Too Good to Die [Archive] - TheDieselPage.com Forums

AllThumbs

10-28-2010, 06:26

In July 2008, the neighbor kid was pestering me to buy my 1990 Ford F250 with NA 7.3 L diesel. It was an old cattle hauler with a beat up body and regular cab, but a heart of gold. Diesel at the time was about $5 a gallon. When I went to Kansas to visit my father, diesel pickups were lined up along the country roads by the hundreds. When I saw my current ride, I could not pass it up if the kid wanted to buy my old diesel, he was on.

So here are the facts:

1996 3500 Silverado, Vin engine code F, 4X4, 4.10 rear end with locking differential, four speed with overdrive electronic transmission, factory axillary transmission cooler, water pump with the raised HO in the casting. Condition - as near perfect as a truck this age could be. Beautiful interior, not a spot of rust anywhere, everything worked. 202,000 miles with only two previous owners. In service as the hauler for a skid loader.

All this for the princely sum of $4700. Minus the $2000 for the old Ford and I'm in this beautiful truck for $2700. Life was sweet.

First issue, new injection pump within the year. Not completely unexpected but not fun either.

Current issues:
1) Loses about 3 quarts of antifreeze in 10,000 miles This appears to be much worse since recent incident. Explain later

2) Loses power on hills while towing. I was very surprised to find this truck had much less power than the old Ford NA 7.3 L.

3) A recent incident indicates there might need to be considerable work done to replace parts that have just plain done their time. The air conditioning clutch seized, shredded the serpentine belt leaving me stranded beside the road without power steering, power brakes, water pump, or alternator. If the air conditioning clutch is bad, how is the harmonic damper, belt tensioner, timing chain and other parts that could lead to catastrophic engine failure?

That lead to other questions: is a fluid damper actually worth $425? What can I do that will solve the power problem?

Here is my plan. If I am doing things out of order, please chime in and help me head in the right direction.

1) The cheapest solution is to keep this engine running as long as possible without major breakdown or cost.

2) To that end, I intend to R & R the radiator and do a proper clean up and repair of any problem there.

3) R & R the harmonic damper, timing chain (where is that Phazer), injectors, and glow plugs. While I'm at it, I will remove the snorkel.

4) Install EGT, boost, and tranny temp gauge. I need real information to make some of these decisions and this seems the only way to get it. Ordered these yesterday.

5) Install 3" crossover pipe and 4" exhaust system.

6) Install an intercooler.

7) When the time comes, install a new engine with girdle on an upgraded block and heads.

This is a beautiful truck that should not be sent to the scrap heap because the power plant has lived its useful life - currently 239,000.

Some of these things may happen in a different order as needs dictate. I want to spread it out over some time as $$$ become available. Obviously, if the water problem is a sign of terminal engine failure, that will change how things progress.

The first step is going to be pressurize the water system and see if the water pump or a hose develops a nose bleed. Second, test the lubricant to see if antifreeze shows up in the oil ( or any other thing that doesn't belong there). Third, compression check. After that????

Suggestions, help, pointers, anything that will help send me in the right direction.

Currently the engine starts first time every time. Cold start, puff of white smoke, rough idle for 30 seconds or less then runs smooth as glass all day. Some loss of oil I attribute to the sort of leaks that evolve over time with an engine of this age. The truck never smokes after warm up no matter what.

I'm thinking the power outage may well be a clogged exhaust system since I think this system may well be original.

Common use for me is pulling my camping gear: 24 foot fifth wheel with 16 foot boat behind. I'm going to try to weigh the whole thing today so I have real data to give you but I think it is well within the GCVW guidelines.

Help me keep this old truck going down the road.:)

racer55

10-28-2010, 07:48

Like noted,address the coolant loss first.
Head gaskets fail and heads crack along with blocks on these engines.
Your list is a good one except for the ommission of an aftermarket ecm flash for towing as a power adder.
The fludidamper is an option for sure but the oem balancer got it to where it is today-what more do you think it needs besides a new oem balancer and new lower pulley for preventative maintenance?
If there are any signs of detrrioration with the pulley or balancer than they must be replaced asap.

Robyn

10-28-2010, 07:54

I am going to say that at 200K+ on the clock, the engine has given a good service life.

The lose of coolant could be several things, head gasket/s, a cracked block thats allowing coolant to seep into the oil ???

Power issues can likely be, worn out injectors and the IP could be used up too.

Get an oil sample done to see if you have glycol in the oil.

If there is glycol in the oil then the issue needs to be addressed ASAP

Glycol will wipe out the bearings real quick.

If the oil is OK then the coolant is possibly passing a head gasket or there is an external leak.

At 200K the possibilities are many.

Time to start planning to do an overhaul.

The 96 could have a squirter block in it depending on when it was made or if the truck ever had a replacement engine.

Get that oil checked out and let us know and we will move ahead from there.

Missy

AllThumbs

10-28-2010, 10:01

I forgot to put in, this is a full crew cab with a long box. I weighed the truck this morning and with any luck will get the fifth wheel and boat on the scale before the day is over and then try to get a pic or two to post so you can see what we are dealing with.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Oil sample is next.

AllThumbs

10-29-2010, 14:20

Crawling around under the truck, I discovered a streak of antifreeze on the bend in the frame member. Since the exhaust all runs inside this member, the leak almost has to be outside the engine. It appears to be coming from the fill/overflow tank, but I can't see exactly where. At any rate, that is good news as it will be easily fixed once I isolate it. Oil test is next to make sure no antifreeze is in the oil. If that proves to be true, we can start work on some of the other areas.

Weight of the rig surprised me as I did not think it would be that much since the 5th wheel trailer is small compared to some but the added boat pushed it up. Gives me a little more respect for what I am asking the truck to do.

Truck 5th Wheel Boat
7280 + 4560 + 1920 = 13760

Actual weight while on a camping trip will be greater because of bodies, gear, water, groceries, ect. So I'm asking the truck do some pretty hefty lifting. The owners manual states that the trailer can be up to 10,000 if it is a 5th wheel. That makes me well within safe limits, but explains the grunting going up hill since once rolling things go pretty good until you actually have pull/lift the whole works up a hill.

Anyway, that is what we are working with.

rameye

10-29-2010, 14:53

If its on the passenger side...I bet you found your coolant loss....overflow tank....pressurized coolant tank= head gasket.

Hoping for the best

AllThumbs

10-29-2010, 16:50

Sure could be, but how do I test for that? I looked under the truck after it was hot from running and could see no flow. The level in the tank was up, but not more than expected from regular use. There has been nothing coming out of the overflow tube itself which would have to come from lifting the pressure cap. The leak is somewhere else. Does that still sound like a head gasket?

Thanks for the tip.

rameye

10-31-2010, 14:18

Thumbs...

Test 1

The simple test is to squeeze the upper rad. hose when cold...should be squooshy.

With all caps in place hoses connected, fire it up.

Wait a minute...squeeze the hose with engine running...should still be plenty squooshy..

If its hard or harder then before...you got issues.

Test 2

Borrow/buy a radiator pressure tester...start truck...watch for numbers to climb. It shouldnt move for minute or two.

If you are early in the failure the pressures rise more slowly...also the over flow may not always present as fluid coming out...mine was gases only ..little or no fluid.

Test 3

With the cap on, engine running...stare at the overflow bottle.....look for the bubbles. my bottle was/is pretty foggy so I didnt catch it until it got real bad....

Heck I always thought the sounds I heard when I shut it off...was the the A/C system equalizing...thought it odd I had to add fluid once in a great while......ignorance is bliss for sure!!!

AllThumbs

11-01-2010, 05:50

Thanks rameye,

I have started in that direction a little already. The hose is squishy cold but have not tried it once I fire up. I am replacing the small hose that runs from the top of the radiator to the fill tank because that is where it is leaking. If I tighten that up, something will have to give somewhere else if it has too much pressure.

My kit for testing the oil should be here today or tomorrow so I will get on that.

AllThumbs

11-01-2010, 14:02

Installed new hose from radiator to base of fill tank. Barb on fill tank was chipped up high but appeared to be good lower down so new hose and new clamp tightened it up good. No undue pressure 1 minute, 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes. All this time was sitting at idle while I chainsawed some trees down that the wind had pushed down on the driveway. Tomorrow I have to make a 40 mile run so will see what that does. Top radiator hose remains squish and I can see the fluid jump in the tank if I squeeze it. No sound of pressure coming from the tank.

Till tomorrow.

rameye

11-02-2010, 09:35

It sounds positive...no worries....I'd be real happy.

It would have been rock hard in a few minutes.

AllThumbs

11-02-2010, 15:07

A 40 mile trip produced no leaking antifreeze and no pressurized hoses. Special thanks to rameye for the help.

The Oil Analysis kit got here today and I took a sample. It will be shipped tomorrow when my favorite wife goes to town.

Results pending.

AllThumbs

11-09-2010, 15:02

I do really hate to ask because it sounds so dumb, but I have the glow plugs changed except for #6 and I can't for the life of me see how to get at it. The down pipe is in the way and I would gladly take it out because I intend to R & R with a whole new system anyway, but I can't even see the bolts much less get a wrench on them. Any body want to help this dummy out and tell me how that is done?

Thanks to all.

rameye

11-09-2010, 17:48

The last 2 on that side are a real PITA!..

Suggestion 1...do not attempt from up above...remove the tire, remove the curtain and go thru the inner fender well.

Suggestion 2....I like to undo the turbo down pipe from the turbo....I can drop it in 4-5 minutes and move it to make more room.

Suggestion 3....Those pesky glow plug wire heat shields have to come off...they are easy to remove and this eliminates alot of mental gymnastics. I dont think 8 has one..

After that ...its pretty much straight up mechanincs...you might need a universal joint to overcome some angular stuff. Put lotsa never-sieze on...you will be here again. Dont buy cheap-ass plugs...or you will be here again real soon! Hand thread before you put a wrench on to tighten them up.

Enjoy

jerry598

11-09-2010, 22:26

AllThumbs

11-10-2010, 07:39

rameye, Thanks for the suggestions, but what I really wanted to know was how to get at the bolts to the down pipe. That is my real goal and I can't seem to find a way to get at the bolts. You must be able to do it very easy if you can get it off in 4 - 5 minutes. I know it sounds dumb, but thanks for trying to help. I'm going back out right now to go at it again.

rameye

11-10-2010, 08:08

There is a band clamp underneath the turbo...loosen the clamp...(almost all the way) and you will be able to seperate the turbo from the down pipe.

Dont mess with the turbo bolts unless you ate your Wheaties!

Undoing the requires an amazing array of sockets, ratchet wrenches and double universal joints. I do it different every time! I will tell you that those Sears adjustable ratchet wrenches have made life a lot better.. Some bolts I do from up top...others from down below.

Bottom line...there is no need to remove the turbo to change glowplugs. Keep it in place!

I use a floor jack or sometimes a block of wood wedged between the frame and downpipe to hold it (turbo downpipe) in place for reassembly.

Enjoy!

AllThumbs

11-10-2010, 13:32

Well, I made a big breakthrough today. Got down to the down pipe. Did not pull it off, but it had enough oil on it that it turns easy. I was really waiting for the oil analysis to come back and it got today over the internet. Considering the age of the motor, the report could hardly be better. Even with 10,000 on the oil, they recommended another 7,500 then retest. I have no intention of doing that as I have the oil here ready to go. I just wanted to get the analysis under my belt to see if I could proceed with the rest of my upgrade project or would be forced to go to a new engine first.

I'm making real progress, I have it down to where it will not start now. I changed the fuel filter and the lift pump would not bring fuel up to the filter. The fuse is good so I think I am looking at a lift pump. I have been suspicious of it for some time. My hearing is not good, but I don't hear it running and I can hear the glow plug controller click.

At this point, I'm going to start buying the parts I need for the up grade. I hoping this engine will last another year. So far looks good.

Thanks for the help rameye. I'll get a block of wood ready. Maybe not, I'm going to redo the exhaust so I may just extract it while I'm at it. How difficult is the cross over pipe? Can you spray WD 40 from the back side of the bolts? I'm thinking that will help a lot. Do I have to get the turbo out to put in new injectors?

Thanks everyone.

rameye

11-10-2010, 15:54

I personally like to have the turbo off when I do injectors...once you kill yourself doing the turbo the first time , you have a game plan,you can pull it off in 1/2 hour or so therafter.

To do them right you have to torque both the injectors and the lines to spec....the turbo just makes it miserable.

Now as far as the filter change ...clean out the bowl!!!! You will find all sorts of crap ready to plug your injectors in the bottom....I'm talking REAL clean. As a precaution I unplug the fuel line from the injection pump and flow a cup or so before hooking back up.

Cross over pipe.... spray it with copius amounts of PB blaster or your favorite breakem loose stuff. Chances are without the addition of heat that some of these studs will break. Then you get to take off the manifolds....not fun. So strong suggestion....heat the studs good and hot before you back off the nuts.

If your taking off the crossover for performance.....save your money...do the exhaust...opinion only.

You will have to drop the front drive shaft if shes a 4WD.

Sounds like you got the pump figured out...it makes lots of noise when the T is open and the engine is off. Wire it direct to make sure it works.

AllThumbs

11-10-2010, 17:38

I took great pains with the bowl to make sure it was clean. I even poured some diesel in and opened the drain but got nothing out. Makes me think it may be plugged. There was lots of grainy gunk in there that I got out. Glad to know about the cross over pipe. No sense going to the trouble if it isn't going to amount to that much. I don't need to beat little old ladies at the stop sign, I just need some towing power.

I'm down to the point I have as clear a shot at the turbo as I'm going to get. Air box is off, heat cover is off the turbo, overflow radiator box is out of the way. Where are the connecting bolts to the turbo? Looks to me like they are underneath. How do you get at them and what size are the bolts? Am I going to need heat there?

I sure appreciate the help. :D

1629dill

11-10-2010, 18:16

I just did my injectors a few weeks back and I found this site very useful. I did have a little problem with the nuts on the turbo. I had to grind down the edge of the 15mm wrench I used to fit on the back two nuts on the turbo (the side facing the engine). I also used a 30mm axle nut wrench and I had to grind down the top lip for it to fit onto the injector behind the turbo.

Goog Luck!

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123265

AllThumbs

11-10-2010, 21:53

Boy dill you saved my bacon. How come I could not find that post on my own? Oh well, I'm just glad to have it. Sure makes my life a lot simpler. Isn't this a great place?

AllThumbs

11-10-2010, 21:57

Oh Oh, look what I found. US Diesel is still selling the Phazer timing gears.

AllThumbs

11-11-2010, 13:25

Fender liner out, #6 glow plug in (it was bad), two of four bolts on the turbo are loose, other two are soaking. I'm using WD40 and I think I'm going to have to get some P'Blaster. I don't like the smell of the stuff, but it works. I probably don't smell so good when I work either. I cut the down pipe off, I'm putting in a 4" system and the nuts were froze on the muffler.

I'm being very careful about labeling and bagging parts and fasteners as I go. Years ago, I did that when doing body work and the guys in the shop made fun of me until I put things back together about twice as fast as they did. They spent half their time digging through a gallon can and always had about a pound of stuff left over when they were done.

The gauges are here and I will start installing them next week. Big 50th wedding party for my friend this week end so nothing will be done until that is over.

I'm thinking, this is a great opportunity to replace the hoses while I have everything off and out of the way.

Happy Vets day and thanks Vets for your sacrifice.:cool:

handcannon

11-11-2010, 21:46

Something I've found that usually works for me when removing rusted bolts. Use the WD 40/PB Blaster, etc., then try to loosen the bolt just a little bit. Then re-tighten the bolt, then loosen it again.

Keep working it back and forth, loosening a bit more each time, with occasional applications of your favorite spray concoction. Working the bolt back and forth helps break the rust bond and helps pump penetrating oil into the threads.

Also, if the bolt extends all the way through and has exposed threads on the other side, try to get a wire brush in there. Cleaning up exposed threads will go a long way in getting bolts out without breakage.

This is not a cure-all, but it sure has helped me.

Don

AllThumbs

11-12-2010, 01:43

Thanks Don, The turbo bolts have exposed threads on the back side and that has helped me get two of them loose. I'm putting plenty of goo on them to try to get them all the way out. I let them set over night and will try again this morning. If I can get just a bit of slack, the odds get a lot better in my favor.

Yukon6.2

11-12-2010, 08:52

Hi
I was working on my fuel truck in Big rig repair yard and needed some penetrating fluid,i went and asked for some WD40.The mechanic kind of chuckeled and said here this is 10 times better.He handed me a can of Honey Doo made by Kleen flo.I was totally impressed by it.Worked great on the rusted bolts on the tounge of my trailer.Have used it on manifold bolts and havn't had ant since that i'v had to heat Dosn't have the smell of PB Blaster,kind of sticky like honey.Don't know if you can get it in the states.
Thomas

rameye

11-12-2010, 12:22

Thumbs...

Nothing beats heat!!

3-4 minutes with a small map gas torch is lovely for theose "problem" bolts.

That Honey doo sounds interesting...makes me hungry!

Stay at it...you will hit a stone wall at some point!

AllThumbs

11-13-2010, 12:07

Never heard of Honey Doo, but I'm going to look. Funny, rameye, a friend told me yesterday to get a mapp gas canister and give it a try so I need to go to town and pick some up. I'm down to one nut on the turbo and I will have it.

Bad week for cars at my place. Hit a dear on the ear with the door post of the Corolla two nights ago, blew out the head gasket on the van two days later and the pickup is up on the jack stand with no exhaust system and mostly in pieces. :mad:

Oh well, good thing I'm retired and don't have to be any place soon.

Thanks all for your efforts to help. It is hard learning to be a mechanic when your 68, but you have a lot more time than others which helps no end.

6.5TDTahoe

11-13-2010, 21:52

If your 96 truck has dual thermostats it will have been produced late in the 96 production year. Another thing it will most likely have a #"141" block casting number. Known as as a not likely to crack block. !! If you have the dual stats be sure to install AC Delco/GM 192 degree thermostats.# 131-103. Also the late 96 trucks have a 130 GPM water pump Vs an earlier 87 GPM WP. The 1999/2000 year trucks recieved further up graded water pump capacity ,fan clutch & fan blade to optomize the cooling system.Get those 99/2000 parts from an AC Delco supplier or GM dealer. Good luck with your new baby!!

AllThumbs

11-13-2010, 23:43

Taho, My water pump is marked HO and I do have dual thermostats. I do not know how to find the casting number as I cannot see the rear of the engine due to stuff in the way. I sure would like to know what the fan clutch and fan were although I think the fan is a five blade.

Thanks for the advice. :D

AllThumbs

11-14-2010, 00:20

Believe it or not, I still have the original window sticker for this truck, but I do not know how to tell the manufacturing date. Is that listed on the door post? That would help me determine what equipment is actually on it if it was late model. Also maybe the casting number.

AllThumbs

11-16-2010, 20:45

Real progress. I have the turbo out and can hold the little bugger in my hand. What a chore that was. The back nut on the fire wall side was a beotch. We finally got it out with a 3/8 breaker bar attached to a six point impact socket. Before, we were trying to use a 3/8 15mm socket with an extension and universal. Just too much play. A friend brought over his breaker bar and we were done in seconds.

Next chore, the injectors. Now that is progress! It may actually run again some day.

6.5 Detroit Diesel

11-17-2010, 11:32

i guess you would hate me if i told you that i can have my turbo out in forty five minutes? :D of course the first time i took it out was a three hour battle.

when you do those injectors, it is worth your while to get the injector socket. i picked up one from the dealer for $30 and it was worth it. also, when you are removing the return lines, check any of them for fraying or cracking. after sitting in place for a while, moving them can cause a pinhole leak which you won't find until you get it running again. it can cause some major time setbacks. you can replace the braided line with rubberized ones for fairly cheap.

AllThumbs

11-17-2010, 12:33

Thanks Detroit, I had intended to install all new return lines while I was at it. I'm thinking I could have the turbo out pretty quick now myself. There is something about the first time when you don't really know how things are put together. It just takes time.

Right now, I need a little help. #6 and #8 injectors are turning with the fuel line when I try to get the caps off. Any suggestions about how to deal with that without messing things up? Real good guess would be that whoever put in the last set of injectors was not acquainted with a torque wrench.

I have all of the caps loose except those two and the injectors are turning. So I'm not very far from having that whole mess turned around and put back together.

Thanks everyone for the help. :D

rameye

11-17-2010, 17:10

Thats a tough one...can you fit something along side the injector like a screwdriver to lock it place?

Regardless I can tell you this from first hand experience,,,do not bend those little lines too much.

I did this and apprently broke off a coating or crud or both and fouled 6 of 8 brand new injectors...could not for the life of me figure out what the hell was making my truck run like dog doo.

Boy was I hot after I found out...I sent the brand new injection pump back and asked them to check it...which they did...100% OK.

OK, so learn a lesson from my rookie year

JohnC

11-17-2010, 20:44

#6 and #8 injectors are turning with the fuel line when I try to get the caps off.

Careful you don't twist the fuel lines off...

AllThumbs

11-18-2010, 07:58

I was very careful with it. When the others broke loose, they gave a little crack and you could twist them off with your fingers. There rotated very hard and so I stopped right away and investigated what was going on. Tough call because 30mm is not a common number in most tool boxes. I'll figure out some way to jam it just so I can get it started. I was just trying to loosen them anyway as the injectors are not here yet. I was trying to get everything ready so I could get it done quickly once all the parts were in place. Working on old stuff is sometimes more interesting than you want it to be.

16gaSxS

11-18-2010, 15:33

Hey All;

Keep the faith your making progress. You can also get a Injector socket from snap-on. If you go with the phazar timing gear setr change you water pump out you will have it off any who and if your like me you would hate have to change it 3 weeks later after you reinstalled the old one. If you done the glow plugs do a glow plug over ride that lets you give the glow plugs more time the newer plugs don't heat up as hot or as quick but they don't swell like the OEM glow plugs. :D

AllThumbs

11-18-2010, 18:42

Starting has never been an issue with this pickup. From that, I have concluded that the compression must still be great and the timing not bad. Changing out the water pump has been on my mind. Trouble is, I have no idea how old some of this stuff is. I have put 30K on this truck myself, so it can't be very new. And of course, you are right once you have it out anyway, why not just do the job and be done with it.

AllThumbs

11-19-2010, 13:37

Well, I'm down to #6. I was able to get a Vicegrip on #8 and hold it while I popped it loose. I'm going to have to do some more disassembly to get at the #6. I may be able to slip a wrench between the manifold runners and get some pressure on it.

Always something, but I'm getting there.

AllThumbs

11-20-2010, 15:08

At long last, I got the #6 injector out. I had to tap a chisel between the injector and the head to lock it in place while I loosened the fuel line. I'm thinking of spraying the inside of the two lines that were subjected to some twisting with carburetor cleaner just to make sure I don't have junk in my new Bosch injectors. If that is a bad idea, let me know so I don't make a problem worse.

Next week we should be going back together.

New injectors, new glow plugs, 4" exhaust, Bypass oil filter system and Fluidampr. I'm trying to contact Peninsular Diesel about a new intake so I can mount an intercooler.

It was 12 degrees F this morning when I got up, so I'm not working on the cooling system until spring. The truck is hardly run in the winter anyway and cooling is definitely not an issue until July.

Thanks everyone for the help and suggestions. Life is good.

spiff

11-20-2010, 16:06

When I replaced my injection pump, I flushed out the lines. I did it by disconecting the line from the pump end and inserting the little red tube that comes with the can of carburator cleaner into the end of the line and spraying carb cleaner into the line until it came out the injector end. Then hooked the lines up to the pump and spun the engine untill diesel came out the end of the lines. Then attached the lines to the injectors. I flushed the lines with diesel after the brake cleaner because not knowing the effects of what could have the same effect as ether in the cylinders. Probably over kill, but I like to be sure.

rameye

11-21-2010, 01:00

Thumbs...at this point I doubt if you will want to disconnect the lines from the pump....(uglee job at best)

I would suggest that you remove the glows, leave the lines off the injectors and spin that puppy up, allowing the IP to flush whatever may have gotten in those lines.

Dont do what I did...crapped out 6 outta 8 brandy new injectors.

Enjoy the weather!

AllThumbs

11-21-2010, 07:08

Spiff, I did not intend to disconnect from the pump end, just put the red tube up the injector end and give it a squirt then flush by spinning the engine. That is a good suggestion, and I appreciate it. I assume you had no trouble getting started after that. Obviously a little extra care here pays dividends.

rameye, when the weather is this cold (12F) when a wrench slips it doesn't hurt as much if you can't feel your fingers. :D Thanks for the suggestion. We will start to spool things up pretty quick now.

AllThumbs

11-27-2010, 02:53

Wrong time of year to order parts. Taking forever to get things here. I'm kind of anxious to get going as I have a stretch of good weather coming up and that could end any time.

Where is a good source of power for my gauges? I need two as I see it, one ignition controlled and one light switch controlled. Interesting that in all the threads on gauges, this subject gets the least play.

Thanks for any help.:D

rameye

11-27-2010, 17:16

You should be able to find an unused ignition fuse socket in the panel down by the brake switch.

I modify a spade connecter and slide it right in to the ATC fuse reciever...wire tie it in place...voila!

Better than a tap...however I use a tap to tie my gages into the dash lights...radio was an easy grab.

Enjoy

AllThumbs

11-27-2010, 18:55

I had been wording my searches wrong. When I finally got it right, there was a thread dealing with exactly that subject. I went to town and got some piggyback fuses and could not believe how easy it was. Is this a great place or what?

Thanks rameye. I have all the wire pulled and should be finished with the gauges tomorrow afternoon. Not sure how I am going to drill for the pyrometer, but that bridge will be crossed. I always think the wiring is the hardest. I did an in dash mount as I did not like the toad stool look up on the dash and was too cheap to buy the door post mount.

Injectors got here today so things should finally really start to move.

Thanks rameye for keeping an eye on my project. :D

handcannon

11-27-2010, 20:50

Not sure how I am going to drill for the pyrometer, but that bridge will be crossed. :D

When I installed my EGT probe I found a flat spot on the passenger side exhaust manifold just before the turbo. I started drilling the hole with a cold motor to reduce the risk of burnt fingers. When I estimated I was about half way through I started the motor and finished drilling the hole. The pressurized exhaust manifold blew out all the metal shavings when the bit went through the casting. I then greased up the end of the tap and got it started with the motor off. Once the tap was started I restarted the motor and again let the exhaust blow the metal chips out. Got it done without burnt fingers or the manifold getting too hot.

I did not origionate this way of drilling and tapping the manifold, just used somebody elses idea.

Don

AllThumbs

11-28-2010, 00:12

Thanks handcannon, I will give it a look. I have everything out of the way already so that would certainly be an easy fix. What kind of temps do you run in that location?

rameye

11-28-2010, 08:20

Thumbs..

I dont know how much you want to play with this..but when I drilled mine I took the manifold off and drilled it so the probe "points" towards the engine as opposed to pointing towards the fender. I think I spied Kennedy doing this on his website. I figured with all the mucking around I do I would break or bend that sucker for sure. You can always drop the crossover pipe and weld in a bung on the crossover ( can you tell I prefer pre-turbo temps).
Honestly if you have everything off anyway...taking off the manifold is no biggie.

I'm very leary of a chip getting past that turbo...only takes one for a complete Kaboom!

Anyway with no real engine mods, my average temps seem to always be 100 degrees X my boost pressure +100 degrees. Example.... boost equals 3 psi...pyro equals 400. This is flat driving...once I'm into hills it not quite as logarithmic but close.

Enjoy

handcannon

11-28-2010, 22:17

Highest temps I've seen were between 1100 and 1150. I was pulling a 25' travel trailer, going from about 3000' to 5000' elevation in just over a five mile distance. I was keeping up with traffic at 45 to 55MPH. Coolant temps were at or below 210.

Local easy driving runs anywhere from 300* to about 700*. I don't usually keep too close watch on the gauge while driving light and easy.

Don

AllThumbs

11-29-2010, 03:51

Thanks cannon. rameye, that is a really interesting formula. I'll have to watch that when I get this all together.

AllThumbs

11-29-2010, 03:54

I know the rest of you are going to get a laugh out of this and it is OK at my expense. You forgot to tell me about those little return line thingies on the injectors. Those little *#@$%* took more time to get off than the injectors. My hat is off to any techie that wears Mr Goodwrench pants and has to deal with them on a regular basis.:mad:

rameye

11-29-2010, 06:36

Checkout Kennedy Diesel...he sell a return line kit...they just push on...no clamps.

I rip the old ones right off.

AllThumbs

11-30-2010, 02:47

I already have a kit on the ground here to install and it is not suppose to require clamps. I'm not sure how anyone managed to get those clamps on.

I do have one question. #5 cylinder seemed to be running hotter than the others. Diesel engines are pretty messy by nature, but this cylinder was dry and appeared to have been running pretty hot. Is this common?

#1 cylinder had an injector in so tight I had to use a 4 ft extension on my breaker bar to get it off. I was scared to death I was going to break it off in the cylinder. All came out OK and the treads seem to be intact.

Going back together today.

rameye

11-30-2010, 06:19

Define Hot??

How do you know or think that cylinder is hot??

If you had a bad injector it could certainly cause an anomaly..

maybe cause the injector was hardly moving any fuel it looks dry etc..

The one way I know of to easily observe cylinder temps in relation to one another is to use an infrared heat sensor...pretty cheap these days...anyway point it at the exhaust manifolds etc...

ram

AllThumbs

11-30-2010, 12:48

rameye, Good idea. I have a friend with an infrared camera. That should do it. The injector was dry and the color I would expect on a hot running gas cylinder. Nothing other than that and the engine ran very smooth before I started this adventure.

Thanks

AllThumbs

11-30-2010, 12:50

Injectors in and torqued, glow plugs in, return fuel lines in. Maybe start tomorrow? 18 degrees, 8" of new snow on the ground, wind 40 mph. Tough day to work in the barn but we are finally going in the other direction and putting parts on instead of taking them off.

rameye

11-30-2010, 15:44

Yeah you gotta love it when the parts pile starts to shrink....

I always like it when th eair inlet on th eturbo goes on...thats the bell-weather indicator that I'm outta here!

58 on the East Coast..rain is crappin on my parade..supposed to bad tomorrow..

Fire that sucker up!

AllThumbs

12-01-2010, 12:45

I think I did a no no. When I started this project, the first thing I did was change the fuel filter. It has been nothing but a pain ever since. I was not getting fuel to the bowl of the filter, so I poured clean diesel in the bowl and fired up. The motor ran perfect for few minutes than slowed and died. When I checked, the bowl of the filter was empty. I tried several times to get fuel into the bowl with the lift pump, but it just wasn't happening. I let it set for a few days while I tackled the injectors and glow plugs. That is done now so I'm trying to get fuel again. The pump is now filing the bowl (slowly). I can get a stream of clean fuel out of the water drain, but the filter leaked terrible. I bought another new one and am trying to get flow out of the top into a clear line, but it just isn't happening. What I plan to do next is try to get fuel into the lines so I can cap the injectors. Should I take the glow plugs out while I crank the engine or is that just inviting dirt in? Should I wait until I get fuel out of the top of the filter?

Trying my patience. :mad:

rameye

12-01-2010, 16:47

Sounds like you got yourself all airbound..

1) 4 sure if you are experience priming troubles remove those glows, so the engine can spin up fast! Should be a snap for you by now..

2) that lift pump should be really flowing alot of fuel...that bowl should fill up real fast! mine is like a small caliber nozzle! if I open up the top filter vent, it hits the hood!

3) Why dont you wire that fuel pump direct with some jumpers (fuse of course) to verify pump is getting full power.

So once you know/verify the lift pump is a solid citizen (adequate pressure and flow)....Spin up the engine till all the lines drop fuel. Then attach the lines to the injectors again loosely..spin up till they weep. Then tighten up the injection lines to spec and spin up again....you will see a mighty fine mist coming from the glow holes. Then screw in the glows..plug em in and let r rip. Remove the glow plug fuse while doing all this till the end.

Go 4 it!

AllThumbs

12-02-2010, 03:03

I'm thinking that the filter is not seating. I think the reason it used the fuel out of the bowl was air was replacing the fuel faster than the pump was filling it. I'm pretty sure the system is air locked, but it should be fairly easy to get over that with the engine torn down to this point and me able to get at the injector caps so easy. Now the real question is why can't I get the filter to seat? I'll try again when the sun comes up. :confused:

JohnC

12-02-2010, 10:27

...air was replacing the fuel faster than the pump was filling it....

That doesn't make sense. Said another way, "the engine was using fuel faster than the pump could supply it..."

Sounds like you still have a supply issue, even if the filter is leaking.

AllThumbs

12-03-2010, 00:26

JohnC, I agree that may well be the case. I have a new lift pump here, but I am reluctant to try to put it in at this time because the fuel tank is almost completely full. I would like to get it started and run that tank down as far as possible before tackling the pump.

Yesterday, the second new filter leaked so bad it ran diesel all over the floor. So, I went to town and bought a third new filter, this time an original Stanadyn. That is what has always worked without problems.

The really good news is that I scored an airbox out of a 98 6.5 TD for $5 at the local bone yard. It does look like a major improvement from the old flat panel filter. I'll try the new fuel filter this morning.

rameye

12-03-2010, 08:12

I've had good luck with the Baldwin one piece filter..

Minne. looks cold!

Yukon6.2

12-03-2010, 08:52

Hi
I'm wondering why you are worried about the level of the fuel in the tank?
The lift pump is mounted to the frame rail just about under the drivers seat.No need to worry about fuel level,you may get some fuel running out of the line when you remove the tank side line but it should be minimal if you replace the pump right away.
Good luck
Thomas

AllThumbs

12-03-2010, 13:34

Thanks Yukon, My understanding was that the tank would flood you if you took the pump off. Right now, it doesn't look like I really have a pump problem. We finally solved the filter issue this morning and ran fuel out of the top of the filter to beat the band. We now have the caps on the injectors and everything buttoned up. As soon as I can figure out how to get the turbo back in place, I'm going to fire it up and look for leaks. The injectors practically fogged up the barn when I was turning it over to make sure the lines were full and no dirt plugged things up.

Tomorrow? Sure hope so.

handcannon

12-03-2010, 18:44

DmaxMaverick

12-03-2010, 19:13

I found a way to change the LP without getting the diesel bath. Use your shop vac and adapt the hose to fit into the fuel tank filler neck. This may take a bit of fussing around and inginuity to get the vac hose to stay put in the filler. Once the vac hose is in place turn it on and change the LP. When the supply line is removed from the LP the vacuum in the tank will suck air up through the fuel line, stopping the fuel from draining. You will get some fuel draining out of the line to the motor, but not a diesel bath.

Don

DO NOT TRY THIS WITH A GASSER!!!!!!! Your Shop-Vac may ignite the vapors. Also, this will suck all the previously filtered junk out of the filter, and back to the tank, to be filtered again by the new filter.

If possible, do a LP (or inline filter on other vehicles) at a near empty tank, and put up with a little spill.

AllThumbs

12-04-2010, 06:37

Cannon, that is an interesting idea. I'm wondering if there is a way to get some kind of low pressure vac involved here. I have no idea what it would be but my shop vac will suck the hair off your chest and might not work very well.

DMax, that is my intention particularly since I have no real problem now. It was surprising how much fuel the pump put out once we got everything corrected and working. I can certainly wait until I get this tank used down to manageable levels before trying this. With our current weather, it probably will not be until spring when things a "friendlyer".

Thanks for the tips. Always appreciated.

Now, to find a way to get the turbo back in place. :D

rameye

12-04-2010, 12:05

C'mon Thumbs...that turbo is a 15 minute reinstall!

What was the issue with that lift pump??

handcannon

12-04-2010, 15:18

DMax, I would agree about not using the shop vac on a gasser. But, this thread is about diesel, which is not volatile like gas is. Hadn't thought about sucking crud off the filter/in tank sock.

Thumbs, with my job I've used small shop vacs and found one that had an adjustable wand with it. The wand had a hole on one side of it and had a sleeve that slid over the circumference of the wand. This sleeve had the same size hole in it. By rotating the sleeve and regulating how much of the two holes matched you could regulate the strength of the vacuum.

Don

DmaxMaverick

12-05-2010, 01:45

DMax, I would agree about not using the shop vac on a gasser. But, this thread is about diesel, which is not volatile like gas is. Hadn't thought about sucking crud off the filter/in tank sock..........

Don

I understand. I have Diesels and gassers. I suspect most here do, too. To a lot of folks, the line between gas and Diesel isn't so bold. Changing the LP on a 6.5 truck is no different than changing the fuel filter on many late model gasser cars and trucks (except the connector), and the method, if recommended, might cross over.

If a person wanted to draw a vacuum on the tank to prevent fuel from leaking out the line, there are much better ways to do it. A modified fuel filler cap and a hand operated vacuum pump would be much better, and easier to control the amount of suction, to prevent reverse-flowing the system. Or, do it first thing in the morning, after the tank has cooled overnight. The condensate vacuum should minimize spillage (just don't loosen the cap or start the engine first), and it wouldn't hurt to seal the filler the night before with cellophane wrap.

AllThumbs

12-05-2010, 02:25

rameye, I'm not sure what the original issue was with the lift pump. It certainly does not seem to have a problem now. I can only think something wasn't sealed and the fuel was going on the ground instead of where it belonged.

Dmax and cannon, you got to love this place when guys try so hard to give you good advice. :D

The turbo is on. I was trying to put it back without taking the upper intake off. Big mistake. It is practically impossible for me anyway. Take the upper intake off and it is stupidly simple. I could probably fire up right now, but I'm going to put everything in place before I do that.

Currently I'm installing the 4" exhaust. I can't believe how easy that is going. I looked at the size of that pipe and thought there was no way that monster was going under the truck. So far it could hardly be easier.

10" of snow on the ground Friday night, -6.5F, winter is officially here.:eek:

rameye

12-05-2010, 13:13

watch the clearances...its dead easy till you put it in reverse and give it some juice..

you get a nice drum roll under the passenger floorboard!

the crossmember is the whole job...

Ms54Coupe

12-06-2010, 14:31

Just read this entire thread...I NEED A 6.5!!!!!!!!

Thumbs,

Please let us know how you make out on first start!!!!

AllThumbs

12-06-2010, 18:12

Coupe, That will be soon. I took the turbo off again today because I did not get the heat shield in front of the turbo Saturday. Interesting how fast you can do it once you know how everything fits together. Off and back on. Only problem I had was I broke the vacuum line to the turbo control. It was about 15F and it is old so no surprise there. Don't know how much trouble I will have replacing it tomorrow. I have the rest of the exhaust to put on, the fender liner and the airbox. Then she should run. I have the gauges to finish, which should not take long. The intercooler got here today but there is no rush. There will be no heavy, prolonged towing until May so plenty of time for that.

I did buy a remote mount heat sink, cable and new PMD a few minutes ago so will install that soon. That should give me an spare in case of trouble down the road. Anybody got an easy way to extract the old one from the side of the injection pump? For something that has caused a lot of trouble and has needed to be changed with some frequency, they sure hid it. Does the entire intake manifold have to come off to get it out of there? :eek:

Anyway, at this point, it is all good.

I could not have done it without the help of so many. What a great place when people you will probably never meet knock their self out to help you get it right. Interesting learning experience for an old geezer.:D

rameye

12-07-2010, 05:41

Anybody got an easy way to extract the old one from the side of the injection pump? For something that has caused a lot of trouble and has needed to be changed with some frequency, they sure hid it. Does the entire intake manifold have to come off to get it out of there?
:D

Thumbs I would leave the old functioning PMD in play until it decides to go paws up. Leave it on the pump. Install your new Dtech at the location of your choosing...I have read about 100 suggested locations so far, just keep it away from heat. (Mine is behind the drivers headlight...forward of the battery).

Run your new cable back to the injection pump and protect it so it wont get crap into the connector...some come plugged. Now when the time comes to do the changeover...get yourself a long skinny flathead screwdriver and a some coat hanger or thin welding rod...(non-coated tig)...fancy a hook at the end.

Use the screwdriver to pop off the connector from the pump.....use your fancy hook to grab the wire and pull the connector out from under the intake manifold...it will just clear the manifold.....plug your connector into the new PMD cable....voila!!!

This method was gleaned from the many wise folks on this board that came before me..

AllThumbs

12-07-2010, 07:30

Thanks rameye, As always, you do me well. I was already giving that considerable consideration. The new one is a Dtech with a cable and heat sink. I'll take a look at the headlight mount.

What about a resistor? Do they come with one, need one? If I don't mount this one right away, and there is no real need to, I have plenty of time of get one.

AllThumbs

12-07-2010, 12:58

I'm installing the exhaust today and the pipes fit wonderful, but the hangers look like they be a lot of fun before I'm done. :mad: Keeps life interesting.:eek:

handcannon

12-07-2010, 22:33

Are you installing a Diamond Eye system? That's what I used. Mine went easy except for one hanger. That one I heated up and rebent it to make it fit the way I wanted it. I could have used it the way it was but I was being picky and didn't want it at an odd angle.

Instead of using the clamps supplied with the kit I got the flat band stainless steel clamps. The flat band clamps will make it easy to take apart in the future if needed as they don't crimp the pipe the way the rod style clamps do.

My only complaint about the system is that it is louder than I really like. Under normal driving and light acceleration it is O.K. But, when I'm dealing with a load or pulling a trailer, especially uphill, the interior trim around the rear window vibrates it is so loud. I've located a different muffler online but haven't ordered it yet.

Don

AllThumbs

12-08-2010, 00:45

You are right, I'm installing a Diamond Eye and again you are right, one hanger really does not fit well. I'm trying to decide just what to do with it. It is way too short and causes the pipe to touch the body above the rear axel. It will take a lot more than just heat and bend. I do not think it will be hard to fabricate a fix though. I have a friend who is a very good welder who just loves to tinker with such things and I'm sure he will have it fixed in no time. One other hanger is a little off and might take a little persuasion. I'm thinking all in all it fits pretty well. I'm a little concerned about that straight muffler. I'm a little old to want that kind of loud.

AllThumbs

12-08-2010, 15:57

Well, we are all buttoned up. I finished in time for lunch today. I have not tried to start it because in the cold weather, I broke two of the little plastic vacuum lines. I will buy those tomorrow and then light her up.

When I jacked it up a little higher to finish the exhaust, diesel ran everywhere for a few minutes. I think it had been trapped somewhere when I was trying to work out the fuel filter problem and ran out when the pickup tilted. It stopped after a while and probably didn't amount to a half cup of fuel. It will not hurt it to dry out overnight before I fire it up.

The exhaust is in place. Some of the hangers look a little squirrelly but they work. As long as it doesn't touch the frame or fall off I will be happy.

Tomorrow, get it running and then finish the gauges. After that the bypass oil filter and I will be done until warmer weather.

How difficult is it to drill and tap the exhaust manifold? It looks like it is a lot easier to reach than the crossover pipe and you have some meat there to actually drill and tap. I have a right angle shaft 1/2" drill that should fit in that space easily. Got to run the truck while you do it right?

Maybe getting done will be my Christmas present. The warmest temp I have had to work in is 18F. Hot tub before I go out and hot tub when I return. ;)

93GMCSierra

12-09-2010, 00:24

AllThumbs

12-09-2010, 18:19

Well, too soon old, too late smart. I never gave it a thought and your right, it would have been easy. Why do we never think of these things when they happen?

rameye

12-09-2010, 18:21

What about a resistor? Do they come with one, need one? If I don't mount this one right away, and there is no real need to, I have plenty of time of get one.

Thumbs that should come with a resistor or 2. Pick the one you want to use...one has more umph!! and install as directed..do this before the big moment happens...you dont want to be chasing resistors in the pump valley @ 10 pm on a cold Minne. nite.

Fire it up!

AllThumbs

12-09-2010, 18:27

Rolled over and hit the first cylinder I think. It sputtered and died, but I had the ground off while I worked on it and that first cycle is always messed up at least on my truck. I let it set a few minutes and hit the switch and it took off with a roar, all fire and diesel cackle. Went back by the exhaust and there was a nice deep rumble there. Only ran it long enough to check for leaks. Not runs, no leaks no errors that I can see. Will take it for a spin tomorrow and really see where we are at. Tomorrow is suppose to be the last warm day for a while with -10F expected for the weekend. I have all day so may get pretty far with the gauges.

Special thanks to all of you who have stayed with me on this project and helped. Can't say enough thanks.:)

AllThumbs

12-09-2010, 18:33

rameye, I intend to install the marine upper intake manifold when I put in the intercooler and that will make those things much much easier to reach. I'm not likely to run into very much heat on the PMD until spring so will probably just let that part of the project sit until then. I may not actually change the PMD until the one in there fails. I will have the new one mounted and ready for action when this one goes belly up. It will be in its third year mounted on the pump so don't know how much longer it can last.

You, however, are so very right. Fishing for a little resistor in the middle of the cold winter night is not my kind of fun.

Thanks

DmaxMaverick

12-09-2010, 18:53

If you haven't already drilled/tapped the manifold, do it with the engine idling. I've done a bunch, and this is, by far, the best, easiest and cleanest (internally). Once you punch through, you'll be amazed at how "cool" the exhaust gas is while you drill/tap, and the shavings blow outward (wear eye protection).

AllThumbs

12-09-2010, 18:57

Where is the best place to drill, driver's side - passenger side, 7 - 8?

handcannon

12-09-2010, 20:29

93GMCSierra

12-09-2010, 21:44

I went to the passenger side.

Where the manifold makes it's swing up towards the turbo you'll see a small, raised, square spot on the manifold. That's where I drilled. I was concerned about getting in there with a standard length drill bit, but I was able to reach ok.

Don

I drilled the underside of the passenger side manifold as close to the crossover as I could, though I did it with the turbo off, and the front wheel off easy to reach and I think it gets the actual temp.

DmaxMaverick

12-09-2010, 22:23

I went to the passenger side.

Where the manifold makes it's swing up towards the turbo you'll see a small, raised, square spot on the manifold. That's where I drilled. I was concerned about getting in there with a standard length drill bit, but I was able to reach ok.

Don
This is what I do, and recommend. Works on the 6.5 and Duramax. They both have a square/flat spot in the same place. The iron is a bit thicker there, and better, IMO, for tapping. Don't over-tap, or overtighten the bushing, or it can crack, now or later. Only a couple threads need to engage. Use some silver Hi-temp anti-seize (not copper, or it can weld itself in place).

AllThumbs

12-10-2010, 20:53

Fired the truck up for a test run today. Starts easy, runs smooth as silk. After a little 15 mile jaunt, I pulled into the barn and put down a clean sheet of cardboard so I could check for leaks over night. In the process, I found oil thrown all over the place. The passenger side front drive axle was drenched. Since I did not work with any oil lines or have any oil problems when I started, I just cannot figure out what is going on. I did not have time to look as I was running close on leaving to do other things.

I thought of the oil line to the turbo and the drain line there, but the oil line was bone dry and the return line did not appear to have any amount of oil on it. I did not check that really close, but don't see how it can be out of place enough to account for the amount of oil I was seeing.

Any suggestions?

The good side was there were no diesel leaks at the caps, filter or return lines so that appears solid and of course, it is running as good as you could ask.

Seat of the pants says the new injectors and 4" exhaust made a terrific improvement.

Gauges installed and dash put back together. The senders are not hooked up yet but there is no real rush since is it suppose to be -10 with -20 wind chills tomorrow. EGT is not likely to be a problem not tranny temp.

Hopefully someone will know where to start looking on the oil issue. It just has me totally flummoxed

Thanks for all your help.:).

93GMCSierra

12-11-2010, 00:38

rameye

12-11-2010, 05:50

That happened to me Thumbs...you will find that you screwed up the turbo drain just like 93sierra said.

Now the bad news.....

wait for it........

You will most likely have to take the turbo off again to replace it it, if a re-tighten doesnt make it happen!!!!!.

I replaced the clamps...tightened the dog dirty out of them with a ratchet....and still no good. Replaced that crappy 6 inches of hose with a fresh candidate.......... problem solved.

Sorry...but hey I bet it only takes 15 minutes to get it off!!! :)

AllThumbs

12-11-2010, 10:48

I'm thinking along those same lines, but a little confused. My drain line is a pipe, not a hose. What hose are you talking about? I did not even look at where the pipe goes back into the block. The pipe is really hard to get at to tighten on the engine side so It may not be fastened properly. Given the fixed nature of the outside of the clamp, I don't see how it can be misaligned.

If I have to dig the turbo off again, I'm sure it will not take anything like as long as before because I know how it comes off this time. I was thinking that if I did pull it, it would be an excellent time to drill and tap for the EGT sender.

Right now, there is 10" of new snow, thirty mph wind and heading for -20 wind chills.

Good night Miss Calabash where ever you are, it aint happenen today.

Got to catch up on paper work sometime.:(

rameye

12-11-2010, 14:58

mine is a metal pipe..which maybe had been sawn in half...I dunno...anyway the bottom half is metal going into the block.....the two are conjoined with a piece of rubber hose.

like it said it may be on just mine...check it out..

If it is the case you pretty much have to remove the vac pump in order to get good access...the vac pump will come out without taking the whole thing apart.

good luck

AllThumbs

12-12-2010, 04:15

I work on call and have a pretty full week scheduled (unusual) so I probably will not get much done this coming week. One thing for sure, I'm going to know a whole lot more when I finally get this beast running properly. Actually that is all good to know. If I had taken this thing to a stealership, it would have cost me a fortune and I would never have known the difference. Just have a lighter wallet.

AllThumbs

12-14-2010, 11:29

Finally had time to take a look at things. Did not take anything apart, but looked as close as I could. There is a LOT of oil. I did not check it before I left for my test drive, but I estimate it is down a quart for 15 - 20 mile drive. That may actually make it easier to find. That much oil has to show up. Tomorrow, I will take off the wheel and fender liner so I can really start to dig into things.

My shop manual says to pull off the exhaust manifold and turbo as a unit. It did not do that. Is it common to do it that way? Sure would make getting at those back bolts easier.

My Kennedy computer upgrade got here yesterday!!! :) Getting close to actually getting something done.

Maybe actually find things out tomorrow. :D

rameye

12-14-2010, 15:39

My shop manual says to pull off the exhaust manifold and turbo as a unit. It did not do that. Is it common to do it that way? Sure would make getting at those back bolts easier.
:D

To each his own...that method does not work for me!!

Let me know how it works out for you!!! :)

AllThumbs

12-14-2010, 17:18

Didn't say I was going to try it. Don't see why it would be necessary. I try to never take anything off I don't have too. Some people take off the battery when pulling the turbo. Never could figure that one out. I will pull what ever is necessary to get to the bottom of the problem. I continue to think it will not be that bad to find a leak as big as that appears to be. Just hope it is fairly easy to get at and fix.

Biggest problem right now is the weather. -15 F yesterday morning. Lucky me had to work! Inside, warm, getting paid so I can buy parts. Sometimes work isn't so bad. :)

AllThumbs

12-15-2010, 11:47

Well, now I don't know what to think. Jacked her up, pulled the tire, pulled the fender liner so I could see very well. Had the Favorite Wife (FW) fire it up and goose it. Nothing. Did not leak a drop. Brought the oil level up, put the wheel back on, ran the test drivel. Ten miles out, checked, no apparent leak. Drove back to the barn, no apparent leak. Checked the dip stick, nothing changed.

I hate intermittent problems. Live or die, don't be something in between. Nothing to do but put the liner back on and chug down the road, checking the dip stick often. On to other things.

#8 injector appeared to be wet so dried it and appeared dry when I returned from the test.

New boost gauge pulled negative while in the barn and running it up to check things. When on the road it was mostly neutral except hard acceleration and then only pulled about 2# of pressure. No real test. I may not have that system buttoned up as tight as need be yet. Trying to fix the other vexing problems first.

No pressure in the upper radiator hose, no pressure in the oil fill tube??? Just do not know what to think. I don't think I could have cut anything with the fender liner and if I did, it should for sure leak when the liner is off and running down the road.

Start over tomorrow. For now I have to go to work.:confused:

Ms54Coupe

12-15-2010, 14:23

I'm frustrated for you!

JohnC

12-15-2010, 14:57

Two things I'd do:

First, pull the boot off the turbo and make sure it spins freely.
Second, check the oil level in the front axle...

rameye

12-15-2010, 16:20

John C is always on point here..

Keep in mind that if that turbo output connection is loose then it wont build pressure very well.... I seal my turbo connections with permatex.

As you know in addition to what Johnc mentioned, there are several more reasons (vacuum actuator pod, vacuum pump, broken lines, vacuum solenoid, etc) for not getting boost, once you rule out the turbo.

For a field check...I would wire the actuator rod in place....full boost and drive it a short while.....this bypasses all systems...should be very boosty!

FYI Just for some norms..

Normal light accelerations I show 3 psi

Heavy accelerations it will get up to 9-10 psi...never seen it over that.

As far as the oil leak....if it was the turbo...you would be dealing with alot of oil in a short amount of time.

Enjoy the weather...now we are dealing with your cold!

How bout that metro dome!

DmaxMaverick

12-15-2010, 16:55

John C is always on point here..

Keep in mind that if that turbo output connection is loose then it wont build pressure very well.... I seal my turbo connections with permatex..............

Not so. The oil pressure essentially stops after the spindle bushing. The turbo shaft (spindle) seals should see little, if any, oil pressure. The turbo oil drain is a drain, not a pressure outlet. A blocked drain (or anything that interferes with the gravity flow of the oil) will push oil through the oil seal, and into the intake and/or exhaust. This is why (most all) turbos must have a downward drain, with no traps or upward slopes to the sump. The turbo would be shot if you see any significant oil leak at the turbo, after the oil inlet. The flow volume is relatively very low (or should be).

rameye

12-15-2010, 18:09

Dmax...you are right..

However I was referring to the boost outlet of the turbo...in regards to allthumbs not getting any pressure on his boost gage. I found I gained a pound or two when I sealed it up tight. It was also a reccomendation in the service manual.

sorry for the confusion

JohnC

12-15-2010, 19:01

OK, maybe I need to be more direct....

could the turbo, in it's death throws, spit a bunch of oil out, then stop when it finally failed?

Second, could the oil actually have come from the front differential (now empty and a few miles from total failure) instead of the engine?

AllThumbs

12-16-2010, 01:29

Thanks coupe, As they say, misery loves company.

A) I had the feed line off the turbo when I was turning the engine to see if the fuel caps were tight and there was plenty of oil coming out. I caught it in a jar just to check the flow. Plenty.

B) I'll check the front differential, but I don't think that can be the problem because the oil was mostly above that level. The inside boot to the drive shaft was just soaked.

C) Since I do have boost pressure, though lighter than it probably should be, the turbo must be working some.

D) Back to the barn.

AllThumbs

12-16-2010, 11:07

A) The front differential has plenty of fresh, clean grease in it.

B) The turbo spins easily with my finger tip. I'm not sure how easy it is suppose to turn, but it is not hard to move and the turbo blades are sharp.

C) I wiped everything down I could reach and the point of origin for the oil appears to be the drain tub for the turbo. The only other source would appear to be the front seal, but that seems unlikely.

D) I did find that I had not fastened down the big turbo brace. After I put that in place, there did not appear to be anymore oil bath. I put it together and am going to drive it to work and around for the next several days. If the oil stays under control, I will leave it until spring and better weather.

We had an additional foot of snow last night. Good thing I got the truck going, we would not have been able to get out.

The Metro Doom may be on its last legs. I collapsed once before in the mid 80's and they did some fixing that obviously worked. Since the collapse the other day another two panels have busted so this may be a long fix. In the mean time, Monday night's game will be at the open air stadium at the University of Minnesota. I think I will watch on TV. :D

AllThumbs

12-19-2010, 13:50

EGT gauge installed. I drilled and tapped the square at the base of the exhaust manifold. Much easier to reach than the cross over pipe. There is extra metal there besides and it just feels more permanent. Drilled the firewall under the main wiring harness and put in a body grommet. After struggling with other wiring, it was surprisingly easy.

AllThumbs

12-21-2010, 16:51

Was taking the FW to work. Guy I was meeting completely lost it on the packed snow, did a 180 on my side of the road. I hit his passenger side rear end, took off the tail gate and messed up that quarter panel. Lost my bumper, head light assembly, left fender, left door & mirror, fender jammed the door shut. Landed in a big soft snow bank after doing a 180. Everybody safe, no injuries thank heaven. Just when I had it running like a top!

I have not been contacted by the insurance people yet, but I can smell a total coming and that is not acceptable.

Lost my 4X4 ride right here in the worst winter in years.:(

Rebuilders would call it a ride and drive as I was able to drive it home and put in the barn right with the tools I have been using for the last month.

What a bummer. :eek:

rameye

12-21-2010, 18:21

Oh man thats awful!

I have alot of time invested in that ride!!! you better get it goin!

IS she still " too good to die"??

AllThumbs

12-21-2010, 19:20

Still too good to die as far as I am concerned. Not a spot of rust on it anywhere, everything works. It is a Silverado with everything they came with that year. It still runs like a clock. After they pulled us out of the ditch, I just fired it up and drove it home. The insurance company is already talking total. They said they would make a deal letting me buy it back for a price. I just put $2,000 into parts some of which I don't have on it yet (probably good thing). I can pull the Kennedy computer out and put the old one back, good thing I kept it. I can't pull the exhaust or the glow plugs or injectors (well maybe). I'm going to see what they offer. I was on the internet looking at 4X4 crewcab diesel pickups and they are over the moon.

They want to tow it off and put it in a location where they can "fully" evaluate before deciding whether or not it is a total. I'm a little leery of that I guess I will have to wait till daylight and find out what they are going to do.

To be sure, I'm pi$$ed. I feel sorry for the guy who lost it in front of me. Shame. :(

bobt

12-21-2010, 22:36

No good reason why they can't fully evaluate it at your place. If you plan on keeping it, I wouldn't let them take it away. Might not come back with everything it left with.
Bob

Ms54Coupe

12-22-2010, 06:27

Thumbs,

THAT SUCKS! I'm sorry!!!!! Keep us updated

handcannon

12-22-2010, 11:15

That hurts!!!!! Glad nobody was hurt.

Don't give up easy. My 94 K2500 pickup was a total a year ago and is running again now. A friend of mine at church slid on ice and kissed a tree with the pickup. His insurance totaled it. He didn't feel up to trying to repair it so he helped me get it from his insurance. The front frame horn that supports the bumper needed straightened--$650. New (used) core support, headlight and runnung lights, hood, left fender and inner fender, radiator, coolant crossover, fan, bumper, AC condensor, and engine cooler--$700-800 (don't have an exact figure without digging out the reciepts and adding them).

I still need a grill and to repaint the used parts, as money permits. I could have done these but I put money into upgrading the cooling and exhaust for towing purposes.

I do have a marked title now, but I don't care, it doesn't affect how it runs.

Don

AllThumbs

12-22-2010, 18:12

I spent the day stripping it. Took out the 5th wheel including the rails, gauges that I had just got working, Kennedy CPM, tool box. couldn't take off the new exhaust or the injectors & glow plugs. Insurance company decided to take a look here to see if they are going to total it or not. I noticed that the radiator support had been pushed back into the batteries. I'm not sure how much frame rack time it would take, but I don't think much. I never trade a vehicle, I just drive them to dust and have the bone yard pick up the carcass. If they will give me a reasonable amount of money to fix it, I will probably fix it and keep running. I was not going to leave anything in it that wasn't nailed down in case they did haul it off. Right now, it looks like windshield, grill, bumper, left fender, maybe left front door, mirror, and what ever needs to be done to get the radiator support back in place. It starts and runs same as ever. For all the complaints about non-starts, this was as good a truck as I have ever owned about starting. It will start down to 0 F without a problem and no block heater. I don't do that, but it will if needed.

Adjuster suppose to be here between 8 A and noon so we will see.:confused:

JohnC

12-22-2010, 18:56

Bummer... Did the steering wheel position when going straight change? If it did, could be a lot of frame damage.

AllThumbs

12-23-2010, 07:09

Yes the steering changed - a little. With the radiator support pushed back, it will be hard to tell just what happened until it is stripped to the bones. I don't think the insurance company is willing to do that. The problem is going to be settling on value. From the looks of prices on Autotrader and eBay, these things have about double in price since I bought it. I don't think they are going to like that either. The problem is I'm sure they are going to use KBB and you can't find a truck anywhere for what they are quoting.

I was an insurance field rep for several years so I know exactly how this stuff works which will throw most adjusters as they are used to dealing with people who have no idea what the fine print says or how it works.

We will just have to see what happens when they get here in a couple of hours.