Cold Weather and Limp Mode

[MikeyB]

The weather here in Colorado has been extremely cold the last few days and has created some problems with my '01 2500 HD. I drove it to work and could not get the rpms to go over 2000. The max speed I could achieve was 45 mph. The truck quit a few times along the way but always restarted.

I always run good fuel, change filters, and use a fuel supplement. After topping off the tank today the truck ran much better. When I got home I pulled the codes and had P0093 and P0087. I have never used the heater but I guess I will have to start!

I called the dealer and they said it was "reduced power mode" but that seems to be a different scenario since it did not come on the message center as explained in the diesel supplement.

Anyone know the difference between limp mode and reduced power mode?

Thanks,
Mike

[DmaxMaverick]

Sounds like your fuel was gelling. Be sure to use enough winter additive (anti-gel). Not all additives work in winter, and if it doesn't specifically state it on the label, and you use a high enough concentration, the fuel will begin to cloud and gel below freezing temps. I use Power Service (white bottle) for freezing temps, and it works very well. We don't have "winterized" Diesel, or #1 Diesel, so I have to treat the fuel if there's any chance of cold temps. I'm in California, and not in an area that treats fuel in any way (straight #2). I have to be careful when I travel into cold country.

An engine block heater won't help with cold fuel. Even with the engine near operating temp, the fuel will still freeze. If your engine started fine, there's no need for the heater, except for convenience (it's nice to have instant cab heat). If the temp drops below zero for a while (GM's recommendation), it will help, though.

[DmaxMaverick]

Also..... "Limp Mode" is "Reduced Power Mode". One in the same. There can be some differences with how it "limps", but that depends on the cause.

[MikeyB]

Sounds like your fuel was gelling. Be sure to use enough winter additive (anti-gel). Not all additives work in winter, and if it doesn't specifically state it on the label, and you use a high enough concentration, the fuel will begin to cloud and gel below freezing temps. I use Power Service (white bottle) for freezing temps, and it works very well. We don't have "winterized" Diesel, or #1 Diesel, so I have to treat the fuel if there's any chance of cold temps. I'm in California, and not in an area that treats fuel in any way (straight #2). I have to be careful when I travel into cold country.

An engine block heater won't help with cold fuel. Even with the engine near operating temp, the fuel will still freeze. If your engine started fine, there's no need for the heater, except for convenience (it's nice to have instant cab heat). If the temp drops below zero for a while (GM's recommendation), it will help, though.

Thanks Dmax. I use the white bottle PS as well and was surprised that the fuel gelled. I thought that I had a good concentration of PS but maybe not. Does the Dmax have a fuel heater? They are standard issue on aircraft burning Jet A but maybe not on earthbound vehicles.

Thanks,
Mike

[DmaxMaverick]

The filter has a heater. That's the single wire coming out of the top of the filter assy. It should have power to it any time the ignition is on (the thermostat is internal). You can check heater element resistance when it's cold enough (remove the lead and read the stud with ground, below about 40°, IIRC). If you try checking when it's warm, the circuit will be open.

Maybe up your dose a bit. The label has concentration recommendations according to the actual temp. Always assume it will get colder than what you think, and dump in a little more, just because. That's what I do, and have never been caught in the cold when using it. I don't use it often, so I'm a little more generous with it. If you use it seasonally, you should be a bit more accurate with the mixture, from a cost perspective. Also, it seems ULSD is more prone to gelling, compared to previous fuels.

[MikeyB]

The filter has a heater. That's the single wire coming out of the top of the filter assy. It should have power to it any time the ignition is on (the thermostat is internal). You can check heater element resistance when it's cold enough (remove the lead and read the stud with ground, below about 40°, IIRC). If you try checking when it's warm, the circuit will be open.

Maybe up your dose a bit. The label has concentration recommendations according to the actual temp. Always assume it will get colder than what you think, and dump in a little more, just because. That's what I do, and have never been caught in the cold when using it. I don't use it often, so I'm a little more generous with it. If you use it seasonally, you should be a bit more accurate with the mixture, from a cost perspective. Also, it seems ULSD is more prone to gelling, compared to previous fuels.

Thanks, I'll see how it goes this morning. Hi of 32f later today so that should help.

Mike

[Kennedy]

A quality additive will go a long way. Power Service is not what I consider a quality additive. I just converted a OTR trucker to FPPF Total Power. In the past he always ran PS and each year when it got cold he ended up paying to get unthawed. This year no problems whatsoever and started better than usual by just the block heater and no proheater which he usually needs.

[MikeyB]

A quality additive will go a long way. Power Service is not what I consider a quality additive. I just converted a OTR trucker to FPPF Total Power. In the past he always ran PS and each year when it got cold he ended up paying to get unthawed. This year no problems whatsoever and started better than usual by just the block heater and no proheater which he usually needs.

I have had trouble finding FPPF. Do most auto parts stores sell it? I wouldn't mind switching if it was better if I could find it....

Mike

[DADGLW]

i have always used PS in all my trucks,and all woods equipment. i start using it as soon as its starts to get cold and never had a problem..............

[DmaxMaverick]

Fuel additives are a lot like engine oils. Most/all of the name brands are as good as any other, and they all do what they advertise to do. Yet somehow, according to the individual, the brand they use is better than all the rest (I'm guilty). Same with trucks, TV's, tires, restaurants, etc. Individual testimonials are great, but hardly paint a complete picture. All brands have them, and they all say what the manufacturer/seller wants them to say, and you'll never see them provide the ones that don't praise their product. I've heard "bad things" about every brand ever produced, of any product. None of this is to say someone can't/didn't have a bad experience with a product. It happens.

If you are using a fuel additive that's supposed to do what you need it to do, and it doesn't, something wasn't done right. One example is, someone "tops off" a tank they feel has enough additive for the additional fuel, then has freezing issues. Either "overdose", every time, or calculate it. Don't assume the stuff already in the tank for a while will mix/help with fresh fuel.

[Mark Rinker]

It would be a good time to change your fuel filter as well. The filter media traps water, and cold temps cause the water to freeze and filter to become restricted.

Your P00087 code indicates that restriction. However, the LB7s I had didn't limp when presented with filter restriction, they just fell on their face for lack of fuel rail pressure. The drivability is similar.

Treat fuel
Change filter
Park inside, use block heater, etc.
Don't sit and idle excessively at cold startup. Get underway after a minute or so, use a lower gear initially to start making underhood heat.We had lots of issues the year after MN mandated 3% biodiesel blending. It was apparent alot of water was coming along for the ride. Last two or three years have been troublefree, and we see lots of -15 mornings up here.

Good luck!

[Kennedy]

I have had trouble finding FPPF. Do most auto parts stores sell it? I wouldn't mind switching if it was better if I could find it....

Mike


MikeyB,

FPPF can be tough to find because it's not cheap. The trucker that I mentioned said that he did see some on the road once. We've since set him up with 5 gallon pails as these guys burn 30,000 gallons or more in a year.

[Kennedy]

Power service makes fuel conditioner and is a big name and used by a lot of people.

Fram makes oil filters and is a big name and used by a lot of people.

This must mean they are good?

[DmaxMaverick]

Power service makes fuel conditioner and is a big name and used by a lot of people.

Fram makes oil filters and is a big name and used by a lot of people.

This must mean they are good?

Not necessarily. It doesn't mean PS is a bad product, either. I don't care about the quality of any Fram product, then, now, or later. They won't get any of my money, or my endorsement. Ever.

Before I posted my previous comment, I did some extensive research on the products in question. The active ingredients (required to provide the claims made by them) are the same in both. Therefore, the only difference between them may be the concentration of each component after dosing. This was also the true for all other popular name brand additives making the same claims.

FPPF may be a superior product. If so, show me how. If it is, I'll switch.

[Kennedy]

Not necessarily. It doesn't mean PS is a bad product, either. I don't care about the quality of any Fram product, then, now, or later. They won't get any of my money, or my endorsement. Ever.

Same with me and Power Service. It is bottom of the barrel rot gut cheap crap and just about anybody in the diesel business especially fuel shops will agree. This sentiment is about as universal as is with Fram oil filters.



Before I posted my previous comment, I did some extensive research on the products in question. The active ingredients (required to provide the claims made by them) are the same in both. Therefore, the only difference between them may be the concentration of each component after dosing. This was also the true for all other popular name brand additives making the same claims.

FPPF may be a superior product. If so, show me how. If it is, I'll switch.

If that were the case then when you add water to PS it would not make fish eggs like it does. Real world experience tells me that FPPF is the superior product. I have never had a customer call me gelling up with FPPF in the tank, but when I do get calls from those gelling most are running PS.


And no I do not sell enough additive in a year to have a serious impact on my bottom line. We sell case lots only and I'm sure we could sell much more if we did individual bottles, but would also lose many shipments due to damaged/leaking bottles.

[DADGLW]

i must be using real good fuel.been using PS for years with no problem.and I got 3 trucks and 5 pieces of equipment that run 6 days a week in some real cold weather.........each to there own...........

[Freightliner3]

I've had a lot of problems with Bio Diesel in the winter here in Minnesota.2% winter and 5% summer.Fuel conditioners don't seem work with Soybeen oil.
Last trip to The Lake Of The Woods we saw two day's of -35F.I wised up and installed a 52Gal.Titan fuel tank.Now I leave home with enough fuel to
get to Northome Mn. Then I fill up with #1 fuel. Bingo! no fuel problems any more.
In the old days we would run the cranes all night so we could work in the morning. Now we just go home because OSHA say's is too cold to work.

[Kennedy]

Source fuel is probably the #1 factor. You SHOULD be able to buy fuel in your region blended for the current climate conditions in your region and never have to add anything, BUT it doesn't always work that way.

I have my own 575 gallon tank and buy only Amoco Premier from my local vendor. When I can get it I buy #2 NON winterized. I add my FPPF prior to filling the tank and am set until I need to refill.

I should also add that my tank has a dessicant breather/filter on the air side and dual filters on the supply line. This has made fuel issues and filter loading a non issue for me. I've been running past 20k on my on truck filters with little to no sign of restriction gain.

If I can't convince you to use FPPF at least use Stanadyne or something decent...

[Mark Rinker]

John - possibly what is missing from your commentary is this: what separates the 'good' additives from the 'bad' additives. There must be some school of thought re chemical composition that you can pass along.

The comparisons of Power Service to cheap whiskey is where I get lost. If there is something chemically incorrected with PS, tell me what it is, and what Standyne and FPPF formulas have in common.

Thanks.

[Kennedy]

Maybe this will help:

http://www.fppf.com/productdemonstrations.asp


I have the "mad scientist" test kit to do the demos and have seen it in person. I also have the shaker bottles showing the different additives in the presence of fuel and water.


I had a hard time convincing the trucker I mentioned earlier in fact I couldn't. He's Carol's (mother in law) Bo and it turned out it took her buying him a case as a gift to get him started. He had a hard time understanding the notion that he could use less product, and it cost less, but hey it was free and he had to use it or end up in the doghouse. A 32 oz bottle of Total Power will treat 250 gallons where PS treats 100 gallons and this was hard for him to believe. The cost per bottle is close to 2:1 so the gap tightens, but still leans towards FPPF. So far he has had zero fuel related issues where previously he had filter issues, starting issues, etc.

P.S. I shuddered when I heard about the concept of poking holes in the fuel filter media :rolleyes: to make a big rig go, but from what I gather it happens out there...