off) and spin the impeller by hand and see if there is any noise. (should not be any)

Keep us posted

Missy

[scot5146]

I think that's it, If I put pressure on the heat shield on the back of the turbo it seems to muffle the sound...

So now what? Will it clean up with time or is one of the injectors bad? I just ordered rebuilds and had them tested at DFIS in Portland and they said they were good...

[Robyn]

hate to be the harbinger of bad news, but I have seen brand new trucks from GM (back in the day) that had the noise.

I passed up one GMC, new out of the box at the dealer because the noise was terrible.

Scare up a piece of 1/4" thick sheet lead and fasten it to the flat area on the back of the shield.

Or if you like you can fasten some of that heat insulator materials on the shield.

Some trucks do it and others don't.

A friend of mine had one that you hear the CLACKING inside the rig when idling at a stop light.

He finally ripped the heat shield off and bolted a piece of aluminum sheet with some 1/4" fiberglass between the two.

You must keep the heat shield in place to protect stuff thats behind it.

If this is what it is making the noise, it will sound SORT of like rattling lifters, SORT OF.
When the pressure in the injector lines drops off at the end of the injection cycle the valve inside the injector slams shut under spring pressure "Click" and this sound transmits through the head, into the manifold and then the turbo and finally the heat shield being light metal, it acts like an amplifier.

The early DODGE cummins had a heat shield on their exhaust that did a similar thing and drove folks nuts.

If this is all it is, its anoying, YESSSSSS, damaging, NO


If you want to nail it down completely, yank the heat shield off and run the engine. Just remember that the shield needs to be there.

Missy

[scot5146]

I am going to test it right now, I will let you know...

Thanks

Mike

Vancouver

[phantom309]

you might try my hill billy fix, i use a ball peen hammer and smack the tin shield and dent it till it,s stressed enough it doesn't vibrate,.

question that needs to be asked is does it do it only at idle? or constant as you bring up the revs??

check your heater/ac lines, if they get tweaked they'll vibrate against things,.firewall side,.

check turbo end play with the motor stopped eh? :D

Nick

[DmaxMaverick]

Confirm your injector lines are contacting NOTHING but the pump, injector, and the isolators. If they are in contact with any metal (especially sheet metal), they will ring out in time with the injection event. It can be very loud, depending on what they are in contact with.

[a5150nut]

If your looking for some thin sheet lead, they use lead coated dry wall in medical offices where they are going to be doing x-rays.

[JohnC]

If your looking for some thin sheet lead,

Roof flashing...
(I like the ball peen hammer idea...)

[a5150nut]

Roof flashing...
(I like the ball peen hammer idea...)


Roof flashing, all I see any more is aluminium or cooper. I like the hammer idea too!

[JohnC]

We just installed lead flashing a year ago last fall. Try a "small box store". (Prolly need some sort of EPA license to buy it...)

[scot5146]

So I am convinced that the rattle is the injector rattle through the turbo heat shield, I removed the sheild and the sound went away...

I am going to find some lead from a roof flashing, I have one in the shop somewhere...

I checked the line and they are not touching, no other issues with the rattle that I can find, the truck runs great and has a ton of power...

However I found a few problems that I can seem to fix... the engine water cooler line (for heater I think) on top of the engine is leaking at the fitting which looks like a press in with O-ring fitting... Can I just pull it and out and use a hose barb and rubber hose to replace it?

Second this whole project was to replace the injectors on my truck, but now a few of them are leaking where the line screws onto the injector, and I have tried everything but can not stop the leak? Any Ideas?


Thanks Again everyone!:D:confused:


Mike

Firefighter
Vancouver, WA

[DennisG01]

However I found a few problems that I can seem to fix... the engine water cooler line (for heater I think) on top of the engine is leaking at the fitting which looks like a press in with O-ring fitting... Can I just pull it and out and use a hose barb and rubber hose to replace it?


Do you mean the piece that has a hard line coming out of it, which then transitions to a rubber line, which then connects to a black, plastic "T"?

No, you can't. There is a restrictor inside to allow the heat to operate correctly. It's a $13 Dorman part at Autozone... #800-401 on the packaging. I just did an R&R on this as mine was clogged up.

Before you remove the piece, read through some of this thread, particularly towards the end in regards to removing that piece and it possibly breaking (if it's the original aluminum piece). New one is steel.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=39910

[scot5146]

Do you mean the piece that has a hard line coming out of it, which then transitions to a rubber line, which then connects to a black, plastic "T"?


that is the exact piece I was talking about, thanks for the part number I am going to get one tonight!

Thanks Again

Mike


Firefighter
Vancouver, WA

[scot5146]

Ok-

Well i am not sure if I am being over sensitive or not but I think I have lost power since I have replaced the new injectors a few weeks ago...

For those of you that were helping me through some of my issues before in this whole fuel system fix, thank you! But I need some help again...

PROBLEM:

My rig does not seem to have the same punch as it did with the old injectors... I step on the pedal and everything runs and sounds fine but it seems to lag just slightly before it gets moving really well...

RECENT FIX's:

Few weeks ago, did...

new (Reman) Injectors
new fuel filter assembly and filter
new AC DELCO fuel lift pump...

also fixed a few sqeeks, leaks, and rattles... The truck is running great, fuel economy is 22 mpg (my best ever)

So now what? AM I missing something. drive train maybe, transmission maybe, or am I just being hypersensitive to new and different conditions?

Thanks for any advice/ Help

Mike

Firefighter
Vancouver/ WA

[Robyn]

I have seen this very thing happen before when replacing old worn out injectors.

I am going to venture a guess, that with the old worn injectors, that once the engine is warm the sloppy injection of fuel results in a tad more fuel delivered all at once, possibly giving a slightly more "Punchy" take off.

22 MPG is certainly a good thing.

Short of doing some serious dyno testing with both set of injectors, it would be nearly impossible to sort this out.

Here is one tid bit though, with the old injectors the injection of fuel was starting earlier due to much lower pop pressure.
This condition basically could translate to a slightly advanced timing, plus with the low pop pressure and worn injectors, the fuel delivery could have been dribbling on a tad longer too as the injectors took their sweet time about closing.

Had a 94 Burb that the injectors were way past worn out, and oncve I replaced the Squirts, it ran super, started great and got good mileage too, but the seat of the pants was noticeably off from before.

I think that what you have noticed is REAL but exactly what to do about it, I can't tell you.

If you have not installed a good 4" exhaust and a Power chip form Kennedy Or Heath, then this will definately get the old girl frisky.


Missy

[scot5146]

Robyn-

I am thinking you are right on the money that makes a lot of sense... I have put on the 4" exhaust, Crossover pipe, and just the injectors i just did...

I have a used Kennedy CPU that i think I need to send to him to get checked out and flashed before I put it in old blue...

I also have a new set of gauges and inter-cooler kit that I am planning on putting into the rig soon, just got to get some time off of work to get it done!


Thanks Again for all your help


Mike

Firefighter
Vancouver, WA;)