View Full Version : Questions on ground(s)
I thought I read that there are four grounds in the engine compartment.
By the way, I am having a stall/hiccup problem.
Sooooo, I found three and cleaned. They were the two at the front of the engine, the main grounds from the negative side of the two batteries(Batteries are brand new) and the one in the back, passanger side. That one has a braided cable. I also cleaned the one on the frame near the starter. That one is two braided cables. One, I assume, leads to the back of engine one previously mentioned. I couldnt determine where the other one leads, at least not yet.
Also, if anyone knows and can tell me what the Volt meter on the dash should be reading if everything is correct.
Possibly related. Occasionally when turning the key to start, it wont turn over. This happens very infrequently. I will try the key again and it always starts right up. It has a new lock cylinder, actuating rod and ignition switch/harness installed recently by my mechanic.
The engine runs good and I am not getting any smoke or lack of power. Just a quick duration stall that happens maybe once per day or so, although it can go a week without missing a bit. Sometimes at idle, sometimes running down the road at 60. No matter if hot or cold.
Lift pump is fine. I am also going over the other possibilities.
Thanks for any and all help.
jerry598
11-14-2010, 13:50
I think you found all the grounds that I am aware of. Did the problem begin after installation of the new ignition switch? If so, it could be the culprit.
I think you found all the grounds that I am aware of. Did the problem begin after installation of the new ignition switch? If so, it could be the culprit.
Thanks Jerry! No, the problem was happening before. I had the new switch put in because I thought it might be causing the stalls. I had been having occasional no starts for a couple of years. So I thought since it could be the ignition switch causing both issues, I would go ahead and replace (probably the original works, anyway)
I had a stall since the switch was put in, so It seems like I was wrong. I am starting by cleaning grounds and I wanted to make sure I got them all. I also going to clean the connections to the starter.
One thing I will say, since I have cleaned grounds, the truck seems to have more power. I can maintain speed with hardly any pedal.
The are a bunch of black ground wires from the PCM circuitry in one of the intake manifold bolts near the rear of the passenger's side head.
Splitrimz
11-16-2010, 17:13
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=32041&highlight=famous+ground
Did you check this thread?
The are a bunch of black ground wires from the PCM circuitry in one of the intake manifold bolts near the rear of the passenger's side head.
Thanks John!
I think the one you are refering to has 4 leads and a braided wire, too. I got that one. I actually took the stud out so I could clean the surface of the manifold. By the way, coolant leaks out if one does.
I saw a thread where there is a braided strap that comes off the frame and goes to back of the engine. The reference on "Stalls 6.2-6.5" also references it.
I will check that out tomorrow.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=32041&highlight=famous+ground
Did you check this thread?
Thanks!. I am going to make mine look that clean!
There should be one strap from the engine to the body (firewall) and one from the engine to the frame (IIRC). Not sure exactly how they are configured, though.
There should be one strap from the engine to the body (firewall) and one from the engine to the frame (IIRC). Not sure exactly how they are configured, though.
OK. I got under the truck and located the strap that goes from frame to firewall. Basically untouched since the Jaspar Engine was installed in 2001.
Looking at it, I see that it is hard to get to. Anyone have some insight for me on how to access? Is there a substitute ground location to at least temporarily get a good ground to see if it will rectify the stall issue?
I think all the grounds that could cause stalling go to the intake manifold stud. Look them over some more. Regardless, if you ground the frame and body to the engine you should be OK.
a5150nut
11-20-2010, 09:12
Jumper cables. Best sustitute ground cable I can think of. Hook em up as needed.
Artworks
11-21-2010, 06:45
Easiest way to access the frame ground is to remove the passenger wheel & tire & the innner fender on the passenger side. all bolts can be removed with impact wrench or cordless impact. ( I found this out when I changed glow plugs.) I ran a a extra ground wire (8ga) from passenger battery ground to a bolt on the intake as well as to fender beside battery. I got some extra grounds from drivers battery to engine and body also.
I think all the grounds that could cause stalling go to the intake manifold stud. Look them over some more. Regardless, if you ground the frame and body to the engine you should be OK.
Thanks. I will probably leave that alone...for now.
After having cleaned the grounds and cleaning the positives and the Alternator wire to Battery I was all set to claim "problem solved" as I had gone 2 and 1/2 days with no stall.
Today, while coming to a stop truck stalls. Turn the key and it starts immediatly. I did notice a quick revving with no throttle as it started. Just a quick rev and then everything normal(like it always does). As I was thinking about this trying to figure out any correlation to the stall and any typical time it does it, I seem to think it probably happens most often while I am slowing to come to a stop or manueviring in a subdivision at low speeds. Sometimes it stalls while idling. It never stalls early in a days running, usually during the end of a day. It has stalled at highway speed but maybe only once.
Typically, when I had a stalling issue, I would put in a new PMD as they got about 20-40000 miles on them and I would get the increase in stalls. I have been hoping that since the new "gray" one was going to be more long lived and it has only been in for a year, there is something else to blame.
From what I have been reading I have to elimate some of the simpler causes. Like the grounds. And at this point I think they can be deemed suitable. As for the Alternator, I think its fairly new and of good quality(GM Delco) and the Batteries are less than 2 months old. I will begin on some of the other tasks such as wire inspection.
I need to compile my truck repair receipts and start to find out the age of some of the components. I am starting to wonder about the fuel shut off solenoid on the pump and the oil pressure switch as both of those are as old as the Jasper Motor installed in 2001(120000
miles ago)
Easiest way to access the frame ground is to remove the passenger wheel & tire & the innner fender on the passenger side. all bolts can be removed with impact wrench or cordless impact. ( I found this out when I changed glow plugs.) I ran a a extra ground wire (8ga) from passenger battery ground to a bolt on the intake as well as to fender beside battery. I got some extra grounds from drivers battery to engine and body also.
Thanks! Thats how it looked to me. The impact wrench sounds good cause it looked like fifty bolts holding up the inner fender. I am at the point now trying to decide if it is worth going after that ground or looking elsewhere for the cause. I may just monitor it a little longer to see if I improved it any(as noted in recent post it was 2 1/2 days w/o stall).
It looked like there was heater hoses attached to the engine side of the fenders, is there anything else attached to the inner fender?
Have you tried running a heavy dose of a good fuel conditioner? When you are decelerating the PCM stops injecting fuel all together until you reach idle. If the fuel solenoid sticks then right when you get to idle it will not puck up in time and it stalls...
Artworks
11-27-2010, 06:30
Thanks! Thats how it looked to me. The impact wrench sounds good cause it looked like fifty bolts holding up the inner fender. I am at the point now trying to decide if it is worth going after that ground or looking elsewhere for the cause. I may just monitor it a little longer to see if I improved it any(as noted in recent post it was 2 1/2 days w/o stall).
It looked like there was heater hoses attached to the engine side of the fenders, is there anything else attached to the inner fender?
The battery "box" and my air cleaner box had couple bolts attached to inner fender. and that's about it. you may want to look for wires looms ect.attaced . It only takes about 20 min. or so the first time, including rermoving the battery ( I rapped bit of rubber inner tube around my + battery cable to prevent short but probably should have disconnected both batteries - cables) jacking up right side and removing tire so you can get in at everything.
The battery "box" and my air cleaner box had couple bolts attached to inner fender. and that's about it. you may want to look for wires looms ect.attaced . It only takes about 20 min. or so the first time, including rermoving the battery ( I rapped bit of rubber inner tube around my + battery cable to prevent short but probably should have disconnected both batteries - cables) jacking up right side and removing tire so you can get in at everything.
Thanks Artworks. I am going to hold off for now on that last ground while I pursue a fuel issue recently discovered. I am posting that in the next post.
Have you tried running a heavy dose of a good fuel conditioner? When you are decelerating the PCM stops injecting fuel all together until you reach idle. If the fuel solenoid sticks then right when you get to idle it will not puck up in time and it stalls...
JohnC, I just started running Stanydyne in it a few weeks ago. You know...after the fact.
Just for ha ha's I checked the filter. I had no idea I saw what I saw(see photo). I was sure that I just changed it maybe two months ago. In fact, I am definetly going to get/find those receipts so I can see whats going on. One thing that I should mention now is for the last year, the floor of the dump body has quite a few rust holes in it. Some/most are over the fuel tank. I am starting to wonder if the water that is now hitting the fuel tank is starting to seep in dragging dirt/rust from the quickly rusting body. I don't ever remember seeing a filter that I changed out look this bad. Any suggestions?
The picture is of a new filter and the one I just pulled out.
For now I am going to run and monitor.
Looks pretty much like mine..
Looks pretty much like mine..
This filter was installed on 6/14. I would have to guess the mileage on it. No more than 3500-4000. And if this is whats causing my stall problem then it was getting clogged 1000-1500 miles ago.
Could this be normal? Or do I have dirty fuel problem?
I think the only real way to know if the filter is jammed is to flow it...That means before you do a change out...... Pop off the fuel inlet hose at the IP and turn the lift pump on and flow it....adequate pressure and volume??? if so keep looking.
Next...I was re-reading your original stalling post..
I think if all other things prove to be a dead end, that you also consider a possible problem with the torque converter. If it is locked up at slow speeds or stops it will stall out the motor.
Just throwing stuff on the wall here...see what sticks.
I think the only real way to know if the filter is jammed is to flow it...That means before you do a change out...... Pop off the fuel inlet hose at the IP and turn the lift pump on and flow it....adequate pressure and volume??? if so keep looking.
Next...I was re-reading your original stalling post..
I think if all other things prove to be a dead end, that you also consider a possible problem with the torque converter. If it is locked up at slow speeds or stops it will stall out the motor.
Just throwing stuff on the wall here...see what sticks.
Thanks Rameye. The new Fuel filter didn't help as I got a couple of brief stalls Monday. I am going to keep to the protocol spelled out in the "Stall reference" guidance. May be bringing it to my mechanic for some of the diagnosis'. Still, the truck runs great except for the occasional stall.
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