How will 2007 LBZ feel to me compared to my former 2002 LB7?

[LyndaSuzan]

Until recently, I had a stock 2002 crew can dually 4x4, with the LB7 Duramax engine with auto (Allison) transmission (which I had purchased new 9 long years ago). I loved that truck almost beyond reason. Not only did it have a tremendous amount of power for pulling our 6 horse trailer fully loaded, but it was ALSO very, very quick off the line (both empty and, to a lesser degree, loaded), from a dead stop. If I wanted to "tromp on it" a little bit, my 2002 was "almost" as quick as a gas engine, off the line. Although it didn't have that big "surge of power" feeling that a gas engine gives you when you floor it; the actual quickness, 0 to 60 or 70 miles per hour "in a heartbeat" speed that my diesel truck gave me was freaking amazing (for a diesel). I had never driven a diesel that came even close to its "off the line" responsiveness. I didn't feel any turbo lag; it just quietly "got on down the road" when I put the pedal to the metal. Sadly, due to some temporary financial difficulties, I had to sell my 2002 truck for some quick cash. Now I am looking for a replacement. After much research, I have decided to buy a 2006 or 2007 LBZ, since I can't afford to buy new right now, and the LBZ seems to have the least trouble, and the most power of any of the newer used Duramaxes available. *I am due to test drive a*LBZ 2007 Sierra on Saturday. Although it has taken me a long time to get to my question--here it is: *I know 2007 has more emissions*
stuff than my 2002 did. *But, I also know the 2006-2007 LBZ has quite a bit more horsepower in the stock LBZ engine than my 2002 LB7 did. *So, should the 2007 (unloaded) feel similarly quick off the line as my 2002 did? *I'm travelling quite a distance to try it, and I don't want to turn my nose up at it -- if it is not quite as quick as my 2002--if that is normal behavoir for the 2007's. *The reason I want opinions is because I tried a stock 2006 LBZ the other day and wad very disappointed. *It felt pretty doggy and non-powerful off the line. *It didn't come within a country mile of the responsiveness off the line of my 2002. I turned my nose up at the 2006; thinking the engine had been abused. *Was I right-- or will all 2006-7 LBZs feel doggy to me, compared to my pre-emissions 2002? *I've tried to compare 0-60 data; 1/4 *mile data etc. for stock LB7/LBZ trucks. *By the numbers, the two trucks ought to be very close in both quick responsiveness and power to pull a big load easily. *If that's true, then the 2006 I tried was just used up or ill-tuned or ??
*
Rather than relying on "data" about the two engines, I would love to hear real world experience from those of you who have had*experience owning / driving the STOCK 2001 or 2002 LB7, then later bought a STOCK LBZ, and ran it that way (stock)--at least for awhile. *If there are any of you out there, give me your thoughts on how the two trucks were in quickness off the line, and in pulling a load. *If you don't have heavy pulling information; that's okay, too. I'm fairly confident that the 2007 truck will be strong enough with my trailer--I would still like your opinion about off the line quickness between the two.*
When I go to test drive the 2007 on Saturday, I don't want to expect more out of it then it is going to give me; and then falsely think that the engine is bad just because it doesn't feel "quite"*as good as my beloved 2002 did. Thoughts, anyone? PS I know proper tuning is key; but assume a 2002 and 2007 are equally well tuned, for this comparison. *Thanks!!*

[Kennedy]

I find that it is quite an advancement going to the LBZ/6 speed and Bosch controller. A little tune goes a long ways.

[Enigma]

I find that it is quite an advancement going to the LBZ/6 speed and Bosch controller. A little tune goes a long ways.


Kennedy,

With regard to the 06 midyear LLY / LBZ switch. Did all 06 models (regardless of LLY or LBZ) get the 6 speed allison?

Also is the claimed HP increase true between 06 LLY and LBZ. Its quite a jump going to the LBZ?

How do the engines differ in 06 models? What improvements were made in the 06 LBZ over the 06 LLY?

[cowboywildbill]

Our 06 and 07 LBZ was a big improvement over the 02 GMC we owned.
We were running an edge box and Banks exhaust on our 02 and we towed in level 2. Big difference in pulling power with the chip.
The stock 06 and 07 LBZ wasn't as fast maybe in the 1/4 mile empty as the chipped 02 was when I ran it on level 3 or 4, but the bone stock LBZ's pulled a little better towing heavy.
Now the 2011 LML we are driving is even better, they just keep getting stronger and better.

[willydmax]

I've towed many miles with a 02 Dmax crew cab 4x4 and then also towed not so much with a 07 classic, twin to the 02. The 02 was noisier and towed like a champ but the 07 would out tow it. The big difference between the 2 was the 07 was so much quieter and smoother that it fooled you into thinking it was slower. If you are used to the LB7 the LBZ seems slower and less peppy. This was towing GCW of around 18k to 22k. Hope this helps. I would not be a bit afraid of the LBZ especially if it was the 06 and then the 07 classic.

[NutNbutGMC]

The LBZ is a good machine.

[Dmax2006]

Both motors are great.....Tune them....it will add a little zip. I tuned my 04 ran great I will be tuning my 2006 Dually soon over at JK.

[LyndaSuzan]

Thanks to everyone. Your responses, giving real life day to day experiences you have had with the two trucks were just what I had hoped for. I've run the VIN check (thanks to GMTech on this forum), and there was nothing scary or abnormal there, I have run a Carfax report (2 owners, 2 years ownership by each, with great service records showing regular maintenance by each owner); now all that's left is flying out the 250 miles for the test drive and having a local dealership do a visual inspection (did I mention that I am very mechanically challenged?). Later I would love to chip the truck, as suggested by a poster, but since Ill be spending all my pennies just to buy the truck, for now I'm just glad that the responses show I'll be pretty happy with the stock performance. My 2002 was a great truck; I am glad I won't be moving down in class with this 2007 LBZ GMC Sierra Classic 3500 crewcab dually SLT 4x4-- provided of course the truck "walks the walk" as well as the current owner "talks the talk" about it. Wish me luck. I am so excited for Saturday to get here. I have stopped shopping for trucks locally because i am so convinced this clean-history, perfectly spec'd (for my needs) 2007 Sierra Classic is the one. I haven't been truckless in decades (showing my age here), and I am definitely going through withdrawal pains. Thanks again, everyone, for your valued input.

[JohnC]

With regard to the 06 midyear LLY / LBZ switch. Did all 06 models (regardless of LLY or LBZ) get the 6 speed allison?

All the '06's are all mechanically and electrically the same. The only difference is the programming. Load 06 LBZ programming in an 06 LLY and you have an LBZ. (OK, except for the VIN...)

[Kennedy]

If you end up with a 2006 Vin 2 please repeat after me:

"My truck has the LBZ engine"


If you call your engine LLY it will hate you :eek: and worst of all you are bound to get the wrong parts as someone wil undoubtedly associate it with the 2005 LLY sooner or later. If you call it LBZ it will live happily ever ;) after and you will never get the wrong parts...

[Inspector]

As for the question "do all the models have a six speed?" The answer is no. The Medium duty 06 LLY/LBZ change over has a 5 speed. Works for me.
Denny

[Mark Rinker]

Came across this thread. Owned and towed a couple hundred thousand with '01 and '02 LB7. Owned and towed a couple hundred thousand with two '06 LBZs.

The LB7 stock does spool up or react quicker upon initial acceleration. Probably differences in turbos, or turbo + lack of restriction in stock exhaust. Could even be tuning / fuel rates, but you are correct in your assessment.

However, the towing capability and overall fit and finish of the trucks by 2006 is far superior to the 2002. 6 speed Allision, paddle shift on the steering wheel is nice, too.

Agreed they keep getting better and better, but they also keep asking for more fuel to do the same work. Get used to that. The initial LB7 offering was the easiest to tune up, and gave back the best overall fuel utilization.

$5000 question: How many miles on the injectors in the truck you are interested in? Best estimate is 150K per set. Do your offering on the truck knowing that you'll spend $5K for a new replacement set...point that out to the seller, thats probably why they are selling now vs. later...

[cowboywildbill]

Our LBZ's used a little more fuel than our 02 did, but our 02 had a Banks exhaust and an edge box on it. It did pretty well if I kept my foot out of it. The rear tires didn't last long if I didn't. "LOL"
It would flat get it empty. But our new LML is getting about the same maybe better mpg than our 02 did empty and towing and it is better than our 06 and 07 mpg's. It is amazing that more torque and HP and a lot more quiet and heavier truck get's better MPG's but it does. I guess the transmission has a lot to do with it? And you have to figure that fuel has changed in the last few years and I am pretty sure that the old sulphur fuel gave us better mpg's back then as well as not having all of the emmissions stuff that we have now.
So who knows?

[LyndaSuzan]

First, let me apologize for the huge post to follow; but I want to give all the facts to see if my planned course of action on Saturday makes common and financial sense to you Dieselpage folks. Mark Rinker gave me some very good input on his real life experiences with his 2002 LB7's and his 2006 LBZ's with 200k of use. Then he inquired about current odometer mileage on my prospective purchase, the 2007 Sierra 3500 crewcab dually SLT 4x4, cautioning me about injectors costing $5,000 to replace (gasp) which will probably be going out at around 150,000. Mark advised me to use this upcoming huge repair expense as a bargaining tool on the purchase price. Great idea, but we already set the purchase price in stone on the Sierra (I wouldn't travel the 250 miles to try the truck without first bargaining; and knowing a firm, bottom dollar price the seller would accept (providing the truck is EXACTLY what seller describes, condition and performance-wise). The current mileage on the truck is indeed the "big factor" in this hoped-for purchase. The Sierra that I am to see in Saturday has 112,000 miles on it. If we buy it, the truck would only be used to pull our trailer/ and related "go get feed/hay" type use--not to commute to work; so I think we would have two or three years of use out of this truck before we started worrying about replacing the set of injectors (knock on wood). This truck has had two owners. The first owner restored and sold classic cars, and put 90,000 miles on it in the first two years of its life (delivering the classic cars to customers). I figure anybody who restores classic cars knows how to maintain a nice Duramax, so I feel good about that, if it's true (heard this from second owner; who appears to me to be very honest and forthright; some things they said I was able to verify later via VIN check and Carfax). To continue: first owner had extended warranty and stayed on top of "standard" problems that have cropped up with the LBZ's. I know this to be true from VIN report (excerpts from the truck's VIN report is attached later in this email). The Carfax report likewise shows first owner was meticulous about maintaining / doing standard oil changes and other required maintenance on it. The second owner, who bought the Sierra at 90,000 miles, has had the truck for two years; has used it mainly to haul kids to rodeos (had others vehicles for their daily commutes) and has only put an additional 20,000 miles on it in those two years. Second owner (husband and wife) claim that they have not had so much as a check engine light in the two years they have owned the truck; and have also maintained the truck as well as the first owner--following his written guidelines to them about "when to do what" (oil changes, filters, etc. as required). The VIN check seems to back up second owner's claim of no problems; and Carfax backs up their claims of routine maintenance. According to second owner, they are selling because husband was relocated and had to take a very significant pay cut; thus they can't afford payments on this third "playtime" vehicle. (Could be true, but intend to have local dealership there check truck out to make sure nothing is getting ready to break on the truck; which could instead be the REAL driving force behind seller's desire to sell their truck.)

Here is the pertinent repair info from VIN check report:
Odometer Reading*03/07/2009 275842 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction K9530 - Transmission Fluid Cooler Lower Pipe Assembly Replace 81,016 MI*04/05/2008 260907 ZSCT----Service Contracts E7700 - Shaft, Steering Intermediate - Replace 39,888 MI*04/05/2008 260907 ZSCT----Service Contracts K5393 - Lines And/Or Fittings, Transmission Oil Cooler - Lower or Right - At Radiator - Repair Or Replace 39,888 MI*11/10/2007 254463 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J6270 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve Replacement 27,010 MI*01/10/2007 A83153 ZPDI----Pre-Delivery Inspection Z7000
*******
Now we get to pricing of the truck: Besides having the SLT (leather, etc.) package, this Sierra has the following aftermarket items: spray on bed liner, custom heavy duty Ranch Hand bumpers front and rear (seen pics; really nice looking ones!) including added support for the bumpers; aluminum diamond plate truck box; towing package; trailer brake controller; headache rack with backing lights, brake lights and turn signals; B&W GN turnover ball hitch.

PRICING: The purchase price on this Sierra is $26,750. It has no dents or dings and is not supposed to have ever been wrecked; the only body-type damage is a cracked windshield.

I sold my previous similarly configured truck, (2002 Chevy 3500 crewcab dually LT3 4x4) which had 65,000 miles on it for $18,000; so, it is costing me an additional $8750 to buy this five years' newer 2007 truck (which has almost 50,000 more miles on the odometer than my 2002 did). For the 2007 Sierra I am now hoping to purchase, Kelly BB and Edmunds show that the private purchase price should actually be between $2500 to $4000 higher than the $26,750 I have agreed to pay; IF the car is in stated condition. Pricing via Kelly BB and Edmunds TMV was calculated using second TIER "clean condition" / not the top "excellent" condition. From pics, I believe this truck would qualify for "excellent" tier of conditioning; except for cracked windshield. It looks brand new in the pics; but it could be a different story in person; I'll see on Saturday.*

When I first started looking for my "replacement" truck, I was convinced that in this horribly fragile economy, I could find a "somewhat high mileage" 2006 or 2007 LBZ for CONSIDERABLY less money than $26750. However, I have been looking for several weeks via Craigslist, AutoTrader, Edmunds, and via local dealers where I've previously bought new trucks--and the LBZ's, configured like I need (3500 crewcab dually SLT or LT3 4x4), are very scarce; and if they have low mileage, the price really really starts to go up.

So, I welcome posters' opinions--good deal or no? If you say "no"; then please point me to those great trucks around the Dallas/ Fort Worth Texas area where I can get the better deal. I'm leaving Saturday morning, to look at and hopefully purchase the Sierra, so your window of opportunity to talk me out of this deal is short. Thanks for everyone's patience about this run-on post (so much information, so little time!), and I welcome your input--good or bad planned purchase? Vote now.

[cowboywildbill]

Mark has a lot of miles and experiences with these trucks and is pretty good at knowing all of the $$ issues per mile type things. Sounds like a fair deal to me. The bumpers and hitch and liner probably runs about $2,000 or more to have installed and you can just back up to it and tow and that is a big plus.
Not that I would worry too much about it, but if it does need injectors at some point they should be cheaper labor wise to have done because the LBZ doesn't have all of the under the valve cover plumbing and return lines that the earlier engines did. So I'm guessing that should be less to have done than say an 02 would.
One of the Techs on the forum should be able to chime in on the cost $ of that.
While we were at the All American Quarter Horse Congress last October in Columbus, OH We traded our 07 classic 3500 C/C in on a 3500 LML 2011truck. We got $34,900 for our 07 it had 19,000 miles on it and loaded.It was sold within an hour of it moving to the dealers lot So your deal sounds pretty good. I still hear of people looking for 06 and 07 LBZ's and are having a hard time finding them. Good luck with everything hope it is as good as it sounds. Let us know how it turns out.

[Mark Rinker]

Sounds like a reasonable deal to me. Not impossible to duplicate, but there is alot to say about buying a truck already set up for towing and working. There is alot of $$$ in all the accessories, oddly I run these trucks pretty stock, and trade often.

[LyndaSuzan]

I've still been surfing, and found a 2006 with only 65,000 miles, as opposed to 2007 with 112,000. Could somebody run a VIN check on 1GCJK33D46F163450? Opinions as to 2007 with 112,000 over 2006 with 65,000? Same price, about same options except 2006 doesn't have RanchHand bumpers or GN hitch but does have a DVD player. One thing that worries me. One owner of 2006 LBZ traded it in for a 2011 Ford !! Usually you don't switch brands if you are happy with a vehcile. Sorry I'm bugging everybody so much. Just want to make the BEST decision. I am due to fly out in the AM on the 2007. EEK. Thanks in advance.

[LyndaSuzan]

Yesterday, my husband got the news they were changing his work hours, which means we can no longer carpool. This means that the truck we buy will be used for his commute of approx 80 miles a day. In light of this new development, it doesn't make sense to buy a truck with 115k already on it. (Mark Rinker's advice that on average, we can expect to replace injectors at around 150,000 miles, at an estimated cost of $5000, really tormented me and drove my decision to give this truck a pass-- since my husband's "new" solo commute will start racking up those miles. When we first considered this truck, we planned to use it only for hauling our horses and related stuff, so the 115,000 miles didn't scare me, since we would have been adding miles at a much slower rate than is now the anticipated new scenario.

I explain all this so everyone who gave such great advice won't think I'm just a window shopper who is wasting their time with my silly questions.

So, the hunt continues, but for 3500 LBZ 4x4 crewcabs with lower mileage. Thanks again. Your advice hasn't been in vain. I will use it in my continued quest.

[Yukon6.2]

Hi
I would buy a cheep little beater for commute.Let it rack up the miles and wear from having bad weather.Save the truck for work.Trucks are made to work not haul one person to work,a real waste of money and a truck to log 80 miles a day empty.You will save a ton of money with the commuter using it as that,no worries about wasting the milage on those expensive injectors.You could buy 2 commuter cars for the price of one injector job.I could buy 10 cars for the price of am injector job,they may need a little work,but all our daily drivers are purcased at around that price,just picked up an 03 sierra for less than that.
Just the savings in fuel will pay for the beater.
My .02
good luck in your search
Thomas

[cabletech]

I would get a cheap, reliable car to drive to work. I have a 2000 Saab 9-3 that I drive to work. I do drive my truck once a week in the summer and when it snows in the winter. I think leaving a truck sit is worse than driving it from time to time.
I do like my 2006 LBZ. It does a great job of pulling our trailer. The only problems I have had is transmission cooler lines leaking and the TCM died last fall. I have also replaced all 4 brake rotors due to rust on the back side. Since you are not in a salt belt, this shouldn't be a problem.

Jay

[DmaxMaverick]

........ we can expect to replace injectors at around 150,000 miles, at an estimated cost of $5000.........


I recommend disregarding this as a deciding factor. What is "typical" is significantly greater miles and less money for replacement ($3,000 is more on par). While some specific use and/or conditions may cause an earlier replacement, or more expensive repair bill, this is an exception, not the rule. What I've seen on the 2006+ injector life is in excess of 200K miles, with many of them exceeding 250K (I don't know of any with more than that, but I suspect we'll hear about them as time goes on). There are too many factors to consider, such as fuel quality, driving habits and type of use. Mark's experiences are certainly a bench mark for "extreme" use, but the unit samples are too few and conditions too specific to form a general trend. I know of several Hot Shots who are well past 200K miles on their 2006 trucks with original injectors, and NO issues at all. A personal/commute truck will certainly see much less fuel/mile going through the engine, which will typically extend injector life, compared to one who is almost always loaded to GVWR (or try to be) in a commercial environment.

[LyndaSuzan]

Cabletech and Yukon6 both had almost identical posts recommending that we should buy a "beater" for my husband's commute, and save the wear and tear on the Duramax. It is indeed a case of "great minds thinking alike", because this is precisely the conversation my husband and I had earlier today. *Before my husband was laid off a few months back, we HAD two commuter cars plus our 2002 truck-- but besides having to sell our beloved truck, we had to sell one of those commuter vehicles to contribute to the purchase price for the replacement truck we are feverishly searching for. Eventually, when we can afford it again, we will add that third vehicle back to the mix-- but I just need to buy a truck now with a "comfortable" amount of miles on it (where I won't stress about looming high mileage repairs), so my husband can commute in the truck UNTIL we can gather more money for a "new" beater vehicle. *We've taken quite a financial beating lately, so that third car will take some time. *Thanks again for the suggestion.

[LyndaSuzan]

MaxMaverick! *I am so relieved to know there are others who maybe don't use their Duramaxes so "extremely, and therefore get more miles out of their trucks before needing expensive injector replacement. Further, I was happy to hear another, significantly lower price point for the repair cost; that it could be as "little" as $3500 instead of another poster's projected $5000 cost. I guess it depends a lot on your relationship with your repair dealership. As far as your comment that I shouldn't pass on the nice GMC truck with 115k miles just because of fears over looming repair costs--that ship has definitely sailed!! The seller was not happy with me when I canceled my planned trip today to look at it at the last minute. But, all is well that ends well, because I currently am sitting at a Chevy dealership waiting for them to do an extensive "used car inspection" of a 2006 crewcab dually 3500 LBZ DURAMAX, with Lt3 options, upgraded wheels and rims, and aftermarket DVD player, with only 65,000 miles on it (with only one previous owner) that I found at a local Ford dealership. (I've been posting in a separate thread about the 2006 truck.) Thanks so much for sharing your personal experience and opinions on the projected injector replacement on the LBZ 2006-2007 Duramax trucks. It makes me feel a lot "safer" about buying a used Duramax instead of a new one. A new truck is completely out of reach, financially, for me right now, so everyone's assistance on issues relating to used Duramaxes is very, very helpful.

[Mark Rinker]

Hope I didn't steer you in the wrong direction - but I also hope you never see a set of injectors needing replaced. :)

Dmaxmaverick is correct that my usage results in many, many more gallons of fuel passing through the injectors - when compared to a mixed use, 'average' vehicle. The LBZ is certainly doing well in the injector life department, when compared to the LB7 family. Most on this board would agree that 200-250K on a set of injectors is the upper end, statistically and regardless of how the truck was used.

What Dmax didn't factor in: How was the 115K mile truck used in its prior life? Answer: NOBODY knows. i.e. if there was a digital readout on the DIC for "% INJECTOR LIFE REMAINING" - would it read 30%, 50% or 75% ??? My observation also is that the truck was set up for towing and saw nearly 30K per miles per year...probably was being used just as it appears - to tow something fairly consistantly, and would have averaged miles/gallon usage in the 12-14 range, just a notch better than my 10-12 averages. Statistically, you are still looking at a $4000-$5000 repair bill for injector replacement, sometime in the next 60 - 80K miles.

That being said, I still think you are onto a MUCH better deal with the '06 and significantly lower miles. You even have a year or two of factory warranty left, in case you encountered any engine or drivetrain related problems from the previous owner's use. Lower miles mean less concern over how the truck was used, and statistically a greater chance of experiencing 120 - 160k additional miles of service life left in the injectors. Do the math - as I know you are!

Good luck! I believe you are on the right path with the '06 purchase. Read here in the Duramax forums...you'll find that I have never paid out of pocket for a set of injectors to be replaced in over 600K Duramax miles... ;)

IDEA: Wouldn't it be helpful, in addition to vehicle mileage and engine hours, to have a "TOTAL GALLONS OF FUEL CONSUMED" readoout? My bet is we would see a direct correlation to injector life - at ~12K gallons of fuel, regardless of engine hours and odometer miles...using that math...how many miles additional would you get on your trucks???

[LyndaSuzan]

Hope I didn't steer you in the wrong direction - but I also hope you never see a set of injectors needing replaced. :)
...
That being said, I still think you are onto a MUCH better deal with the '06 and significantly lower miles. You even have a year or two of factory warranty left, in case you encountered any engine or drivetrain related problems from the previous owner's use. Lower miles mean less concern over how the truck was used, and statistically a greater chance of experiencing - 160k additional miles of service life left in the injectors. Do the math - as I know you are!
IDEA: Wouldn't it be helpful, in addition to vehicle mileage and engine hours, to have a "TOTAL GALLONS OF FUEL CONSUMED" readout? My bet is we would see a direct correlation to injector life - at ~12K gallons of fuel, regardless of engine hours and odometer miles...using that math...how many miles additional would you get on your trucks???

Mark:
You absolutely didn't steer me wrong. Instead, you did me an immense favor, forcing me to think clearly about possible repairs ahead, in the not-too-distant future with respect to a truck with higher miles, especially because of the unknown factor of possibly very hard use in its past. Your words of caution about factoring in future repairs was JUST what I needed to hear. I already knew that injectors were a problem with the LB7's (that is what our 2002 truck was); but I wasnt aware injectors would eventually have to be replaced (though not as early and not nearly as often) on the LBZ's as well. So, your post was a real wakeup call. The purchase price of the trucks we've been considering wouldn't leave any nest egg saved back for repairs. And the trucks we could afford, in order to keep back a nest egg for repairs, are too beat up to even consider. You stopped me from just focusing on the fact that I found a 2007 I could afford, and that it had the perfect setup for pulling our 6-horse;*and okay, I admit it, the overall "pretty-ness" of the truck had swayed me too and clouded my thinking somewhat (great ranch bumpers, front and back, and great headache rack).

Anyway, we did indeed buy (from the Ford dealership) the Chevy Silverado Duramax 3500 LT3 dually 4x4 truck with only 64,500 miles on it. I can't thank you enough for your input. Although others have posted that lots of LBZ's go a whole lot further than your projected 150k before replacement injectors are necessary-- we really needed to focus more toward the "worst case scenario" end of the spectrum, due to our recent luck (not!!) with finances (including my husband's layoff a few months ago; then his eventual acceptance of a new job for less pay; and to top it off, my loss of OT at my work). I just don't think it would be especially bright to roll the dice and buy a higher mileage truck.

After the 2006 truck passed the inspection, with flying colors, at the impartial Chevy dealership, I felt like it was a "no brainer" to purchase it. Since this truck has only has a tongue pull hitch, I believe this tends to indicate that there were no maxed out weight loads being regularly pulled with the truck. Plus, it was a local (Dallas/Fort WorthTexas area; aka the flatlands) owner who owned the truck for all four years of its life. This made me fairly confident, partially because of the truck's low mileage for it's age, that the original owner hadnt been running the truck up and down mountains with a heavily-loaded tongue pull trailer. Of course that doesn't guarantee the owner didn't drag race with the truck every single weekend. Only time will tell, I guess, as to whether this truck is as "cherry" as I now hope and believe.

Thanks again, Mark. I absolutely believe you did me a solid and steered me in the right direction.

PS: my new (to me) 2006 truck does show total gallons of gas used. Mine shows 4690 gallons lifetime; which translates to 13.85 mpg average. That seems to indicate to me a lot of city driving; although I would be estactic if that was highway miles pulling a tongue pull trailer. That wouldnt be too shabby at all, for pulling a trailer. I know the MPG average isn't based on empty highway miles (that low MPG would be tragic), because just in the short drive home (40 miles) from the dealership, the MPG average indicator jumped from 13.5 to 15.1. (I know you can't totally rely on truck's MPG display (accuracy can only be obtained via hand calculation), but still--it is an "indicator" of what real MPG might be.)

[chambie]

Congrats on your purchase !!!! I think you'll be impressed with it when you hook to your trailer. I have a 07 3500 and i pull a 35' 3 horse LQ trailer, and you hardly know it's there. Mileage is decent running the ridges here in PA & NY. When we head to Ohio where it's a lil flatter we'll get around 11 - 13 loaded

[Mark Rinker]

Good luck with your 'new' truck. Shoot a couple pictures and post !!!

[LyndaSuzan]

... I have a 07 3500 and i pull a 35' 3 horse LQ trailer, and you hardly know it's there. Mileage is decent running the ridges here in PA & NY. When we head to Ohio where it's a lil flatter we'll get around 11 - 13 loaded.
Chambie,
Thanks for the kind words. It is definitely good news to hear about the MPG and power of your 2007 while pulling your living quarters trailer. Even though I was very satisfied with the pulling power of my 2002, your experience with your 2007 matches what I have heard from other posters, that the 2006-2007 LBZ's are even stronger. Can't wait to get a GN hitch and brake controller installed, so I can see for myself!! I am really glad the search is over, and that I didn't end up settling for a truck I wasn't 100% happy about (either because of it's age, condition, or options set), simply because a lesser truck was all I could afford. As it turned out, although I spent absolutely every bit of cash I could gather (including this month's grocery money!!) in order to make an all cash purchase because I don't dare take on a truck payment loan in this economy, I am nevertheless very happy with the truck we ended up with. Thanks again for your input. It made me happy to hear from you, another LBZ owner who has realtime experience pulling a big honking trailer, and that you are very satisfied with your truck's performance.

[LyndaSuzan]

Good luck with your 'new' truck. Shoot a couple pictures and post !!!

Mark, I am naming you Godfather to my new "baby"--you were that instrumental in making me realize this truck was a smarter purchase.

As for pictures, I'm going to wait til I get the camper mirrors installed next week at the dealership before I post any pictures. The teensy OEM mirrors on it now make it look like a city slicker's truck!! (No offense meant to city slickers; I just need our truck to look like the mean lean cowboy machine it was born and breed to be.)

[LyndaSuzan]

Here are some pics. I post them mainly to prove I wasn't wasting everyone's time with all my endless questions and my several VIN check requests, when I was trying to decide on what truck to buy. The pics are proof that I really DID end up buying a truck. Everyone's input was invaluable, and I want to thank all you guys (again) for your help.

My (new to me) truck is really nothing special, compared to some of your tricked out trucks on this forum, so don't worry about trying to compliment me on it -- it's pretty plain jane!! However, it definitely serves our main purpose for it (pulling our 6-horse slant aluminum trailer), and we're happy with our purchase, and the price we paid for it, and its low mileage (still in the 65K range). Our next purchase for it will be to get the MaxBrake controller I've read in various posts on this forum. I'm pretty excited about that purchase (as soon as we can afford it). That has been a huge complaint for me, all these years -- the constant adjustment required on trailer brakes to keep it from either throwing you through the windshield or not really having any braking action at all. It will be nice to have a controller that works like it is supposed to.

[Mark Rinker]

Are those blue oval f-f-FORD emblems on the mudflaps????? ;)

Very sharp looking truck. When it comes to black, less is more. Looks like a Stealth Bomber!

[LyndaSuzan]

Are those blue oval f-f-FORD emblems on the mudflaps?!

I know--isn't that embarrassing? I'd replace them if I didn't have so many other more pressing ways I want to spend money on that truck. I figure I'll tear 'em off eventually backing onto a curb or something. Til then, I'll just have to grin and bear it. Good eye, by the way. Nothing gets past you!!

[JohnC]

Yeah, if the truck starts to act out you may want to take them off sooner... ;)

[LyndaSuzan]

Yeah, if the truck starts to act out you may want to take them off sooner... ;)

Too true. Replacing the mud flaps would definitely be cheaper than therapy to cure my truck's self esteem issues.

[chambie]

Hey there ... nice looking truck !! You and the horses are gonna love it !! Good luck with it !! :cool:

[Enigma]

Good looking truck. Looks like you got some high buck wheels in the deal too. They look like Alcoa's

[LyndaSuzan]

Good looking truck. Looks like you got some high buck wheels in the deal too. They look like Alcoa's

Very good eye! The rims are indeed Alcoa's. Just out of curiosity, approximately what do Alcoa rims like mine cost, if bought new?

I think "cool" rims are kind of a "guy" thing. I like that they are "shiny," but I personally would have *spent that "rim" money toward a Ranch Hand front replacement bumper. That's one of the big ticket items on my "eventually" list -either a Ranch Hand or one of the other premier replacement bumper brands. I've been keeping my eye on craigslist for a good deal on a used one, but no luck so far.

Finally, I'm trying to determine the factory installed (stock) tire size for my 2006 crew cab dually 4x4. I want to know if my speedometer is reading true, and whether mpg's can be computed accurately, both of which would only be possible if I am running factory size tires (unless, of course, the onboard computer was adjusted for a different tire size). For some reason, the information sticker on the driver's door is peeled off; so I can't check it for the stock tire size. I also looked in the owner's manual, but I can't find the answer there either. My current tires are 245/75 R16. Could someone verify whether this is the stock tire size for my specific truck? From my research online, it looks like 265/75 R16 might instead be the correct tire size.*

Also from my research (gotta love the Internet), it appears that the only significant difference between the two tire sizes (245/75 and 265/75) is that the 265 is about an inch taller. Am I correct?

If 265's are the correct stock size, would the reason for someone replacing the original 265's with 245's be because the 245's are significantly cheaper? Or is there another reason to move down in tire size which I haven't figured out yet?

Thanks, as always, for everyone's advice and input.

[DmaxMaverick]

If you have 245/75/16 on now, you are at (or very near) the OEM size. The Dually size was originally 215/85/16. The diameters are close enough to not mess with the computer.

The 245's won't fit on the OEM wheels, as is. They are too wide, and will rub when loaded without spacers. The Alcoa wheels you have must be a deeper offset or have spacers, or you'd have the same problem. Load it up, and measure the gap between the sidewalls at the bottom (where they'll bulge when loaded), 1" minimum at full load/pressure. Keep your pressure up, or you could have a serious problem. Rubbing duals overheat and blow.

245/75/16 tires are OEM for 2500HD trucks. All the "talk" about the 265's is unique to the 2500HD and 3500SRW trucks. Using 265's on a dually would be disastrous, even with spacers when loaded anywhere near GVWR. They are about 1.5" taller than OEM, except the 3500SRW, which is OEM with them.

[LyndaSuzan]

...If you have 245/75/16 on now, you are at (or very near) the OEM size. ...Load it up, and measure the gap between the sidewalls at the bottom (where they'll bulge when loaded), 1" minimum at full load/pressure. Keep your pressure up, or you could have a serious problem. Rubbing duals overheat and blow.

Thanks for straightening me out. No wonder I was confused, what with the different specs for 2500 / 3500 / SRW and DRW. You were very succinct and clear in your explanation--especially the part about how to check my back dually tires for sufficient space between the tires so that no rubbing / blowouts will happen.

I love this forum; not only for the great information I always get; but also because so many posters on TheDieselPage have a really great sense of humor. Also, everyone is so patient about not quite on topic posts. I realize I have wandered far, far away from my original thread topic that I'm no longer even posting in the correct sub-forum right now, and for that I do humbly apologize. Any more off topic posts by me will go in a new thread, I swear!

[Yukon6.2]

Hi
Funny you ask about alcoa's.I was asking at a Kal Tire about the prise of them.I was told $1600 each,so you have 4 thats $6400 bonas dollars,in Canada but we allways get charged more for stuff up here.
Alco's are warenteed for life,no matter who bought them.
Nice score
Thomas

[DmaxMaverick]

New Alcoa LT series wheels will run you about $200-400 each (MSRP, but you can usually find them for less), depending on rating, size and style. Similar to the pricing of Centerline XD series, which are of similar quality and rating. $1,600 for a set of 4 Alcoas would be the high end of MSRP. Alcoa makes wheels that can cost $1,600 each (and more), but they won't fit on your truck. You could put one in the bed, though.

[DmaxMaverick]

Thanks for straightening me out. No wonder I was confused, what with the different specs for 2500 / 3500 / SRW and DRW. You were very succinct and clear in your explanation--especially the part about how to check my back dually tires for sufficient space between the tires so that no rubbing / blowouts will happen.

I love this forum; not only for the great information I always get; but also because so many posters on TheDieselPage have a really great sense of humor. Also, everyone is so patient about not quite on topic posts. I realize I have wandered far, far away from my original thread topic that I'm no longer even posting in the correct sub-forum right now, and for that I do humbly apologize. Any more off topic posts by me will go in a new thread, I swear!

It's your thread. Take in any direction you please. You can't hijack your own thread. It's all good.

[crashz]

Very nice truck Lynda!

You can remove the painted logos from the rear mud flaps with a rag and some acetone or nail polish remover. Just be careful not to spill it on anything else, as it damages rubber,plastic and obviously paint. It will remove any coating on the metal part of the flap too, so be sure to wipe it clean, and I would put some carnuba wax on the metal portion to keep it from corroding.

[LyndaSuzan]

Thanks to both DMax Maverick and Yukon 6.1 for the info on my Alcoa rims. Even $1600 for the set is a nice surprise!!*

And, Yukon 6.2--yikes-$6400 !! You should go slap that kid who didn't understand how to read a pricing chart!!

Knowing the cost of the Alcoa rims, I now understand a "double-take" reaction by my salesman at the dealership. We had already done all our bargaining, agreed on a definite purchase price, and I had already signed the paperwork, when the salesman did a "double-take" when he came to get my truck for detailing, prior to its delivery to me. He then made the comment, "I didn't realize it had upgraded rims; that's not on the paperwork for this truck."

Taking these fairly expensive rims into consideration, I feel even better about the price I ultimately paid for my truck.

[LyndaSuzan]

Very nice truck Lynda!

You can remove the painted logos from the rear mud flaps with a rag and some acetone or nail polish remover. Just be careful not to spill it on anything else, as it damages rubber,plastic and obviously paint. It will remove any coating on the metal part of the flap too, so be sure to wipe it clean, and I would put some carnuba wax on the metal portion to keep it from corroding.

I am so going to do that this weekend! Thanks for the advice. it has been bugging me more than a little. I'll post new pics after my fix. You're the man!