Dual Alternator - OEM parts available?

[mattgrooms]

Sorry if this has been asked/answered before.

I have a 96 6.5 TD HO with a single alternator and would like to add the second one.

Does anyone know of a source for the required brackets, hardware, idler pulley, etc?

If no one sells turnkey kits, can somebody share a parts list that I can use to go shopping at the GM dealers?

Thanks,

Matt

[suburbanK-2500HD]

Hi

Why 2 alternators, big consumtion ??

Du you have the alternator on the right side ?

Does the second one install on the other side, and do you still keep the AC kompressor.?

[DmaxMaverick]

Dual alternators were an OEM option for 1996, so OEM parts exist for a conversion. Availability new may be difficult, as most of the stuff has been discontinued. Idler pulley, tensioner and belt can be had at any parts store. The problem may be sourcing the brackets, and you may have to find them in a wrecking yard.

Or......abandon the entire idea of duals and get a single that will do as good (or better) job than the dual option. I got mine at www.alternatorparts.com (http://www.alternatorparts.com). Excellent quality and service, and less expensive than OEM replacements (and made in USA from NEW parts).

[trbankii]

This thread (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=27156) has some information on the RPOs for the dual alternator.

[mattgrooms]

Hi

Why 2 alternators, big consumtion ??

Du you have the alternator on the right side ?

Does the second one install on the other side, and do you still keep the AC kompressor.?

Thanks suburbank.

Dual alternators are a must for my application. The stock one will be used as designed supporting the entire OEM electric and dual batteries. The second alternator will be a big one; probably a 365A 244 from AlternatorParts.com. The second alternator is dedicated to supporting a bank of six full sized gelled electrolyte, batteries removed from a GEM electric vehichle. This battery bank powers a 5,000 watt AC inverter and some additional 12 volt loads. The inverter can deliver 40 amps of 110VAC, but consumes about 400 amps 12VDC at full load.

This vehicle isolated AC/DC power plant runs all the lights. amplifiers, and computers on my FiestaMobile www.fiestamobile.net (http://www.fiestamobile.net) . Search FaceBook for 'fiestamobile' if the web site is down. FiestaMobile_I is an 85 Toyota pickup with a 60A OEM altenator and a 140A Delco 12Si built by AlternatorParts.com powering the AC/DC powerplant.

We've outgrown FiestaMobile_I and the GMC 3500 we just bought is destined to become FiestaMobile_II.

I don't recall which side the first alternator is on, but the empty spot and the attachment points are on the passenger side. It doesn't interfere with any installed components and the AC compressor is maintianed.

[mattgrooms]

Dual alternators were an OEM option for 1996, so OEM parts exist for a conversion. Availability new may be difficult, as most of the stuff has been discontinued. Idler pulley, tensioner and belt can be had at any parts store. The problem may be sourcing the brackets, and you may have to find them in a wrecking yard.

Or......abandon the entire idea of duals and get a single that will do as good (or better) job than the dual option. I got mine at www.alternatorparts.com (http://www.alternatorparts.com). Excellent quality and service, and less expensive than OEM replacements (and made in USA from NEW parts).

Thanks DmaxMaverick.

Yep, I'll be following the path of dual alternators in the OEM configuration, wherever that path leads.

I'm familiar with the good folks ar AlternatorParts.com. He built the 140A Delco 12Si that currently supports the battery bank in the FiestaMobile. Good people. Good service. I will have him build a big 244 style alternator for this truck once I get the mounting hardware collected.

[DmaxMaverick]

It sounds like you know what you need. Good luck with that.

However....That's a huge load on an OEM size belt. Be sure to use the best. No no-name junk, or the cost savings will come back to bite you. I also recommend, at least, a refresh of the balancer and crank pulley. They are rubber isolated, and that load will shred them if they are original, or much short of mint condition. Same goes for the fan clutch. You'll have a significant load at idle and low RPM's, and cooling may be an issue. Kennedy sells an improved design fan clutch that will do a lot more at those speeds. The list goes on, but don't neglect the cooling...then entire system.

[mattgrooms]

Thanks for the tips. That's exactly the sort of info I need. I know what I need to do to build the show platform on top of this vehicle, but know none of the quirks and weak spots of the truck itself.

Crank pully and balancer, check. OEM, or is there something better that everyone uses?

Gates rubber belts always, unless someone makes better (?).

Kennedy fan clutch for better low speed cooling? Mines an HO with heavy duty cooling package, HD oil cooler; it seems to run nice and cool. Are there some lighter fan designs that offer good low speed cooling and don't weigh a ton?

Fortunately when we're running gown the road we're not doing the light and sound thing so the second alternator is creating almost no load on the drive belt. When we do the lights and sound we're moving at parade pace (2-10 mph). I think cooling may be a factor eventually but so far I can't get the gauge above 185 degrees, even doing a thirty mile stretch of highway at 70.

If you've got more wisdom to dispense I'm all ears.

[DmaxMaverick]

Gates is good. Stay with it.

For the balancer, Fluid Dampr is an option, but an expensive one. New OEM or Fluid Dampr. Pretty simple. Let your horse sense and wallet be your guide.

Fan clutches....The options are very limited. There is OEM (which, by the way, are ALL "heavy duty", or should be), then there's Kennedy's. His are Hayden design, but built to his specification. A unique design only he has. They will engage sooner and more aggressively than any other. Don't settle for anything less beyond OEM.

The addition of an auxiliary electric fan would be a good idea. Idling and low speed under load will generate a lot more heat than what you've seen. Add summer heat and A/C and it increases greatly. There are improved fan designs to compliment any improvement, and Kennedy also has some options to offer. I'm not plugging Kennedy, specifically, but he has the corner on the cooling market. Give him a call for the best advice.

[Yukon6.2]

Hi
I have found that the Goodyear belts outlive the gates ones by far in my vehicals,in my enviroment.They last for years in extreem cold without putting up a fuss.I put new Goodyear belts on my truck when i resurected it 6/7 yrs ago and havn't even had to retighten them,checked them for cracks this summer and were still crack free.My wifes car gets started every day even at -50C and after 7 years use the Goodyear belt was still ok,it's now the spare in the trunk.
I would drive 100 miles to get a Goodyear over any other belt.
Thomas

[DmaxMaverick]

I like Goodyear V-belts, and have done well with them. However, my experience with Serpentine belts hasn't been the same. I generally get double the use from the gates belts, compared to Goodyear and the rest (Goodyear aren't any better than the rest, that I've seen).

[JohnC]

Some years back (10-15) GM produced a "hybrid" work truck. I don't know too much about it, except it had some sort of generator/motor connected to the transfer case that charged batteries and recovered energy on deceleration. No belts, AFAIK, and more capacity. The batteries were also connected to an inverter to run power equipment through AC outlets in the bed.

If you can find more about it, and find one in a scrap yard, it may be better suited to your purpose. I don't know how many were produced or for how long.; the seem to have disappeared form the lineup quietly (Along with 4 wheel steering...)

[rameye]

I'm pretty sure that those that John speaks of had a big old motor/generator on the side of the engine...I think belt driven... that helped in acceleration and assisted with regenerative braking...big Li batt pack under the whole bench seat that they had wired to an inverter also for 110v outlets.

Got a little better MPG than standard....cheap bolt on concept...not too technical.

We had a quick class on these at the FD down at the dealership.

[GMC Hauler]

This has been done for your exact vehicle:

http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/features/dualalt.htm

The parts were available when I did this.

I am still using it today, no belt problems. I run a Gator belt.

Go to GM Parts Direct and punch in the part numbers to check on prices and availability of pieces. If everything is available, it is not too expensive.

I have a stock crank balancer, never needed another one.

No cooling issues. I do have the Hayden fan clutch and a 180 thermostat. If you install a larger than factory alternator, then maybe some form of auxiliary fan, although I would wait on that to do some testing. If you use a GM alternator, additional fan is not needed.

67,000 miles and 5 years on this setup says this works good.

[mattgrooms]

GMC Hauler, are you Roger, the author?

I read about this in one of the books I bought from The Diesel Page when I signed up.

I've already checked with GMCPartsOnline and they say they have the parts still. When pressed if they are GMC parts they simply stated they were 'new'. The inference was they weren't GMC.

Given that it's only a plate, idler, and hardware it's probably fine.

The OEM 105A alternator is a CS130D, and the optional 120A unit is a CS144, so I know that should fit. Do you have any idea if the larger and MUCH better AD244 series alternator will fit?

I can get a CS144 built with 200 amp capacity, but the AD244 is a way better unit (if it'll fit).

I'm definately going to do it, just have to figure out if the AD244 will fit. Also the AD244 does not have the extension on the rear case that the radiator hose support bracket bolts to on the CS130D (& CS144 ?). Do you think it would be significant if the radiator hose bracket was not used?

Another article about doing the same thing to a 95(?) stated you must get a different power steering pump, one that has a remote fluid resevoir. From the pictures in the article you linked to it looks like the stock unit is reachable amd no mods are needed. Can you confirm?

Thanks!!

[GMC Hauler]

GMC Hauler, are you Roger, the author?

I read about this in one of the books I bought from The Diesel Page when I signed up.

I've already checked with GMCPartsOnline and they say they have the parts still. When pressed if they are GMC parts they simply stated they were 'new'. The inference was they weren't GMC.

Given that it's only a plate, idler, and hardware it's probably fine.

The OEM 105A alternator is a CS130D, and the optional 120A unit is a CS144, so I know that should fit. Do you have any idea if the larger and MUCH better AD244 series alternator will fit?

I can get a CS144 built with 200 amp capacity, but the AD244 is a way better unit (if it'll fit).

I'm definately going to do it, just have to figure out if the AD244 will fit. Also the AD244 does not have the extension on the rear case that the radiator hose support bracket bolts to on the CS130D (& CS144 ?). Do you think it would be significant if the radiator hose bracket was not used?

Another article about doing the same thing to a 95(?) stated you must get a different power steering pump, one that has a remote fluid resevoir. From the pictures in the article you linked to it looks like the stock unit is reachable amd no mods are needed. Can you confirm?

Thanks!!

I am Roger, the author. ;)

As far as fitment, My bet is that there is plenty of space to ft any other alternator in there if it will fit in the stock location on the passenger side. You have more room to move with that alternator on the driver side.

You probably do need to somehow support the radiator hose. It will get hot and pliable with full of hot coolant. But, you can make anything you want to do the same job, it's not rocket science to support a hose.

The stock power steering pump still works fine, nothing to speak of. I just filled mine with a long funnel after experiencing a Hydrobost leak. No access issues. I did not do any surgery at all to the stock unit.

Does any local parts store carry that AD224? if so, tell the guy what you are going to do (have the brackets installed) and leave your licensee with him, and take on into the parking lot and do a check fit. He may even join you. Try and go during non peak hours.

[DmaxMaverick]

The 244 will fit. The bolt holes are the same as the 130/144, but it's larger. If you don't have interference issues, it'll bolt right on. It will sit up a little higher, so you may need a longer belt if yours tensioner is at limit. Good call on the 244. I'll never go back to those weenie little dynamos. If you get a little belt squeak at shutdown, don't worry about it. The rotating mass is about 3x that of the OEM, so naturally, it wants to keep going.

The parts store may have a 244, but why get it there? The application will be for HD's and MD's (commercial app's), but the outputs are well short of the previously mentioned supplier. They are also more expensive with an unknown (not really) origin.

[mattgrooms]

FYI - I just ordered the dual alternator bracket idler pulley and hardware from CompNine ( www.compnine.com ). Once it's installed I'll look for a friendly parts counter and see if the AD244 series alternator is a fit. Of course the mounting tabs will fit, but I need to make sure it doesn't sit too high or extend too far to the rear.

After that I'll order an alternator (cs130, 144, or AD244) from Alternator Parts ( www.alternatorparts.com ) and button this thing up.

Thanks for the advice guys. I appreciate it.

Matt - San Antonio