Manual locking hubs vs. Automatic locking hubs

[KidKodiak]

I recently purchased a 1984 CUCV M1009 (K5 Blazer). My uncle wants to trade me some automatic locking hubs for my manual locking hubs, even steven.

Can anyone tell me the pros and cons of each? I'll be moving to Houghton, Michigan next year - the 3rd snowiest city in the USA. They average well over 200 inches of snow each year.

So given the climate, and the fact that Michigan's Upper Peninsula is very rural, I'd like to make a very informed decision.

[DmaxMaverick]

The auto's work OK, so it's mostly a matter of personal preference. I recommend manuals for most applications, merely for the "positive" feeling of it (there's always a bit of uncertainty with any "auto" feature). In your case, your hubs should be locked in the fall, then unlocked in the spring. Then, in/out of 4x4 is just a throw of a lever. If you have to do any long highway runs on bare pavement, it takes only a second or two to unlock.

Swapping isn't a big deal, but quality manuals (Warn, Spicer, etc.) can be had for around $50. I wouldn't recommend swapping in a used set, as anything that may go wrong with them is usually associated with R/R.

[87max]

Keep your manual ones, theres a reason he wants to trade. Never been a fan of the autos, I like the simple nature of knowing hubs are locked.

[KidKodiak]

Thanks for your input. That just confirms exactly what I thought. I typically prefer to just leave things alone until they need to be fixed. I also like the fact that there is no question whether my hubs will be locked or not.

[Robyn]

I have owned several GM rigs with the auto hubs, have had a few of them leave me in tough straights a few times.

My personal recomendation, carefully remove the auto lockers, and drop them down an old and very deep mine shaft. Make sure they hit the bottom. :D

My 89 K5 has a fine set of warn U twistems that the P O installed shortly before I got the rig.

I do like Maverick says, Lockem in when the weather or in some cases, the season makes it a good idea and unlock them when things change.

A very positive shift on the fly and know that 4x4 will be there whn you need it is a very good feeling.

I have had the little thermal shifters on the early GMT400 trucks fail on me.

It never happens in the summer in the driveway either. Its always in the snow or some gawd aweful place that 4x4 is an absolute can't do without.

I have seen the auto lockers do two real anoying things, Lock up one side while you whizzing down the freeway at 70 and or fail to lock when you need them.

The manual hubs for these are dirt cheap and even the GM factory ones and a few of the Knockoffs work great.

The Warn hubs are the best.

Missy

[NH2112]

If you can find a set of Warn Lock-O-Matics for your 10-bolt, grab 'em up even if they're used. These are the best of both worlds - shift into 4Hi on the fly and the torque applied to the hubs by the axleshafts locks them (but they unlock under compression braking) or turn the dial for true "I know it's locked in" 4WD.

[Robyn]

OMG, I had forgotten about the "LockOmatics"

These have a roller lock or sprag in them.

I have not seen a set of these in years.

Missy

[wfyehl]

I had the auto-locking hubs on an '81 K10, and they would unlock at the most in-opportune time. I needed them locked to back my boat up into the Barn, but would unlock in reverse. I promptly bought the Warn Premium manual locking hubs.

[Robyn]

Ya just can't beat a set of premium warn hubs.

My 89 has the warns on it. I have a set of the regular GM locking hubs sitting on the shelf.

Just so easy to use.

I always twist the hubs in if the weather starts looking nasty or gets cold.

Just a great bit of piece of mind knowing that the beast will go when the chips are down.


Missy

[NH2112]

OMG, I had forgotten about the "LockOmatics"

These have a roller lock or sprag in them.

I have not seen a set of these in years.

Missy

My 76 Scout II had them, and I got a set for an 8-lug Dana 44 from a co-worker. I never had the Scout ones apart, but the 2nd set had roller locks like you mentioned.

[Robyn]

The Warn Autos were a fairly good idea, but as with all things that are "automatic" they are subject to issues.

The Original Warn style locking hubs and the various clones that have sprang up and of course the factory hubs (many were made by Warn) are so simple and almost failure proof.

I have in my over 40 years fooling with 4x4 stuff, only seen a couple hubs broken.

The one that broke were or had been subjected to some Gawd aweful abuse, so that about covers it.

I have I think stumbled onto the mentality that has promoted the use of the electronic/vacuum and other front axle engagment devices that require little to no action on the part of the driver.

Here a few weeks back, we had some snow and I was in town and heading back to the ranch.

I had come out of the Super Market, put my items in the truck, then proceeded to give the hubs a twist before heading up the mountain.

A young couple pulled into the parking spot next to me and as they got out the young fellow asked, "What are you doing" I replied, locking in the hubs so I can use the 4x4. :D

He looked at me with the "deer in the headlights" look and then slowly replied, " Geeeee, thats sure degrading to have to get out and turn those things, and get your hands dirty" Then he thought for a second and asked, "Dont you feel really self concious or foolish, having to do that"??

I gave him the best Missy Goodwench smart A$$ grin :D that I could manage (takes little effort on my part to do ya know) then replied nope, not at all, this sytem is nearly foolproof and always works no matter how nasty the weather.

I then reached over and patted his little Rice grinder 4x4 on the hood and commented in the best drawl I could muster, "When Y'all's Diode drive in this here toy goes south and it wont go, dont call me, I'll call you."

It would seem that todays children have become so worried about what people think ??????????/// :rolleyes:

When I see a grizzled old fellow crawl down from his lofty perch in an older 4x4 and give the hubs a twist, I give it one thought and only one, "Time to do the same"

An old friend, who is his late 80's now taught me after I got my first 4x4 rig, said it once, lock in the hubs when you still dont need the front end, dont ever wait until your stuck.

The system I enjoyed the most and would love to find the pieces to do it again was the NP 230 full time system.

It was simple, reliable and very durable.

My 75 K5 had it as did my 76 F250

Rarely did I ever have to do anything, unless the going got really tough.

No hubs to mess with/break (rare if ever) and Y'all could just drive.

Once in a while I would use the lock position but not too often.

This was the simplest of systems with no need for any fancy electronics, just a little lever on the floor.

OMG, get my hands dirty having to pull a lever, Gawd I might get a cramp in my little finger or heaven forbid, break a nail :eek:

Hubs rule, hands down.

Missy locks em in and heads for the high country. :D

[NH2112]

Yep, I loves me an NP203 too. Low range you can use on dry pavement! (The "lo" position.) I've had 4 mid-to-late-70s Dodges with them, and the funniest thing is that the Dodge setup is the closest to what's offered on nearly everything today even though it was widely considered the worst setup by the "experts" back in the day.

I especially liked how you could grease the wheel bearings through the access hole in the hub, and how you could even do it with the wheels on if you cut a 3/4" hole in the right place on the wheel (and always indexed the 2 holes when remounting a wheel.) You needed a special seal driver to get the inner axle (knuckle) seal in over the axle shaft, which was easily made by taking a seal to a muffler shop and having them expand a 12" long piece of pipe to just under the seal's OD and then weld a striking cap on the small end.

The only bad thing about the NP203 was how HEAVY the SOB was!

[Robyn]

The 203 was definately a beast. Its second cousin the 205 was almost indestructable.

The part time kits that were sold were a real mess. Many of them did not address the oiling issue and the cases would wear out real quick as the oil pumps did not run if the front shaft was not turning.

yess the full time systems of today are just about the same, just not as durable as the 203

I am looking for a 203 but they are scarce anymore.

I have had a few, but always seem to sell them.

I have given thought to using a 203 with a twin stick shifter setup. This makes it really easy to install.

The older 203 shifters will not fit through the hole in the floor on tha later Blazers, at least not without hacking the floor. The twin stick kits can be mounted to they work and look good.


Missy

[NH2112]

Now all this NP203 talk has me missing my Dodges! The best one was an M887 "maintenance contact team truck" that I had while stationed in Germany. It had a 318, TF727, NP203, Dana 44 front and 60 rear with 4.09s on which I was running LR "E" 9.50-16.5 Wranglers. Oh, and no power steering. It had an enclosed equipment body with a 4kW genset driven by a Wisconsin VG4D, a Hobart stick welder, and an air compressor. The starter was shot and I didn't have the hand crank so I couldn't get the engine started, I'd wanted to have it rebuilt while I was there but as a sergeant I didn't make enough money to put fuel in the truck, beer in Phil, AND have stuff like that done, so I decided I'd wait til I got back to the states.

However, the army wouldn't let me ship it back to the states at the end of my tour because "the first digit of the VIN wasn't 1 or 4." I tried and tried explaining that the standardized 17-digit VINs only came along in 83 or 84, and before that VINs were done however the manufacturer wanted. After having been in the army almost 9 years you'd think I'd know how impossible it is to get its bureaucracy to do anything not specifically mentioned in the regs, and the fact that the bureaucrats were all German was even worse LOL. So I had to leave it behind :(. Man, I did a lot with that truck, and the ex-USAF '76 W200 pickup I'd had before the 77 (that a friend of mine wrecked.)

Maybe I'll look for another one someday - this time a W300 with 318, NP435, and NP203.

[NH2112]

Found some pics of stuff I did with that W200/M887 - full-time 4WD didn't help much here LOL


Stuck just a tad bit! :eek:

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee245/NH2112/29751_07.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee245/NH2112/29751_08.jpg


But look how far I managed to make it!

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee245/NH2112/29751_09.jpg


And thanks to this nice farmer with a big tractor, I got out. A week later. :D

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee245/NH2112/29751_16.jpg

[Robyn]

Damn, L'ill bit muddy out eh ?? :D

Ya need a set of Mattracks to navigate that sort of goop.

Rode with a fella here locally thats got a set of Mattracks for his H1 Hummer.

That beast will traverse with ease, places that one should not go.

Those bolt on track units are just the "Cats A$$" when it comes to getting through deep goop, snow etc.

Now when you get that rig stuck, you are reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaLY STUCK :eek:

Here is a link to Mattracks http://www.mattracks.com/ (Poke around in this site, great videos and such to watch)

If you really need to go, these will make it happen.

Great Pics BTW, thanks for sharing.

Missy

[Artworks]

I still have my '74 chev "Rusty", I got warn locking hubs but also the factory full time parts yet. I also have a '79 6cly, auto w/ full time I got from a farmers shed few years ago for a parts truck for cleaning up his shed. & yes the full time transfer case is just about bullet proof, I stuck in 2 feet of hard snow and getting the '74 bouncing with 31/10.5 / 15's will break the 350 auto transmission !! When I get spare time & $$$$$$ I goning to get the '74 rollin again. I also have a '78 2 wd stepside I like to restore but ..........

[KidKodiak]

I totally forgot about this thread. Last winter was a busy one for me.

All this talk about the old full-time 4WD system makes me wanna call up my buddy.

Before we all grew up and got real jobs, he restored a 78 or 79 GMC half ton with that full time system. He loved it.

Maybe he'd wanna sell it with these high gas prices.:D


Does anyone know if Spicer makes a good hub? I swapped out axles on my Blazer. The front has Spicer manual hubs. I plan on rebuilding the original axles that came on the Blazer.

[DmaxMaverick]

When I need to replace manual hubs, I look for Spicer/Perfect Circle (with or without the Perfect Circle branding), specifically. Warn, or any other common brand are a distant second, in my book. Costs between them are close, depending on where you source them. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Summit used to have a good selection at good pricing.

[KidKodiak]

Good to know, Dmax. Thanks again.

[87max]

Got a chuckle of how fond the 203 was for alot of you, I never had much luck with the things, Shifter was always needing adjusted had to choose if I wanted hi or low side, could never get them in that sweet spot for both. It took about as much time to yank it out and put in a 205 as it did to fiddle with. Hence the scrap pile that accumulated between me and the others I used to truck pull & plow with. Far as hubs go about any manual one is good as long as its maintained, if I recall correctly I think they were mile markers that were all aluminum outside. They had a tight tolerance on the outside and once they started to corrode forget it you couldn't turn them with anything. Love that road salt here.