ATTN: Suburban Owners, Pinnacle Exhaust is OK, hard to install.

[john8662]

I know many of you have either upgraded your exhaust systems on your 6.5TD powered suburbans for obvious reasons. Mainly because the factory systems are highly restricted and we all want More power. Well, I went down the road of wanting a better exhaust, before more mods. I have done ALL the cooling mods except an intercooler, and now I want more performance, as I can see on my gauges that I need less exhaust temps while towing.

So, I elected to find an exhaust system. As many of us, when selecting an exhaust system, we find who makes the systems, and if they apply to Suburbans. There are a few makers of exhaust kits, Kennedy, Heath Diesel, BD, Pinnacle/Jardine, all have a package that works on Suburbans. I also considered something else when selecting an exhaust system, price. I'll admit it, I am a cheap ass sometimes, but when it comes to diesel performance, its not the time to be cheap, because if you are you're gonna get burned. Speaking of getting burned, here is my experience so you don't make the same mistake.

So, I elected to buy the Pinnacle System. I had found this sytem on ebay (where you find new deals), I notice that there was a complete mandrel bend system available on ebay with a "buy it now" for $320 plus shipping. Also a statement on the auction that says "We have the Suburban" WOW! That sounds great, even though the item in the pictures on the auction was for a Dmax, first clue of something bad. I knew that the Kennedy system was 450 plus shipping, so I elected to go with the Pinnacle, so I could have my cake and eat it too.

So I bought the system from "markidaho" on ebay, specified that my vehicle was a "1995 4x4 SUBURBAN 6.5 Turbo Diesel 2500 Series". I ended the auction with "buy it now" and paid immediatly with paypal. For two weeks I didn't get a single email confirming my payment or that anything had been shipped, but I did get feedback on ebay saying the item had been shipped 8/2. So I figured all was well and that it should arrive any time. Third week went by, I emailed seller, I got a responce that the item was just shipped (just shipped, I thought the 2nd?) and that he would give me tracking information later that night. Guess what? No tracking information. I email, get a responce 2 days later, tracking number, but no idea who shipped it, fedex, ups? So I tried them all, eventually figured it out. So I received the exhaust system on the 4th week. WOW, sure is some fast shipping! NOT!!!

Ok, now the install, how was the system?

I unboxed everything, found the instructions (shall I say destrucions?) for the system. VERY vague, nothing about suburban, or what hangers go where or anything. The illustration is nothing more than a copy from someones hand drawn picture of some other 6.5 system, not mine!!! Very unprofessional!!! So I take everything out and lay it on the shop floor and put it all together. I look at the downpipe and pay attention to the welding on the pipes, wow, thats odd, sure looks like a leak. Get out the electric tape, tape up the end, fill it full of water. Geez, looks like a sprinkler system, holes everywhere (really just 2 big ones). That wouldn't have been good, exhaust leak by the cab, safe? So I take the pipe to a local exhaust shop, get it fixed, cost, nada. First defect.

I then get under the ol burb and cut the exhaust system out. Take off the turbo covers to get access to the downpipe clamp etc. I get the whole system out, sure looks small, and very resrictive (pics to come).

Now the install. I get the downpipe up in the hole, doesn't seem to work very well, its bent at a slight angle where when it ends going to the back of the vehicle that it hits the rear heater hose lines (suburban problem). Not good, solution, tinkering, and some exhaust wrap (2" x 50ft = $50). Long story short, nothing really lines up well, and I am totally lost about the hanger situation. All the hangers that came with the kit didn't even come close to lining up with any of the factory hangers or boots, and I couldn't see any possible way to get the system to work on my suburban. The pipe going over the axle, 4" didn't line up correctly.

Edited, since cool-down.

[ 09-14-2004, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: john8662 ]

[DennisG01]

I bought mine (for a Suburban) right from Pinnacle - it was $300 + $50 for shipping - got it in about 5 days. I'll admit that my first impression wasn't too good as one of the pipes was sized (diameter) wrong. However, they were very good with sending out a new pipe - got it in two days. Yes, the 'instructions' were not the best, however there was always someone available at Pinnacle to help me over the phone. I didn't have any problems with fitment/alignment. I know this doesn't help you, John - just wanted to give another side of the story.

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
I got my system from JK. It was for the Chev Crew cab long box with a down pipe. It came with instructions but I don't remember if they were good or bad as I never looked at them. It was VERY easy to install and fit PERFECTLY. As did the crossover pipe that I got at later date. The pipe was aluminized steel and has yet to rust in the Minnesota salt(2 winters old) After hearing many horror stories about different cheaper brands, I think the JK system is worth every penny. I know that the Heath system and some of the other ones are just as good but I have no personnal experience with them. I have never tried to talk John down in price as I know everyone has to make a living, I'm a welder and when people try to haggle with me I normally politely tell them the phone number of my competion! :D
Down off my soap box now! :D tongue.gif
L8r
Conley Janssen

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

Thanks for the great write-up on your problems. Nice job of stating your frustration without at all going off the deep end. :D

I do have a bone to pick with you, however. If you think you're going to take away my unofficial title as the cheapest Page member, I won't go down without a fight! :mad: :D

Blessings!

Brian Johnson, #5044

[john8662]

Dennis Galligani,

Do you have access to a digital camera? Would you be willing to take pictures of your installed system, maybe seeing it installed will help me get it installed. I might tackle this one more time (even though I don't want to).

I called Pinnacle directly and spoke to their 6.5 guy, confirmed I should have all the right parts. So maybe identifying what goes where and how you tweaked your system in the install could help me. Thanks!

[DennisG01]

John, I couldn't get a wide-enough field of view for the picture - I don't have a lift (I did it all on my back). However, once I got going it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Some of the pipes that fit tight had to be tapped together with a hammer and a block of wood(use some WD-40 to help). As far as which hangers go where, I lined up the new pipes on the floor and the original system and just looked where the original hangers are (and the length/angle they come off of the original pipe) and compared that to the new hangers. When I put the new system on, one of the hangers around the muffler didn't line up with the rod that is attached to the frame as well as I wanted (it's stretching the rubber material a bit) but it works. Sometime I will have a longer rod welded on as an extension. Sorry I couldn't get a picture for you - but let me know if you need anything else. dennyandkim@hotmail.com

[Keith Richards]

I installed the pinnacle system on my truck.I admit it was frustrating,and the instructions were vague,and it took four weeks to get here.I actually installed the one pipe before muffler wrong and had to later redo it.Once I fixed it it's been great.Try to have patience and I hope it works out well for you.I actually took it to a midas after I installed it to see what they thought was wrong and the guy showed me what I did wrong ,free of charge and I went home to fix it right.Bottom line,the insructions do blow.Once the system is installed,it's good bang for the buck.

[dieselrealtor]

Glad to see the post, I was planning to buy the Pinnacle system shortly, now I think I want a little more info before making plans.

For those of you with the JK system, how long did it take for the install?

For those with the Pinnacle system, how long for the install?

If the pinnacle system takes an immense more time to install, it is no bargain.
Thanks in advance.

I love this site. :D

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
If I hadn't Stripped out the clamp for my down pipe then it would have been about 4hrs start to finish including removal. Make sure you get a down pipe! And at least a 6inch highly polished Chrome tip! :D
Have fun1
L8r
Conley Janssen

[MikeC]

I put a Kennedy system on my burban almost 3 yrs ago. Don't remember exact time to complete but it was around two hours. The hardest part was lining the downpipe up to the turbo, which my then 10 y.o. son ending up holding in place while I put the clamp on. I am still happy with John's system.

Mike

[99gmccrew]

I bought the pinnacle system and I could not be happier. It sounds great, it brought my egt's down about 200, and I had the old system off and the new one on in about 4-5 hours Approx. I had to make some minor adjustments (cut one pipe do to short bed, system made for long bed). I hate to see some one slam a system that some of us really are completely satisfied with. The 14 gauge aluminized 4" pipe is extremely heavy-duty, and still looks new as the day I installed it. For those of you thinking of buying the pinnacle system and are somewhat mechanically inclined, I certainly recommend it. Just wanted to let you know I'm a satisfied customer. I'm sure that other sytems out there are just as good or even better. For the money I don't think you can beat it. Just my opinion.

[FarmerDale]

Installed a Pinnacle system about a month ago. For me, also, the install was about a 4 hr affair. I was able to handle the downpipe on my own. Biggest problem was a clampbolt that I broke (after the muffler). Did a good dry fit and marked the pipes, then spent some time welding the joints post muffler. Also spent another 15 minutes fabricating a different hanger clamp between the DP and muffler utilizing and old part.

Purchased the system direct from Pinnacle. Received within 4 days. Instructions barely better than those written in China. Overall satisfaction rating 4 at install, 8 now.

[DennisG01]

Getting the old one off is real easy - what took the longest is getting the T-clamp off of the downpipe. Makes it easier to take the heat shield off of the turbo. Connecting back to the turbo is also the hardest part of putting it back together. Neither are actually hard to do - just a little time consuming when you do it for the first time. Overall, probably about 3 hours. If I had to do it again, I'm sure it would easily be 2 hours, if not less.

[john8662]

Update, I have contacted Pinnacle and am working with their 6.5 guy about what happened with my system. What we have come up with so far is that the 2nd pipe in the system is too short throwing the rest of the system and where hangers line up and such. Since I don't think I'll get my money back, I am going to see if I can stick with this system till its installed. I'll keep you posted

[damork]

I bought a 6.5 turbo down pipe from Pinnacle that was superb - price was under $100 when others were higher. It is made very well and fit the first try. I started with one from BD but it never fit and quite honestly was not near the quality of the Pinnacle (Jardine) pipe.

[john8662]

Another update.

This week has been spent talking to Pinnacle about what can be done and what parts I have. So far they have sent me two more pipes which didn't fix the problems. I have finally given up on this system completly. I now have to call Pinnacle and see what I can work out with them for a return. I guess the only thing that did work (after I fixed the bad welds) was the downpipe.

The sad thing about all this is that I can't drive the burb, sittin in the shop for 3 weeks now, its nice to pay insurance on something you can't drive. Now I have to figure some way of getting another system, and paying for another system as I should have in the first place.

Some of you have evidently had good success with these systems. My luck with these sorts of things isn't good I suppose, and if I had a welder and some better tools specifically for working with metal I might have been able to modify and fix it. But thats beside the point, it was supposed to be a kit, and work for my vehicle. I guess when they get the system back they'll figure out what was wrong with it, but I no longer have the patience to deal with it any more. I don't usually ever thow up the white flag, but for this I will.

I'll post back the final solution.

[DennisG01]

"it was supposed to be a kit, and work for my vehicle"

...yup, you are right. Sorry to hear you had to deal with all this. I'll give you credit, though - even though the Pinnacle system worked well for me, if I had to deal with what you have been dealing with I think I would have given up even sooner than you are! Good luck! smile.gif

[sidedump]

I feel your pain. I ordered bolt-on Mopar Performance exhaust for my XJ cherokee. Not a one of the hangers was welded on. $70 later at an exhaust shop it was on. The Banks system for my dually went by w/o a hitch every thing just fell into place.

[Bobbie Martin]

I can tell you the Stan's Headers exhaust doesn't fit Suburbans very well either. I bought one a few years ago. In short, Stan is one of the most rude and arrogant SOBs I have ever had the displeasure to deal with. After much discussion, including implying the factory made my Sub wrong (because Stan couldn't be wrong), he offered to refund my money, less 10% and shipping both ways, if the pipes arrived "perfect", never mind when I received it one of the pipes was hanging out of the box and I had already tried to install it (how else could you determine it wouldn't fit?) so I probably would have owed him money to take it back. Basically, I was stuck with it so I ended up getting a pipe made at a local exhaust place to make it work. Its OK, but I would never recommend a Stans exhaust system to anyone.

[john8662]

UPDATE smile.gif

Finally, Pinnacle stepped up to the plate and offered to pay for the install of the exhaust system under my suburban. I didn't want to do it at first, but eventually I weighed my options. I took off work and drove the very noisy 6.5 to a local exhaust shop. They installed the system, they had to remake ALL the hangers, but were able to get it installed in 45 minutes. WOW! I'll NEVER EVER try and install another exhaust system by myself without a welder and a cutting torch and a chop saw. The exhaust shop only charged me 50 to do the install, for $50 I should have just done that in the first place. But, they remarked, "you did the hard part already, installed the downpipe". If they had to put the downpipe on, it would have been quite a bit more.

So, I guess I have to restate my title to this post, Pinnacle exhaust is not crap, its just not a "kit" exhaust. You WILL have to modify, but I'll agree with the "pro-Pinnacle" people on here that the pipes were heavy duty and bent well, just don't hang well. Another plus at least, they did work with me on the phone and did what they could to make it right, which it is. For future reference, just buy direct from them, not on ebay!

I'm not complaining here, but sure is kinda noisy, has a gas engine sound (flowmaster sound). I was hoping for more turbo noise like the big rigs. I had a friend listen as I was going down the road, he can hear the turbo loud and clear. Either way, now i am happy.

John

[ 09-14-2004, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: john8662 ]