94blue

[94blue]

Hey guys,

My 94 sub stalled a few weeks ago and recranked. Stalled a few more times and sometimes recranked. FSD maybe but checking filters first. I took out the very dirty fuel filter today per manual. Did not drain the bowl, just changed the element. Bled the air and drained the water per water valve too. Thought all went well and now no starting. It would start last weekend but would stall just sitting in the driveway at various times. I do have the troublehooting guide but it does'nt quite address this. Did I get air into the IP? I've checked to make sure the filter is not leaking, etc. ?????

[markelectric]

Is the lift pump pumping?

[norm]

Some questions to start narrowing things down:
1.How did you bleed your filter?
(if by lift pump using key, then oil pressure switch might be bad)
2.Any trouble codes set?
(some bad Injector Pump conditions will set codes)
3.How many miles on truck?
(maybe IP is still under warrantee - although 11 years might be up for you)

(searching posts for this topic will provide much information)

[94blue]

I KNEW I'D FORGET SOME DETIALS.

LIFT PUMP IS PUMPING. NO CODES. I HAVE OWNED THIS TRUCK 6YRS W/O ANY PROBLEMS. ONLY DRIVE IT ABOUT 5K A YEAR. IT HAS 254K ON IT AND ALL STOCK.

WHAT GETS ME IS IT WOULD CRANK UP AND RUN A WHILE LAST WEEKEND AND I HAVE'NT TAKEN IT OUT OF THE DRIVEWAY. I CHANGED THE FUEL SEPERATOR/FILTER TODAY AND NO START NOW.

THOUGHT FSD AT FIRST BUT THE FILTER WAS DIRTY ENOUGH THAT THOUGHT IT COULD BE THE PROBLEM.

THANKS.

[rameye]

Ok, so you changed a really cruddy fuel filter but DID NOT drain or clean the bowl?

If i'm hearing you correctly is there a chance you sent dirt into the pump and injectors making your trouble shooting more complex?

Just thinking out loud, no expert here.

[94blue]

Sounds like it. Ofcourse the owners manual,a CLYMERS manual, mentioned doing that during the element change out. I actually wondered that myself but could'nt find any info on how to drain the bowl.
Yes I think I've created another problem unrelated to a PMD. Now I've got to sort the "no start" before I can determine if I've got a PMD problem or if my problem all along was the dirty filter.
Any thoughts welcome.

94blue

[rameye]

Ok that being the case..

I would hope the IP would put up a code if it saw crud in the fuel...this is a maybe...however seeing as it's not running this probably wont happen.

Next, verify that the lift pump runs by cracking open the water bleed while cranking...it really should stream out of there. I was reading your post carefully and couldn't help but wonder if while cranking the lift pump was working but when your key was turned to the run position it stopped running, its two different circuits on mine.

Assuming that the crud didnt mess up the IP and your lift pump operates in the run position (OPS bypass) I think it's time for you to bleed air which which may have gotten into the system. Without cranking, unscrew the filter cap and let the air bleed out, hit the water valve also, then i bleed where fuel enters the IP, then while cranking go for the injectors.

I've read here that 2 bled injectors will start your engine, i'd gp for as many as reachable (6)

All this fun while trying to hold down a full time job...fun eh?...let us know how you make out.

[94blue]

posted 01-04-2005 02:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok that being the case..

I would hope the IP would put up a code if it saw crud in the fuel...this is a maybe...however seeing as it's not running this probably wont happen.

Next, verify that the lift pump runs by cracking open the water bleed while cranking...it really should stream out of there. I was reading your post carefully and couldn't help but wonder if while cranking the lift pump was working but when your key was turned to the run position it stopped running, its two different circuits on mine.

Assuming that the crud didnt mess up the IP and your lift pump operates in the run position (OPS bypass) I think it's time for you to bleed air which which may have gotten into the system. Without cranking, unscrew the filter cap and let the air bleed out, hit the water valve also, then i bleed where fuel enters the IP, then while cranking go for the injectors.

I've read here that 2 bled injectors will start your engine, i'd gp for as many as reachable (6)

All this fun while trying to hold down a full time job...fun eh?...let us know how you make out.

YUP, WEEKEND REPAIRS IS MY OTHER PROBLEM TO THIS. I SEE YOU HAVE SOME LATE HOURS.

I'M PRETTY SURE THE LIFT PUMP IS PUMPING. LOTS OF FUEL FROM THE WATER VALVE AND IF I STOP THE CRANKING, YOU CAN HEAR THE LIFT PUMP RUN FOR A LITTLE WHILE UNTIL THE IP OR FILTER IS FULL AGAIN. THEN IT STOPS. WHEN THE TRUCK IS NOT RUNNING, AND YOU TURN THE KEY TO RUN THE PUMP WILL NOT RUN UNLES YOU HAVE TRIED TO CRANK IT THOUGH. I'M ASSUMING THERE IS NO NEED FOR FUEL UNTIL IT CRANKS OR RUNS SO NO NEED FOR THE PUMP TO PUMP??

WHAT KILLS ME IS I CHANGED THE FILTER PER THE MANUAL. ANOTHER FELLA THOUGHT IF AIR GOT TO THE IP AND MY PMD WAS ALREADY "WEAK" OR BAD, THE AIR PUT THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN OF THE PMD. DON'T KNOW??

THE FUEL LINE TO THE IP I'M ASSUMING IS COMING OFF OF THE SEPERATOR? HOW EASY IS IT TO REACH. WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF JUNK OR WATER GETTING TO THE IP?

WILL THE IP BE DAMAGED OR HAS IT BEEN?

WHAT CAN BE DONE TO BLEED THE WHOLE IP AND SYSTEM SO I CAN START FROM SCRATCH?

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

[JohnC]

If the engine runs and there's no fault introducing air into the system, then it will bleed itself. Once all 8 cylinders are firing smoothly, it's done...

[rameye]

94 Blue-As far as you hearing the pump running after your done cranking for a little while that may be due to the oil pressure switch sending power to the lift pump until the oil pressure you built up by cranking drops off. This is a good thing, if this is whats happening.

I agree with moondoggie, that it is very doubtful that sending air to the IP killed a possibly failing PMD. I beleive these units die from heat exhaustion not air lock..no harm no foul in my opinion on the PMD.

The fuel from the seperator/filter enters on top of the IP, mine had a rubber hose that I loosened while I had the lift pump running, any way I waited until fuel flowed from the hose assuring all air between the filter and IP was gone). This may not be a necesarry step but it doesn;t hurt either.
I wired the lift pump direct (temporarily) using some wire and a switch to the battery (dont forget to fuse it too!)

Next I do one injector at a time and crack them open at the fuel fitting while someone cranks it over until fuel weeps from the connection. I do this like a brake bleeding procedure. I do the injectors I can reach (cause I'm lazy) as I posted earlier she may fire with as little as two bled. Pull the glow plug fuse before doing this, no need to kill the batteries more than necesarry.

Dont overcrank, give the starter a nice 5-10 minute time out between injectors.

When you got fuel from each injector, plug in glow plug fuse and let her rip. It'll run like dog doo at first, then level out after a couple of minutes...expect a smoke screen from the exhaust.

I think JohnC may be referring to getting a little air in the system due to a filter change, he's right, however if you are air locked with no start, which is what we're trying to rule out, it may not correct itself.

Someone else please point out anything I missed.

Let us know..

[94blue]

Thanks for the info,

As usual I'll have to wait until this weekend to get back on it. I'll keep you informed and thanks agian.

It looks like there is plenty of things to check out.

94blue

[Spindrift]

It's interesting to me to see the variability people experience in bleeding their fuel systems. I just finished changing out my injectors. Changed all eight at one time, tightened everything up, turned her over and she fired off after no more than three or four cranks. I'm guessing that this means my IP and LP are both healthy...and that's a good thing.

BTW, thanks to JK for his injector installation kit. It's way cool. I would rather peel off all twenty nails from my fingers and toes, then soak my feet and hands in battery acid, and be left with bloody stumps, than to install those fuel lines using those dang OEM clips.

[MTTwister]

Whoa Spindrift - tell us how you really feel. tongue.gif

There's a mental picture I can live without. :eek:

I'll bear the install kit in mind, when the time comes..

[rameye]

spindrift, good for you, I airlocked the IP doing a simple filter change...

in the words of homer simpson "doh"!! :D

[94blue]

Weeeeellllll,

I really do appreciate all the helpful info from ya'll. At the moment I can only wait for the free time of the weekend to get up Saturday and get diesel fuel all over the place. At least I won't have to do too much inside the house for ther rest of the day.

Thanks again to all and hope I am done posting for a while.

94blue

[rameye]

best part it is getting all stinky with diesel on your hands and all....

then you eat your bologna sandwich.....mmmmmmmm!

diesel, tastes great...less filling! :D :D :D

[94blue]

Howdy all,

I saw another post mentioning the metal ring that fits under the fuel filter/seperator. I found mine still attached to my old filter (did not know it was there). Good thing I happened across that post because out of three different manuals that metal ring is not mentioned. I don't have the shop manual which is now on my list. Anyway I put the ring on the filter this morning and POOF! Cranked right up. It ran about 35 minutes and I though all was cool so I shut it off.

I tried it again an hour or so later and started right up but stalled after about 15 minutes. Started up again and stalled after about 15 more minutes.

It was stallling before the filter change and I had been leaning toward the PMD. I need to get the remote cooler anyway.

Thanks for the help,
94blue