Back on the road

[jhornsby3]

Just got back in from running the pick up for the first time in 2 plus months. Got the new heads and got it all buttoned up last night. Put the new serp belt on today and got her fired up. And no spare parts left over, other than the vac pump, and no leaks.:D

I sure missed the smell of diesel smoke in the mornings.

John

[AllThumbs]

Good for you. Always good to finally button it up after being down. Now you can have a Merry Christmas and not think about it.

Let us know how the it works out. :D

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

yea, there isn't much that can beat the sound of a 6.5 startup when it's slightly cold. love the rattle of a diesel.

[jhornsby3]

Ah the rattle is nice but it's the smell for me. Reminds me of being a kid and driving between ports. Grew up a Navy brat and always on the move. Love the smell of diesel smoke in the morn. :D

[jhornsby3]

Drove the pick up to work today 104 miles round trip. Started hard on the cold start this morning but evened out quick and purred perfectly. Same this tonight when cold starting to come home. after warming up for 15 minutes it started blowing steam out the stacks and no pressure in the cooling system. Filled the res this morning but thought it was just a passed air bubble. It was full before starting to come home but was almost empty by the time I got home. The thing that got me was it only had the steam when crawling in traffic but not when moving from 5mph or more like when the head gaskets went. And to top it off now there is alot of blowby comeing out of the oil fill tube that wasn't there before the tear down. Everything was torqued to specs so I have no idea what went wrong. The bad is that I spent our savings replaceing the heads so this is going to have to sit for the next 4 or more months before we can have the cash to do this again.

John

[AllThumbs]

Bummer hornsby. I'm in the same boat. If my project bites the dust, it will be a while before I can give it another try. I've only started mine for a few minutes and I didn't have your issues in the first place. Hope I don't get them.:eek:

[Robyn]

John

Sorry to hear of the bad turn.

With no pressure in the cooling system ????

Are you getting coolant in the oil ??


Missy

[jhornsby3]

Yep, no pressure. The top hose was soft after the 2.75 hour trip home from north PDX last night. And it never got hot, warm but not hot. Had to have the heat on for the drive home of course.

No coolant in the oil or visa versa. I'm just wondering if I should take the valve covers off and try to re tourqe the heads. It's not a big leak like when the fire ring went on the #2 cyl but it is enough to cause steam out the exhaust. It's light enough to not be seen in the day light but at night with the light just right it can be seen real good. We had issues with the driver side head and my helper was tourqing the that side. I'm thinking that the last step wasn't 1/4 plus turn but more of that is close to 1/4.

That would just meen intake gaskets and one set of injector lines. Hopefuly.

[Robyn]

If its getting into a cylinder, there would be pressure in the cooling system, unless the leak is into an intake port.

Or possibly leaking into an exhaust port.

The extra blowby out the oil fill makes me wonder also. ?????

There should be no connection between the exhaust and the blowby though.

Now when my DaHoooley went down the first time, it was taking coolant into the oil and this resulted in a real mess and steam and such coming out the dipstick tube.

Would really pay to try and sort this out more carefully before yanking the heads back off.

Is it possible that one head bolt was forgotten and only partially tightened, allowing coolant into a valve cover area ????

Keep us posted

Missy

[jhornsby3]

Would really pay to try and sort this out more carefully before yanking the heads back off.

<<<I hear that. Those gasket sets are spendy. >>>

Is it possible that one head bolt was forgotten and only partially tightened, allowing coolant into a valve cover area ????

<<< That is very possable. That is where I'm leaning. Thinking about it what would happen if one was to gouge the silver coating on the head gasket and then not get things tight enough or go all the way to the 1/4 plus final step? It does stop the heavy steaming after being driven some time. I'm planning pulling the glows on the one side and see if there is coolant in one of the cylinders.>>>


Missy[/quote]

[rameye]

Any chance you didnt put sealant on some of the bolts that penetrate the wetted portion of the motor ???? especially on the intake.

I know its a reach...but you never know.

[jhornsby3]

Nope. All the bolts came with sealant on the threads and the caps. I was told to no put anything else on them and only to get the ones that did in fact have it on them.

John

[Robyn]

Nothing goes from water to the intake that I am aware of.

John, you did mention that these were a used set of heads, is that right ???

If there is water getting into a cylinder, but no pressure in the cooling system, then it could be a pinhole leak from an intake port/passage into a cylinder possibly.

Finding this sort of issue can be tedious.

I agree, yank the glows out on a cold engine and roll the thing through.

In fact, I would recommend yanking the exhaust manifolds as well as the intake so you can get a very clear look at whats going on.

With all this stuff off the engine, you can get in there and look down each of the intake ports and also see into the exhaust ports.

With all the clutter out of the way and the glow plugs removed you can get a first hand look at what may come out of the engine when it rolls over.

When you did the heads, did you have the water pump and or timing cover off ??

Thinking about possible leak spots.

When we spoke the other day, you mentioned something about these heads being used and that the engine they were on had met an early doom.

Had these been a fresh set of castings prior to the PO using them ??

I am very suspicious that there could be a pinhole leak in a casting.

The steam from the stacks is definately a warning sign. No pressure in the cooling system is a good thing but, the coolant is getting into the thing someplace.

I will be in the shop from 11 to about 3 today (Saturday) if you want to chat.

John, I hate to even breach this subject but, did you look number 8 cylinder over well when the heads were off ??

I have seen a few of these suckers with a crack in the cylinder take on coolant but not cause pressure issues.

A cracked cylinder will be very visible at around the 7 Oclock spot when looking into the bore.

Missy

[DmaxMaverick]

Stacks???
Consider the possibility some precipitation (or foul play) has dumped some water (or something) into them. It wouldn't be the first time. It could cause the conditions you are seeing, steaming at low speed, then blowing out at higher speed. Much depends on how the system is configured. Run the engine cold for a bit (don't let it warm up enough to steam off the moisture), then loosen a low-point pipe connection and see what, exactly, is coming out.

The no-pressure cooling system doesn't add up. If you are getting water/coolant into the intake (via a coolant passage) somehow, it might act as you are seeing. At idle, the intake is under vacuum, however slight. A bit of load, and it's under pressure. However, that condition would very likely pressurize the cooling system. Couple all this with a possibility of still having some air in the block from the build, and it gets more and more unclear. If it were a head gasket, or any other combustion chamber leak, it would surely pressurize the cooling system, and that doesn't take long after a cold or hot start.

[jhornsby3]

John, you did mention that these were a used set of heads, is that right ???

<<<Yes. The heads are new castings from NAPA in PDX and were on a truck for 4k miles. He used a block that had a large amount of deck cavitation on the #1 and #2 cyl. He thought it would seal but did not and coolant got into the oil and he ended with a broken crank.>>

If there is water getting into a cylinder, but no pressure in the cooling system, then it could be a pinhole leak from an intake port/passage into a cylinder possibly.

<<< I was told this by two career diesel techs. They both said that the gasket needs to be prestine to seal good. The issue of my helper scratching the surface is most likely the culprate. I'm going to keep things simple before going into this on maybe's and possably's. If you know what I meen. >>>

Finding this sort of issue can be tedious.

<<<It has been from the beginning. >>>

I agree, yank the glows out on a cold engine and roll the thing through.


When you did the heads, did you have the water pump and or timing cover off ??

<<< Nope. Only removed what was needed to get to things. That stuff needed to stay.>>>


The steam from the stacks is definately a warning sign. No pressure in the cooling system is a good thing but, the coolant is getting into the thing someplace.

<<< The scraping on the gasket on the driver side was in the area of the cooling port to the back of the head between the two back cyl. Wanna place a bet? :D>>>

I will be in the shop from 11 to about 3 today (Saturday) if you want to chat.

John, I hate to even breach this subject but, did you look number 8 cylinder over well when the heads were off ??

<<<Yes it was nice and clean. It even still had the cross hatching although slight.>>>

John

[Robyn]

Explain the "Scratching" on the gasket ????


Missy

[jhornsby3]

My buddy slid the head over into place and let the top back corner scratch the coating on the gasket off between the 3 and 5 cylinders. Not completly but and bout 1/16th to 1/32nd of an inch wide and about two inches long.

No I wasn't watching and taking notice. :eek:

John

[Robyn]

OOOOOOOOOOOOK
Well there is the very real possibility that therein lies the gremlin.

These gaskets are, shall we say delicate.

Probably better yank that head back off and take a peek.

3-5 ?? well at least its the easy one to get off.

Having to "Moose" these heavy heads around is one of the very very real reasons that I hate trying to do these in the chasis.

I did help a friend a while back do his six and a half in the rig and we took our time and both of us got up into the engine bay and carefully lowered the beast in there.

Niow, you mentioned having a garage ???

If the hood is not off, get it off and rig a pulley overhead with a good stout rope.

Sling that head using whatever you have handy fastened to some of the intake/exhaust bolt holes and then one of you hold the rope while the other guides the head into place, "Gently"

Trying to hold one of those heads and hoping your Back does not cramp or worse can be tough.

John
If you need some help or would like me to look this over, just give me a call.

Robyn

[jhornsby3]

Thanks Robyn! The more I think about it the more I keep leaning to that side. Now to look into the gaskets before I start taking it apart. Like to have things together so I can just get to it and get it done.

John

[john8662]

A good compression tester sure helps diagnose these issues.

The gaskets are very delicate. I inspect them carefully before the leave the parts store, and have turned some down. Too far in there to fix it when something doesn't work.

If you have an extra set of rocker arms, you could remove the rockers off the shafts and use the shafts for handles on the heads. When installing the head I usually find a place to sit in the engine compartment. New clean head sitting on radiator/shroud area and grab one end of a head with my hand for angling, the other hand on one of the shafts. You pretty much gotta do it on one swoop and drop it right on the pins accurately. It's a pain!

It could be worse, could be heavy ol big block chevy heads.

[Subzilla]

When doing my heads this past summer, I caught the edge of the gasket enough to bend it. Fortunate to see it and got another from the store.

I used my engine hoist to remove and drop my heads in. Used a helper to slowly and gently lower them back onto the engine. Used the load leveler to angle them just right.

[jhornsby3]

When installing the head I usually find a place to sit in the engine compartment.

It's a 95 and I'm not the size of a mouse. :eek: When I replaced the heads on my 74 Blazer I had years ago that was where I did all the work. Drapped a small tarp over the hood with two heat lamps and did the work out in the wind rain and even the snow. I was so toasty that I worked in there with shorts and a t-shirt.:D But yeah there is no room in there to shoe horn my fat butt in the compartment.

John

[jhornsby3]

Got a new gasket set and went out today to do some checking. Still no oil in coolant and no coolant in the oil. Coolant in the bottle was right where it was when i parked the truck.

Pulled the glows and cranked to see where and if the coolant was in the cyls. Nothing. Cranked nice and smooth. Put the glows in and cycled the glows and it fired right up with a bellow of white smoke. Smoked heavy for a few minutes and cleared right up. I let it warm up and the upper hose firmed up like normal not hard and not soft like it was doing before. After it warmed to op temp it had a small amout of white/blue smoke at idle but cleared up at high idle and going down the road. The exhaust smelled of fuel when it has the light smoke and not like any coolant. While out I noticed it smoked more than usual at heavy throttle and now one injector is leaking from the body. This is acting like I have an injector issue not a head gasket leaking issue.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
John