I think I got a deal today

[CedarGrove]

I bought a pig in a poke today. It looks new but we'll have to wait and see how this plays out. http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=4701144

My 84 needs freshening up so I'm hoping this will be a fairly simple swap.

Lewis

[DmaxMaverick]

Helluva deal. The container alone is worth more than you paid.

[CedarGrove]

The coolant in the crate is making me a bit nervous. I feel like it's a new rebuild that had an issue. It is described as "Economically reparable material which requires repair, overhaul, or reconditioning. Property has some value in excess of its basic material content, but repair or rehabilitation is impractical and/or uneconomical."

At the very least I'm gonna have a load of spare parts. We'll just have to see how it plays out.

[DmaxMaverick]

.... and the box. Don't forget the box.

[DennisG01]

Holy cow - you should just mount the whole thing, the way it is, right onto your frame! Don't even take it out of the box! That's one heck of a box.

[john8662]

I'd bet some small change that's a 6.5.

Good clean Deal IMHO.

[CedarGrove]

I'd bet some small change that's a 6.5.

Good clean Deal IMHO.

What's with the heat shield on the right side? I don't think my 84 civi sports one of those.

[DmaxMaverick]

What's with the heat shield on the right side? I don't think my 84 civi sports one of those.

None of the civi models sported the exhaust manifolds, either. They are unique to HMMWV apps. You'll find this engine will have several appointments not available on any civi or CUCV model (hydraulic fan clutch, intake manifold, etc.). John may be right, and it may be a 6.5. In any case, it will have a 24V electrical system (and components), which will need to be converted. No biggie, really.

[twaddle]

The antifreeze on the floor of the crate may just be some that has run out of lower hose or water pump.

Might be worth while cutting the oil filter open to see if there is any metal on the filter material followed by rigging up a rad or just a water supply for the cooling system, a fuel supply. Install a new oil filter, fill her up with some fresh oil, connect up a couple of batteries and get her running. Oh and while you are at it connect up a gage to check oil pressure.

Good luck with what might not be a pig in a poke

Jim

[CedarGrove]

Got the motor home today. Just started digging in the easy stuff and trying to sort out what I have. Casting #s are 12555506 and 01 16 R. I think I see a small Navistar logo in the valley underneath the injector pump and large 506 in the valley. Only thing I noticed was that the #5 injector line was loose at the pump and the injector. Pulled the glow plugs (none were swollen) and turned it over by hand a couple of times. Things seemed okay there. Next step is an attempted ground hop and we'll go from there.

It has a 5209 pump on it with a sticker indicating 2008. If I read and interpret the date casting on the block correctly, it's a 2008 block (seems weird to me but that's what I am seeing). It's got GEP written all over it so I am confident that I have a Navistar block. Best I can tell it was in (or meant to be in) a N/A Hummer.

[chevytuff]

Was there a service tag attatched to the motor, they usually hang them off the front and they are color coded. The mechanics that inspect usually put the reason for pulling on it.

Red usually means you have a pile of parts, Green means that it is repairable. I bought two back in 07, one of which appeared to be immaculate from the pics, Got them both home and both had thrown rods. The 2000 Optimizer block was red tagged but the mechanic never pulled the oil pan, The reasoning on the tag said Metal chunks and coolant in crankcase. Guess he used the big gaping hole in the oil pan as a clue.

The 98 block was green tagged and listed as rebuildable. The carnage inside was worse in my opinion than the red tag block. It was a fresh rebuild and had spun a main bearing, filling the crank with molten bearing material which subsequently ate a rod bearing which melted a rod cap off. Sold bare block and usuable rods and pistons to coworker for what I paid for both and gas to pick them up. The Optimizer block I kept for myself. and it currently resides in my truck running rather well. Only added machine work was sleeving the cylinder that the rod broke in half on. When it did took a gouge out of the cylinder wall and my machinist thought it may be high enough in the cylinder to effect the piston.

Point of my long post is that you cant always trust the reason they DRMO'd the motor. As said I would check the oil, compression and if it checks out run it in the crate. you may have lucked into a nice motor for 385.00 If not you have a good foundation for building on.

[CedarGrove]

No tags anywhere so I need to sort out where the problem is. I doubt that they remove engines just for fun. Must have been a reason.

My plan is to plumb it up and run the oil pump with a drill motor and see if I get any oil pressure. If that checks out I'll plumb up the cooling system and remove the crossover, top it off, ground hop it in the crate, and look for bubbles where the crossover would attach. Also do a compression check. If things seem good, then in she goes. If things seem bad, I ought to be able to sell the GEP block for what I've got in it so far. We'll see.

[CedarGrove]

Got 50 psi oil pressure while turning the pump with a drill. So far so good! Hope to do more assessment on Saturday.

[CedarGrove]

Fired it off today in the crate. I think the block, heads, and guts are in good shape. Think the injection system needs the cobb webs cleaned out.

First thing we discovered as we were trying to prime the fuel system was that the rod that works the mech fuel pump fell down before the pump was installed so the pump was not pumping. Took the pump off and reinstalled correctly. Primed it up with the glow plugs out until the glow holes were huffing diesel. The # 5 cylinder did not seem to be getting any fuel but we snugged up the line at the pump and it seems to be coming back. Anyway...We decided to install the glow plugs in all cylinders except for #5 and turn the engine over some and see if it would begin to huff. The engine fired up immediately. I didn't think it would fire that quick without power to the glows. It fired up and the drivers had no smoke and the passenger side had heavy heavy smoke. I believe it was unburned diesel smoke and it did begin to clear as it warmed up. All of this was done with water in the jacket but no radiator. We would run it for 15 to 20 seconds at a time.

Did compression checks when it was warm.
1. 490
2. 450
3. 490
4. 480
5. 440
6. 350.
7. 480
8. 475

Number 6 has me a bit concerned, but I'd bet that none of the cylinders in my worn out engine have as much as 350 psi.

My next goal is to hook up a radiator and run the water pump. Let the engine run a bit and see what it feels like.

It's hard for me to assess how the engine sounds through these straight headers. Had to flip the passenger header over as the flange on the end of the pipe was slightly in the way of the solenoid on my 6.2 starter. I'll try to get photos of the set up tomorrow.

All in all a fun day in the driveway

[DmaxMaverick]

Sounds like a fun day. There's just something about running an engine where it isn't supposed to be. I fly model airplanes, and one of the most fun things to do is break in new engines. It's done on the bench and takes a couple hours. (folks who break in their engines in the air need extra airplanes).

The heavy smoke could be related to the low compression. A "wet" cylinder won't heat up like the rest. Perhaps a bad injector. Try switching that injector with one on the opposite bank and see if the smoke follows. If the smoke follows the injector, the injector is the problem. If it stays with the bank, then the problem is likely low compression on that cylinder. It's hard to tell with such short run periods. You should be able to run it a minute or two without risk of heat damage.

Anyway, Without knowing the history of the engine, I would be concerned with the #6 compression. It's well outside the allowable spec (10% differential, min-max). You could try to soak off any ring sooting, but it's probably more than just that. Drain the oil, turn the engine so #6 is vertical and pour #2 into the cylinder until there's enough submerge the piston crown (about 1/4 cup). Do this a couple/few times (a hour each). The fuel will loosen the soot and free the rings. Right the engine, change the oil and blow out the fuel (crank with the plug out). Fill the oil, heat up the engine and try the compression test again. Chances are, you'll have to pull the head and get a better look, and probably find the reason the engine was red-tagged. If you have to pull the heads, it'll never be easier than when it's still in the box.

[CedarGrove]

Tinkered a bit more today. The fog clears up after the cylinder warms up and the fuel actually combusts. The low compression on this cylinder is the issue at hand.

Noticed today what might be a clue as to the problem. The header on this side has the letters OJO written right where the bum cylinder is. I've posted about it over on Steelsoldiers to see if anyone over there might have an idea what the notation might indicate.

I'm ready to pull the head, but my buddy wants to do a leak down test to try to narrow down the problem. I think no matter what, the head is probably going to have to come off. Access at this point is awesome although I do need to get it off my trailer, out of the crate, and on to an engine stand. I was hoping everything was going to go good this weekend and I could just go from the crate to the truck but it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

Below is a photo of the clue on the header.

[CedarGrove]

Somehow missed the photo upload. I'll try again later. Gotta get a couple of things done before the sun goes down.

[CedarGrove]

Some very poor video of the adventure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpvmQImAwjs

[CedarGrove]

Pulled the passenger side head today. The #6 piston seems to be just a tad too small for the cylinder. If I bring the piston up to the top and then start to bring it back down and stop, I can push on the cylinder with my hand and it will move down about 1/8th of an inch and clunk. The cylinder looked good though. Guess I need to get it out of the crate and on to a stand, drop the pan, pull #6, and examine it further. The pistons have a J stamped on them. What does this indicate?

[CedarGrove]

Been thinking more about this today. It feels like the wrist pin is wallowed out at the piston but I will have to pull it to see. What would cause the wrist pin to wallow out like that (if that is in fact what's going on in there)?

[DmaxMaverick]

Wrist pins/bushings fail. Rare, but it happens, on any engine. Could also be the con-rod bearing (wrong size) or a cracked piston/separated crown. You won't know until you get inside for a look-see. Don't uncap that rod until you identify the sloppy connection.

[CedarGrove]

A brief video of the issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2knAn9ieoRs

[CedarGrove]

Got the engine on the stand today and tore in to examine the carnage. Much worse than I had hoped as the slop was not in the wrist pin but was in the crank/con rod. The caps and crank look decent from 1 to 4 but 5 and 6 are clearly fuxored and 7 and 8 have been super hot. I believe the crank is beyond repair at #6 (that's where my 1/8th" of play was). I think I'm looking at a crank, 1 piston, a couple of rods, hone #6.

I swear I think the engine is just about new and something went flakey when it was built. Perhaps the bearing were the wrong size or something. I don't have enough experience inside one of these to do a good autopsy but I sure would like to know what happened.

How would 5-8 get oil starved while 1-4 remain cool as a cucumber?

I'm still happy with the purchase though. I could sell the Navistar cast heads for what I paid for the whole package, not to mention that I would still have the sought after Navistar cast block. I think I am going to dig in and try to get it back together. A good winter project of learning and doing.

Photos: