View Full Version : Up from the ASHES
We have moved the DaHoooley thread to the tech section.
It has some good reading and good info but its basically dead as far as a "NEED TO POST TO THREAD"
The current state of affairs is THIS
The 1985 6.2 Block that will be going back into the truck is done and ready for me to pick up at the machine shop.
I will do a chronology of the build and try to point out the slight differences in the two engines as I go along.
I Sold out all the 6.5 iron yesterday to a local fellow who wants to fool with the stuff.
I have one more project that needs an engine and that is the Blazer project that got started this summer.
It seemed far more appropriate to move the old DaHoooley thread to the tech section and keep it as a good read on HOW NOT TO DO IT :eek:
The 6.2 section will be a better place to house this thread.
I will try hard to make note of any and all changes that need to be done along the way to do a 6.5 to a 6.2 swap.
Thanks to all who have offered comment along the way since this all came about a couple weeks or so ago.
Stay tuned and I will start getting Piccy's and such posted Just as soon as the iron is home and on the stand.
OH and YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS this one is going to be YELLLLLLLLOW again.
All the jokes about the CAT yellow not being a great idea, was just that, a fun time yacking.
I had a lot of fun showing folks my GMC pickup with the TINY LITTLE CAT V8 :D
Supprising how many folks bit on that bait. :rolleyes:
Keep watching
Missy
UPDATE
Sold some more parts yesterday (stuff left from Blazers, Burbs and such that needed a new home)
Managed to scrape together enough $$$ to get the parts needed to put DaHoooley back into running shape me thinks.
Will order a set of heads soon.
With all the extra scrap Iron out of the shop area, it has opened up some much needed room. :)
The work load on the big rig is still about normal for this time of year so I dont get a lot of time to work on the projects.
I only work on this sort of stuff when I am fresh and have a clear head.
Late in the afternoon and eavening after pounding the pavement all day is definately not the time of day that I want to start assembling and engine . :confused:
I have seen too many foggy minds fumbling through an engine build late at night and its just not a good thing to do.
Early morning and at least a pot of coffee before I even open the shop door, let alone grab a wrench.
Sure wish the budgit had been enough to get one of those spanky new
"Cast in Canada, machined in the States, genuine imported from China" 6.5 Blocks for this build.
Saw another one yesterday that a shop up Portland way just got in.
DAMN, these blocks are absolutely beautiful.
Clean, smooth with no rough flashing on the casting anywhere.
Bores are perfect and right to nominal size.
The mainline was perfect (guys dropped in a ground bar to check it)
We stuffed a cam shaft in and the little sucker was a perfect fit.
We did not do any serious stuff, like checking the decks for parallel or other such things.
I really doubt that anything is amiss on these.
The pan rails were absolutely smooth as a babies BUTT too.
Unlike the GM Blocks that are usually a tad rough in this area.
All the bolt holes were lightly chamfered too :)
Brass core plugs throughout.
I have not seen any GM blocks that are even close to the fine finish job that these blocks have.
It would really be interesting to know FOR SURE who is doing these.
Someone spent a lot of $$$$$ to set up a casting line and machining line to do these things.
Current price to PDX is about $1550 (with shipping)
Anyway
Enough dreaming and back to the Old 6.2 :D
Soon I will have something to look at here.
Missy
First snag
Ok got off my butt and headed down to the shop to work on cleaning up some 6.2 stuff.
Dug out the only oil pan I have for a 6.2 with the two piece rear main and right off I spot trouble.
The old style pan will not clear the front differential on an IFS 4x4 truck
The new style has a flat area near the LH front of the sump that clears the differential.
Drain plug is in the LH rear too.
I need a pan for an early IFS truck that still had the two piece rear main 6.2
Any help would be great.
Start searching your piles of 6.2 parts
Missy sits wringing her hands
Missy
UPDATE
Finally got a new oil pan from an online seller called Family Car Parts
The pan is stamped, made in Canada :) I was concerned that these things would be made overseas and be crap quaility.
Well its not as good as the factory stuff for sure. Its fits fairly good with the exception of the rear main saddle area where the pan seats against the rubber strap that fits into the rear main cap.
I bolted the pan on with the strap in place and tightened the rear bolts as well as a few up side sides.
The curved area at the back was not even tight against the rubber seal.
OOOOOOOOOOK well lets see now, took an old chisel and ground the edge off round and then went to work on the bead area at the rear of the pan and worked it down to where it seats into the rubber fairly well now.
I am thinking that when the pan goes on for the real deal, that I will goop the rear strap with silicone as well as the pan rails just to make sure that there is not any chance of a leak.
I am not real happy with the overall picture here though and may end up not using this pan.
If I can scare up a factory pan I will definately go that route.
The last thing I need is a miserable oil leak on a fresh engine.
ALSO
I heard from a friend who does diesel stuff that the Silicone that FORD sells for diesels is the real deal for keeping leaks handled
Its gray in color and I am told it is the best stuff to use. ????? About $20 a tube.
Later troops
Missy
DmaxMaverick
10-06-2010, 07:24
Ford uses the same stuff GM does. It's called "The Right Stuff", but may be branded different at the Ford counter. You can also get it in pressurized cans (like Cheese-Wiz), which is really nice, albeit a little more expensive. Even works upside-down.
Subzilla
10-06-2010, 08:01
Yup, some years ago, someone gave me a nice painted pan to replace my stipped out drain plug hole pan. Installed it, started the engine and saw a nice trail of oil trailing down the main seal opening. Ripped it off and compared to the old pan. Had the exact same issue you did. Repaired the stripped hole on the old pan, reinstalled it and threw the other unknown pan in the trash.
Are there different rear main seal sizes on 6.2/6.5's?
john8662
10-06-2010, 12:12
Are there different rear main seal sizes on 6.2/6.5's?
There is a pan for a single piece rear main seal (all 6.5's)., and a pan for the two-piece rear main seals (most 6.2's).
The rear bearing cap arch where the rubber pan lip seal rides is larger on the 6.5, to accomodate the big single seal.
If you set the pans on top of one another you can tell the difference, apart, it's a little harder to see the difference.
J
UPDATE
Well now, it seems that good luck is just not making itself known right yet.
Went over town yesterday afternoon and picked up a 6.2 pan with the right sump.
Expected a mungy pan with crud all over it.
Much to my delight it was clean and freshly painted. All for $45 :)
The delight was short lived though, as when I got the thing home I discovered that it was a 6.5 pan with the larger arch in the rear main area. :(
OOOOOOOOOOOOK so I measured the 6.5 pan and the older 6.2 pan and this morning, called the guy back and explained the situation.
He checked his stock and after measuring some others, calls me back with the news that he does have one thats in great shape. :)
Now to make matters better, he lives fairly close to here and will meet me with the proper pan later today.
********** A note here for anyone interested*************
Using a straight edge across the pan rails, measure to the deepest part of the arch on the rear main area of the pan, the 6.2 pan is 2-1/2 inches and the 6.5 pan is 2-7/8 inches.
As was mentioned, to casually look at these two when they are not along side each other will tell you little.
Its only about 3/8" difference on the arch.
Soooooo Hopefully, this afternoon I will have a nice 6.2 pan with the proper sump and such..
Yesterday I took a look at the pan on the old 87 Burb I have thats to be the donor for the engine and tranny on the Blazer project.
This truck was made in Feb of 87 and has the proper pan shape for the later trucks.
I have not dropped the bellhousing cover to see if the engine is a later replacement or not.
Heck,that would be sweet if that old barge has a later 6.2 engine.
When it was running, it had zero blowby and is fairly clean on the outside.
Many unanswered questions remain with that one.
Eventually I will get the time to get at that beast.
Later
Missy
Update
Joy at last
Met the dude from across town and swapped out the 6.5 pan and got the right one this time around :D :D :D
Great looking pan, squeezed in all the right places and nice and clean.
All ready for a quicky wipe off and a fresh coat of CAT YELLLOW Paint.
Yessssss I am going to give the cat Yellow another go round.
I really loved the nice bright look of the yellow paint scheme on that engine.
With the weekend coming on and rain in the forecast, I am hoping to get to assembling the short block.
YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH EEEEEHHHHAAAAAA. :)
Maybe with a little luck O'll DaHooooley will ride again soon.
Will post more as it happens.
Missy
More bad news
Got to work this morning on the 6.2, getting oil galley plugs and such installed and getting ready to install the cam and the crank.
Wiped out the freshly honed cylinders and gave things a looking over.
Damned number 8 cylinder has a crack in it for sure.
Originally I saw a little spot there and pressure tested the block at 120 PSI with the block full of 180F water. No bubbles at all so figured that it was just a rust spot from sitting.
This last looking over with the cylinder walls nice and fresh showed a definate crack snaking along the typical area that this happens to.
No doubt about it either. The cylinders were honed then the block was run through the hot washer one last time before I picked it up.
The cylinder walls were wiped down with an oil to prevent rust.
The area of the crack shows a perfect rust trail right along its entire pathway.
Looks like its back to the drawing board once again.
I am fresh out of Iron at this point so not sure what to do.
Spent another $250 to get this block decked, cam bearings installed and now this crap.
The chinese blocks are starting to look real good at this point.
Just a sad day for sure.
Will keep ya posted as things develop.
Missy
PONTIACMAN
10-10-2010, 14:25
More bad news
Got to work this morning on the 6.2, getting oil galley plugs and such installed and getting ready to install the cam and the crank.
Wiped out the freshly honed cylinders and gave things a looking over.
Damned number 8 cylinder has a crack in it for sure.
Originally I saw a little spot there and pressure tested the block at 120 PSI with the block full of 180F water. No bubbles at all so figured that it was just a rust spot from sitting.
This last looking over with the cylinder walls nice and fresh showed a definate crack snaking along the typical area that this happens to.
No doubt about it either. The cylinders were honed then the block was run through the hot washer one last time before I picked it up.
The cylinder walls were wiped down with an oil to prevent rust.
The area of the crack shows a perfect rust trail right along its entire pathway.
Looks like its back to the drawing board once again.
I am fresh out of Iron at this point so not sure what to do.
Spent another $250 to get this block decked, cam bearings installed and now this crap.
The chinese blocks are starting to look real good at this point.
Just a sad day for sure.
Will keep ya posted as things develop.
Missy
Missy i have a shop in palm beach FL and 85 percent of the 6.2`s and 6.5`s that came through the shop over the years were cracked in the rear cylinder.
I was gonna say to check the block before putting a dime into it but in a way i figured id be acting or sounding like a knowitall....
Plus you then woulda been the lucky one of 15 percent where it is not cracked ,but regardless i believe there all gonna crack eventually down the road and arent worth anything except scrap iron weight anyway....
Definatly with ya on getting any aftermarket , chinese, taiwanese , Mexican, martian, basically anything cast anywhere as long as you can establish the blocks had the upgrades.
Please dont waste anymore time on old factory junk as i can attest their all junk ,cracked or waiting to crack so you just need to save the bucks and get a updated block if you insist on having one of these engines dependable.
I wont even go to my spiel about how many blocks i had where the main registers let loose and the wasted crank situation because those engines are just to thin and to weak !!!!!!
Well that's all i better say but good luck and get yourself the updated block before ya have a heart attack!!!!!!!
pontiakman-teddybeardude:D
:rolleyes:
The later GM 6.5 blocks had some issues with cracked #8 cylinders but, I have never seen a 6.2 Block crack a rear cylinder.
The only issues I have ever seen with the 6.2 has been the main web cracks.
This last ditty caught me completely off guard.
Just can't really afford the new aftermarket blocks.
If I keep droppingm a few hun here and there, it wont be long till I could pay for one though.
Later
Missy
PONTIACMAN
10-11-2010, 12:09
1...The later GM 6.5 blocks had some issues with cracked #8 cylinders but, I have never seen a 6.2 Block crack a rear cylinder....
2...The only issues I have ever seen with the 6.2 has been the main web cracks.:eek: Ohhh my gosh the only issue!!!!!
3...This last ditty caught me completely off guard.
Just can't really afford the new aftermarket blocks.
If I keep droppingm a few hun here and there, it wont be long till I could pay for one though.
Later
Missy
Reply to 1...Well you got an older 6.2 and its definatly cracked in the rear cylinder so im sure you can conclude your not the first this has happenned to.Like i said i had /have a shop for 20 years and saw all blocks with cracks in all the locations just because i was around them i guess.
Reply to 2... 'The only issue was mains cracking'???? I know people fall for these diesels( like romantically) but if this was a gas engine that got cracks and blew cranks it would have the worst reputation in the world.
Reply to 3...Caught off guard maybe but now ya know that big problems exist.... Plus youve been sinking good money after bad on how many engines now?????
Please find a good aftermarket block even if dahooley has to sit a bit!!!!
Good Luck...PONTIAKMAN,teddybeardude;)
In actuality the 6.2 and 6.5 overall ran an enormous amount of miles without much issue.
The only ones we ever hear about are the ones that fail.
NOW
The engine that came from My DaHoooley in the first place was a flawed, late casting (97 production with large outer bolts and the large squirters)
The one I just took out would have been fine and its downfall was only due to having been decked twice on one side.
That block was otherwise perfect.
I have personally run 6.2 engines for over 300,000 miles and never did squat to them other than change the oil.
The 94 Burb I had was purchased with 230K on the clock and it let go at 235K and I did an overhaul and that was just a refresh with some new heads.
This pile of BS with the DaHoooley is just plain and simple trying to make due with cheap old junk.
That 6.2 engine that I was going to use was an 82 Block and the rig had near 400K on it that it came from.
Just can't really say too much in the way of nasty smack with those numbers.
GM never figured these engines to go that far.
If I can get an engine up and going here that gives me 100K that will be fine.
I have owned the truck for 3 years and only put 7000 miles approx on the beast.
Anyway.
I have no clue as to what happened to the original engine that was in the truck as I bought it with number 2 which was a Good Wrench crate engine.
The early 97 engines up until the late 99-2000 stuff was really shakey.
The AMG stuff is good though.
Missy
Back in the ball game
Called the folks I got the new pan from, got a call back this afternoon and the fellow had a great 6.2 block with very little time on the clock it apears.
No ridge and the bores are perfect.
Bearings were still with the block and look like new.
Decks are flawless.
Whined a lot while we negotiated the price and I got it for $275
The fellow had a few NOS GM 506 blocks too and wanted $400 each
These were new, never installed GM blocks.
Sadly these were all the last of the crap ones that GM turned out before the AMG takeover.
Casting dates placed them in the 98-99 area.
I would not touch one of those suckers on a bet.
Anyway, my new little prize has a julian date of D-3-00
I take this as April 3rd 1990
Two piece rear main with neoprene rear main seal.
This engine came from a GMT400 truck too as it still had the right angle filter adapter on it.
I have a good feeling about this one. No particular reason but, just feels good.
Will no a lot more once I get it washed up.
Would be great to know its history. The fellow told me that its been sitting on the shelf in the warehouse for nearly 15 years.
Looks like about all it needs is a wash up and toss the parts in it.
More as I know whats shaking.
Later troops.
Missy heads to bed a little more content than last night. :)
Robyn
Got the mungy little monster on the stand and went after it.
Got the soft plugs out as well as cleaned the decks well.
Honed the cylinders lightly with the bottle brush hone to clean them up.
All looks real good so far.
Checked the cylinders for wear and fit of the new pistons. Looks to be right around .0045" on the back two and around .004" on the rest.
Still need to hot wash the thing really good, but so far things are looking good.
The cylinders are far better than the other 6.2 block, so we are ahead of the game me thinks.
Will not know too much more until I get the thing all cleaned up.
Maybe tonight, but I am not holding my breath. (My ambition and patience is proportional to the time that I have been awake :eek:)
later troops
Missy
PONTIACMAN
10-12-2010, 16:11
Got the mungy little monster on the stand and went after it.
Got the soft plugs out as well as cleaned the decks well.
Honed the cylinders lightly with the bottle brush hone to clean them up.
All looks real good so far.
Checked the cylinders for wear and fit of the new pistons. Looks to be right around .0045" on the back two and around .004" on the rest.
Still need to hot wash the thing really good, but so far things are looking good.
The cylinders are far better than the other 6.2 block, so we are ahead of the game me thinks.
Will not know too much more until I get the thing all cleaned up.
Maybe tonight, but I am not holding my breath. (My ambition and patience is proportional to the time that I have been awake :eek:)
later troops
Missy
Whenever putting one 6.2 or 6.5 together i would wonder if the rear cylinder was cracking when tightening those rear head bolts especially after seeing so many cracked ...
I KNOW , I KNOW you only saw the 6.5 problem until this last 6.2 block, but i was the only dummy in my town that would touch anything diesel and when you got 3-4 a month coming in for head gaskets per month you see really whats cracked on both blocks and at the time i think the 6.2 weaknesses were a little under reported as they predate Internet explosion days if you know what i mean....
I used to leave that particular one / (HEAD BOLT) a little shy and only go about 75 percent of the recommended torque or twist and head gaskets themselves i never had a come-back.
Head studs are definitely some good insurance which i hope your investing in and you would recomend yourself , cause like i said i never had anyone come back complaining of a leak after i was done, and i used to leave that rear bolt a little shy of what it was supposed to be to prevent the cyl from cracking...
Good luck, hope your lucky with this one!!!!!:D
;)PONTIAKMAN aka big teddybearster;)
Thanks for the good vibes :)
The real issues with cracked number 8 cylinders came into the forefront during the 97-99 time frame in the 6.5
I imagine that any issue can and did come to pass at some time even with the 6.2
They used to say that the "OLD RED BLOCKS" were bullet proof, NOT SO.
I have seen bottom ends of red blocks all cracked to hell. Pulled one down once and the center main totally fell out on the floor.
So far so good.
This block had soft plugs that did not even have rust on the inside surfaces yet.
Judging by the little wear in the cylinders, it was 100K miles or less.
Ordered up a chemical red dye crack check kit. Going to hit the spots in the rear cylinder and a couple other places, JUST because I can.
Missy
PONTIACMAN
10-12-2010, 22:00
Thanks for the good vibes :)
The real issues with cracked number 8 cylinders came into the forefront during the 97-99 time frame in the 6.5
I imagine that any issue can and did come to pass at some time even with the 6.2
They used to say that the "OLD RED BLOCKS" were bullet proof, NOT SO.
I have seen bottom ends of red blocks all cracked to hell. Pulled one down once and the center main totally fell out on the floor.
So far so good.
This block had soft plugs that did not even have rust on the inside surfaces yet.
Judging by the little wear in the cylinders, it was 100K miles or less.
Ordered up a chemical red dye crack check kit. Going to hit the spots in the rear cylinder and a couple other places, JUST because I can.
Missy
The thing i despise the most about these engines is they will run perfect, quiet, and smooth right until the second before the crank blows out and unlike any other engine give no hint that they are about to detonate to hell.
typically any other motor will start out with a morning rod knock which will turn into a knock down the road and you will have some time to decide whether you want to repair something or just run it until it dies.
these GM diesels however can be idling smooth as a kitten on heroin and without any abnormal noise just decide to blow apart a second later.
Usually the bearings are like new, cylinders show nominal wear so if it weren't for the cracks allowing for these instant catastrophic failures these probably coulda been million mile engines if they were built a little stronger via more metal or more nickel or whatever as in a better alloy cause it almost seems as if the blocks are just brittle.
i`d love to find a decent truck minus the engine as i wouldn't trust any unless they were the late updated and start from scratch with a improved block and build it on that foundation hoping their not blowing smoke about really doing the so called upgrades.
If the new block is as advertised i would have no beef buying it and as i said if seeing how the bearing wear potential is so good i have no doubt minus any cracking the engine and truck would last a long long time....
Im talking 750,000--1 million miles or probably the rest of my driving days.
Myself couldn't see throwing good rods,cranks,pistons, in any pre improved block however because i just cant stand not knowing when something is gonna blow apart especially pulling a trailer and stranding the family for some rapists and murderers to leave opportunity for.
Then id be forced to kill such scum all because i knew i had a engine waiting to go , knew it could go at the worst opportunity like a family trip and with my luck it could only happen that way , so for myself the family and even the pets i plan on building a 6.5 soon but it ain't gonna be no used blocks with history of even the so called good cracks that just leave the crank swinging in the wind.....;)
I gotta say if i wasn't in a position to be able to afford a new improved block id much rather use a 350 gas or whatever because their at least tested over the years and generally wont leave you dead unless your a total fool and try to run it 500,000 miles on the original timing chain with plastic cam gear or something equally stupid , like forgetting to check the oil for a year ,and ignore the idiot light shining in the face because somebody said they were for idiots only.
Gauges are great for people who pay attention but sometimes a simple idiot light is what saves an engine because who can not be woke up to that glaring red light ?????
Anyway good luck again and keep us up-rived on your 6.2 build...
Ohhh ,,,,,the reason for my post even though i totally forgot.:rolleyes:
HAVE YOU CONSIDERRED A MAIN GIRDLE TO TIE EVERYTHING TOGETHER CONSIDERING PRESENTLY THE BLOCK HAS NO MAIN SADDLE ?REGISTER AREA CRACKS?????
I don't know if they actually help as i don't remember anyone who used one but i think if i was building a old block i probably would give one a test for the extra few bucks!!!
Any thoughts or you could make your own out of some iron leaving a little wiggle room so theres no stress or pulling on any specific areas...
Seems like if you glued one in first with silicone adhesive ,let cure then had studs with nuts to finally secured bracing you would have something like the stiffeners they use now.
The fact they now use a girdle leaves me thinking they might still have cracks in the improved alloy block during tests and needed this as extra extra insurance, but I'm speculating of coarse.
But then you gotta be careful with pan clearance so ??????:confused:
:confused:Good luck sweet dreams ,good night ,and sorry for the run on post.;)
;)PONTIAKMAN, teddydude;)
And I thought my soap box was a tall one :D
Let me just sum it up this way.
Yessss these engines have seen some issues over the years, but most of the lot run a long time and give great service.
I have owned a few new ones back in the day and the only issues at that time were the electronics on the 94 and later ones.
The engines that I have had issues with were in vehicles that already had a Metric buttload of miles on them when they came to my stable.
My personal feeling is this, if the block is crack free and has 100K miles or more on its clock, the likelyhood that it will stay crack free is very good.
The major reason for the cracks IMHO is Green castings or other issues with the metalurgy.
I have seen these castings with cracks at the register fit on the mains that have spread open .020-030" .
This sort of thing is simply a dead give away that the block has been moving around and "Settling/stabilizing"
A casting that has been through 100-200K miles of heat cycles is done shifting.
IMHO the little steel stud girdles that have been/are sold are simply window dressing to make folks feel warm and fuzzy.
They may help the front to back stability but this is not whats breaking these engines.
The new engines from GEP have a solid cast girdle that encompasses the entire lower end structure with all five main caps cast integral to the girdle.
The subject of "Why these blocks (GM stuff) do what they do has been beaten to death, here and on every diesel forum on the web, and to date there has really been no absolute proof as to what is happening.
I have worked in the machinery industry and worked with castings, I have seen what "Green" castings do when they are duty cycled.
The only sure way to stabilize a casting is to stress relieve it in an oven before it is machined.
Once this is done the odds are pretty good that the thing will survive.
The other issue is probably the metalurgy..
There are still the little understood dynamics at work too, and by this I am talking about the harmonics that come from the diesel engines particular fireing stresses.
These same blocks had they been used for a gasoline engine possibly would have survived without any issues.
Then there are those in the crowd that still believe that the 6.2 and 6.5 are just converted gas engines.
Hmmmm, been there and flogged that too.
Actually one engine that was a converted gasser was the power stroke.
These engines were developed from the 440 International engine.
The 6.2/6.5 started from a clean sheet of paper on the drawing board, Ummmm well a clean screen on the CAD if you will.
We will never solve the issues here and the 6.5 will settle into history.
The demise of the HMMWV from the military will likely seal the fate of the new P400, unless there can be found another market.
The task at hand here is to get an engine back together that will give me a reasonable return in the way of serviceable miles of use.
I am not going to go to any extraordinary measures here as it is simply not needed.
If this latest piece of Iron proves to be sound the results should be favorable.
Afterall, the first attempt was a failure only because of a NON proven gasket.
Had that engine been able to accept the Felpro gasket on both sides there would have been zero issues and this thread would not be here at all.
Anyway
I will keep the posts coming as this thing takes shape over the next few weeks.
Missy
85-m1028
10-13-2010, 11:36
Pontiac kinda reminds me of the nurses at the hospitals, who see nothing but the patients! I suppose the diesel page is that way too in general. I guess it's hard to make those points without sounding like negative nelly all the time. Even if they are valid points, but after reading his post I just want to yank my 6.5 and light it on fire!!
Now I know it's going to explode any day now! I just know it! Especialy since my pickup is looking at 300,000 miles. LOL! I kid of course! or do I? I don't know anymore..
Robyn- what are your thoughts on the metalurgy of an engine that had 5000 miles put on it then pulled and not really run ever since? it's a 97!!
Would that give it some time to relax? and if you had a block like this, essentialy brand new what steps would you take to ensure "as much as possible" the longevity of this block??
The situation you are speaking of does absolutely nothing for or against the engine.
Resting in the garage makes no difference to that casting after its machined.
A casting just as it comes from the foundary is considered to be GREEN
Not as in color, but like a fruit that is not ripe.
A green casting is going to do all sorts of wierd crap until its cured.
years ago, they took fresh castings and stress relieved them in an oven, then tossed them outside to RUST in the rain for a while.
Years ago when I was in the machinery building trade, we used to send our "green castings to the oven. They would run the temperature up to 800-1000 F and allow the heat to remain on for about 4 hours, then the heat was switched off and the castings allowed to cool of slowly to room temperature.
These castings were then taken in, cleaned and machined.
When you start machining on the casting, it relieves built in stresses and things can move around.
This is why the stress relieving process.
Castings made today are cured chemically, I am told, and not aged as was the practice of years past.
As a casting goes through its initial duty cycles, it moves and and stretches if you will.
The 6.2/6.5 castings that puzzle me the most are the ones that I have found with the large separated cracks at the main cap register fit area.
These cracks are very large and this to me says that the block material was moving, curing and changing shape.
Most main web cracks I have seen are very thin, almost invisible and only show up under close scrutiny.
Now I have seen the masive cracks that go all the way though the main webs and up into the cylinder wall area.
I have even seen an entire main web fall out when the crank was removed :eek:
All these things are just what is seen out there on the major playing field.
The numbers of out and out failures are still relatively small as compared to the total number of engines produced.
Another thing tom consider is the fact that there are a lot of thgese engines out there with cracks that will run 200K miles never give even a whimper.
The whining starts when it finally comes apart for a rebuild and the owner/mechanic sees the cracks and has a hissy fit.
The crack that makes me worry is the number 8 cylinder wall issue.
Ah yessss
I am not going to lay awake nights worrying that my 6.2/6.5 is going to fly apart suddenly while driving.
Better things to do than that.
Missy
Update
Got out this morning and went after the block with the hot washer.
Really got after this puppy and shot the super hot high pressure water though all of its orifices through and through.
Blew all dry with air and then got after it with a very careful EVIL eye.
So far I have found zero defects anywhere. (That make me nervous)
A little rust etching in a couple cylinders due to sitting with a little water.
Overall, I will give it 99%
Cam bearings look plenty good enough to leave in place.
Since I am not doing any machining there is no chance of crap getting into an oil passage.
All wrapped up and ready to start assembly.
The bearings left in the block were all in good order and stamped as being made in Jan 89
The block is a 90 so this figures out right.
The decks look really good with no errosion anywhere.
Hope to get back to it and start assembly in the next couple days or so.
More info as it happens
Missy
UPDATE
Got back to the DaHoooley engine now.
The bores are fine and measure out good too.
The crank is in as is the cam too.
The new pistons I aquired are a tad tight so rather than tear the block back down and hone it again, I am using a set of used pistons made up of a couple sets.
Sort of mix and match.
Got thall the bore sizes down on paper then I sorted through the pistons.
After measuring all the pistons I came up with the following set.
Hear is how they will all end up.
Cyl
1-.0045
2-.005
3-.0055
4-.0055
5-.0055
6-.0057
7-.0065
8-.0067
Really wanted to have .0045 on both front ones then the .0055 on 2-6 and then .0065 on 7-8 but the numbers were not going to come that close.
What I have will work quite well and the sucker will not seaze up if it gets a tad warm
The new pistons were at .0035 for 1-6 and a very scant .004 for 7 and 8
Just too tight for my likeing.
Will keep the new ones and maybe use a set on the Blazer project later on.
So the Kids came over and and had dinner and we got a bit busy, but all in all I am pleased with what did get done.
Later troops
Missy
UPDATE
Sunday the 31st of Oct 2010
Got busy this morning and carefully rechecked the one set- PLUS of pistons and selected the ones that are going into this build.
There were two that were still on other con rods and that needed to come off and be cleaned up. YUK what a dirty pair they were :eek:
These diesel pistons take a fair piece of time to get all the carbon buffed off and the ring grooves clean out properly.
Soooo the whole set are all assembled onto the rods now and ready to go into the block.
The rest of today I am going to spend sitting on my BUTT. Had some sort of flu or crud most of the week and am just now starting to feel like my usual scrappy self and am going to just relax.
Going to the Kids this eavening to take the 2 grand kids out for the trick or treat.
Weather is going to be decent, so the little guys should have great time.
Later troops.
Missy
At this point it wont take too long to finish the short block up.
Wish I had a fresh set of heads sitting on the bench, would be nice. :(
Missy+
UPDATE
Went down to the work shop this afternoon and got some stuff done on the DaHoooley engine (finally)
I finally got some "Dye check" materials and checked a suspicious area in the number 8 cylinder.
I bought the Zyglo brand of 3 parts crack check materials. Cleaner, penetrant and developer.
All is well, in fact I went over and checked the very supicious spot in the other 6.2 Block that I decided not to use. ALL good and NO cracks :)
So anyway, I putzed around a while and got the new brass soft plugs installed.
Planning now for Sunday to try and get the Pistons and rods installed and get the rest of the short block done.
Dinner time and family is arriving
Later troops
Missy
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.