Extending Glow time 94+ for Low Compression 6.5's.

[john8662]

Alright, running around again in a 19.5 CR 6.5 and starting sucks at 20 degree nights when plugged in and then sitting outside at work at 40 degress during the day. It starts but smokes and misses etc.

I've got a relay and a Peninsular timer and am considering running this with the factory glow controller.

Will this set a code if I wire in parallel with the existing controller?

I'm running AC60G plugs, the last engine I did with 18:1 had KD Quickheats and it actually started better than this 19.5:1 with AC60G's. But, I couldn use the QH's in this engine because of the Banks New Body Style manifold (body on QH is longer than 60G's).

This is on my 1995 K2500 Suburban.

Other than starting it runs great, just hate the starting part. I have to daily drive this one this winter, so I gotta fix this starting thing.

18:1 doesn't bother me in the summer on the race truck because it's always warm enough then and it doesn't get driven in the winter, so I'm new to this cold starting low compression 6.5 part.

[16gaSxS]

John, I live in Montana and the temps get much colder than in Texas what I like is a Glow Plug over ride. I have a red button on the dash I simply push the button and hold the glow plugs on as long as I like. After it starts if it's smokey and running bit rough just push the button until things start smoothing out.
There is a Diesel supply outfit that sells kits for about $130 or you can put one together yourself and save about half from an Auto parts store. Do a search for Glow plug over ride and I think you can find directions on putting one together. :)
The Peninsular timer kit should work I think they have a manual override too. Codes.......try it and see.

[JohnC]

The PCM controls glow duration on the '95. I don't know if it can be programmed for more time. JK might. The PCM also monitors power on the line going to the plugs. If it sees power when it is not expecting it, it will set a code. I doubt if it takes any action, but the check engine light will probably come on.

If you power the plugs before turning the key on it will be unaware, but the effect will be less, too. Or, you could add a relay to disconnect the sense line while they are on manually...

[Kennedy]

The PCM controls glow duration on the '95. I don't know if it can be programmed for more time. JK might. The PCM also monitors power on the line going to the plugs. If it sees power when it is not expecting it, it will set a code. I doubt if it takes any action, but the check engine light will probably come on.

If you power the plugs before turning the key on it will be unaware, but the effect will be less, too. Or, you could add a relay to disconnect the sense line while they are on manually...

All of my chips produced in house have extended glow time and greatly improve start time. Definitley need my QH plugs as well. AC60g's won't cut it. I suppose I could jack the time longer yet, but...

[93_Burrito]

Ronniejoe provided another way in the Member's Area: Manual Glow Control for the Electronic 6.5TD (http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/features/manualglow.htm)

[joed]

On my 98, I had pretty good results by using a push button switch to energize an additional glow plug relay for several seconds before I turned the key on for the first time. True, you loose a second or so between your manual override and the normal PCM glow, but it still seemed to help. Doing it this way, the PCM is none the wiser...

I used a 'glow plug relay' from Napa to carry the current - I think a Ford-style starter solenoid or similar would also work, and is cheaper.

Joe.

[Kennedy]

Ronniejoe provided another way in the Member's Area: Manual Glow Control for the Electronic 6.5TD (http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/features/manualglow.htm)

Defintely an alternative, but since that article we have taken RJ into full auto mode.

When I had my '96 I too had a manual mode. You need a constant duty solenoid (standard will only last so long) a push button momentary switch, and some cable. Just rig the manual to energize the output of the factory relay.

My QH plugs also help a bunch.

[john8662]

Thanks for the tips gentlemen.

So, it looks like if I energize a relay before turning on the key to start the normal glow cycle the PCM won't be setting codes. I can't stand the idea of staring at the check engine soon light. I'd prefer this thing to be automatic and just run properly.

I've already got a chip in the truck, but would consider a different one, I'd think figuring out the best time for the 60G's would be the trouble here. I'll get with JK and see what we can work out there.

Looks like a little wiring is in order tonight when I get home...

[john8662]

Well, the rig is starting 110% better now, just as a stock one would start (maybe even better).

I got with JK and he recommended the QH plugs to see how much just plugs would help before installing one of his custom chips.

The QH plugs are a LOT better at starting than the 60G's. If you don't have manual control or are using stock glow times the QH plug is probably the only way to go. I'm not really impressed with the 60G in other engines I've got, but they're early 6.2's and stock glow controllers.

Second, installing the chip.

Kennedy's programming on starting works very very well on the low/cr engines. I didn't want the push button contol in the truck, but something more elegant, this is it.

The glow time is extended, and there are several carefully timed afterglows to take care of the after start cylinder temp drop. This eliminates the smoke all together.

The plugs definily have to glow after the initial glow time on a low/cr engine. This engine would always start, but then start missing, and making a plume of smoke, and sometimes die. I witnessed the issue on the bench. I manually glow a plug with a battery with the plug in a vice. Let it get red hot. unplug it, then watch it slowly cool down. Blow air across it and you'll see the red go away rapidly. The plug cools down rapidly in the chamber with the fuel spraying on it I'm sure, hence the smoke after initial start until everything gets hot enough to sustain complete combustion.

I have to have this thing automatic because it's simplier that way, and plus if I have to let a woman drive it...

So far so good. If you're going to use a low/cr 6.5 this would be something you'd want to seriously consider as part of your engine modiciations (a calibrated KD chip for starting).

J

[DennisG01]

I'd second the notion on John's chip/ECM glow plug timing. Even not plugged in, my 18:1 starts fantastically well in 25* temps. And I'm not even using the QH's - I have Beru's. Little, if any, smoke.

[Kennedy]

Sounds good guys.

I worked quite a bit with RJ trying to get this right without going too far. I can tell you from my manual glow experience that you can degrade starting performance by running too much glow as well.

The key is to use just enough to get a clean, reliable start. Plugs have a finite life expectancy so the longer you light them the more of this you use up.

I recently had contact with an individual who has been running 3ea 20 second bursts :eek: with a 1-2 second pause between cycles then cranking. I am waiting for feedback after suggesting that he start out with a 12 second single bursts and creep up longer if needed.

[Kennedy]

Just a quick bump for those experiencing starting issues.

[ronniejoe]

The afterglow is the key.

The push button arrangement that I came up with doesn't need any new solenoids or relays. It uses the factory relay with some diodes to control current flow. It's a simple, cheap way to get manual glow control. I can turn my plugs on anytime, engine running or not, with this arrangement and it doesn't set any codes or cause any PCM problems. In fact, using this button is how I helped JK figure out how long and how many pulses after starting to program into his chip.

I still use my manual over ride occasionally, but as JK said, I mostly use the full auto programming in his chip. It works great and is completely seamless for novice operators.