Cracked Fuel Filter Housing?

[SadderButWiser6.5]

My 2002 GMC 2500 Duramax was occasionally taking a long time cranking before it would start. Finally I was stranded in the Harbor Freight parking lot after shopping and it wouldn't start with any amount of cranking. A kind soul in the parking lot said his son-in-law did rescue auto repairs. He called his son-in-law and he advised squirting starter fluid in the intake. I said I had bought starter fluid in the past that had warning labels against using on diesel engines. We tried WD40 in the intake without success. Out of desperation I found a "Gunk" brand starter fluid at Harbor Freight "for gasoline and diesel engines" per the label on the can. It did finally start with the starter fluid, after the batteries were pretty worn down. It clattered a lot after finally starting but ran normally after a little while.

Since then I've been stranded a few times but always got home after squirting "Gunk" starter fluid in the intake. I did a search on the diesel page and found some other members with similar problems and other members who thought it could be a cracked filter housing. Some mechanics I've talked to around here agree. Evidently a cracked filter housing is pretty common on a 2002 dmax.

So even though the Gunk brand starter fluid is claimed to be OK for diesels, I'm sick of raising the hood to squirt starter fluid in 110 degree Phoenix summer heat (eventually hitting 120 degree later). The Chevy dealer quoted around $500 for a new filter housing (part only). I'm thinking duct tape and bailing wire... Would appreciate any frugal advice from dpage members.

Symptoms are as follows:

1) Starts within 5 seconds of cranking after sitting in the driveway overnight.
2) Gets me where I'm going around town after starting in the morning, and will start again easily immediately after shutdown. But when I come back after it's been sitting a few minutes after shutdown, will need to spray starter fluid.
3) I did change the fuel filter and it didn't solve the starting problems.
4) Pumping the hand pump on the filter housing would leak fuel on top of the housing from around the bleeder screw. After changing the OEM bleeder screw for a matching bolt/rubber washer that cured the fuel leakage from hand pumping, it didn't fix the starting problem. the hand pump never seems to pump up hard like it should.

Please, can anyone save me from having to buy a new filter housing (which no one has yet guaranteed will solve the starting problem). Is there some quick and easy test to verify I need a new filter housing? any quick fix hints? anyone... ??? Thnx !!!

[Kennedy]

It sounds like you have good cold starts, but poor hot starts am I understanding correctly?

Starting fluid will only lead to problems eventually. What is odd is that the hand pump does nothing. This leads me to believe that:

A) your batteries may be weak and cranking slow?

B) your fuel system is tired and weak. Likely high injector return rates.


A lift pump is a surefire way to eliminate the filter housing as the culprit.

[DmaxMaverick]

In addition to John's suggestions:

1. Starting fluid, of ANY brand or label claims, WILL cause serious damage at some time, and the risk increases with each use. Starting fluid is ether, which is the active ingredient in all brands of them. They are not intended to be used in modern Diesel engines with glow plugs, and almost all automotive Diesels.

2. Colder fuel (like after sitting over night) has a higher viscosity. Higher viscosity fuel generates pressure easier, making starts easier. Hot fuel is thinner, so if you have any issue in the fuel system reducing the effective ability to develop pressure, thinner fuel will exaggerate the problem. Injectors with higher than spec. return rates can cause this. Any air in the system can also exaggerate the condition. Slow cranking speed makes any of the above difficult to diagnose.

3. Contaminated fuel can cause any of these symptoms. More than about 25% of gasoline in the fuel will make starting more difficult, and gets progressively worse as the % increases. Normally, less than about %20 of gasoline is not noticed. Most all fuel station Diesel contains some % of gasoline, and always has/will. Problems only occur when the supplier gets too much in the tank, or the driver pumps the wrong fuel into the vehicle.

4. Any combination of the above conditions increase starting difficulty.

5. The use of any starting fluid will eventually damage your engine, if use is continued. If it won't start on straight #2, something is wrong. Using starting fluid is only skirting the symptom and hides the root cause. Its use should only be for a real emergency.

[SadderButWiser6.5]

Kennedy,

Thanks for your ideas. Now I've only got more questions for you based on your ideas:

1) As I said, I'm in Phoenix, Arizona. Colds starts/Hot starts That would be relative to your idea of hot and cold, right? But to help you/help me I can put numbers to my woes. It's 105 degrees air temp right now. I haven't started the engine in a couple of days. I pointed the laser thermometer at the hood and it was 154 degrees, (might be hotter under the hood?) Would this be considered a cold start? Anyway 3 seconds of cranking started the engine and it ran normally.

2) Based on similar experience over the past few weeks, it will start within 3-4 seconds after sitting overnight or longer (exact number of hours of sitting to start easily... I haven't done that experiment yet). Irregardless of 154 degree ambient temp. But after I drive it long enough to get the engine up to normal operating temp... that's when the fun begins... in two different ways...

2.1) Starting the engine immediately after shutdown (after it's HOT at normal operating temp) is no problem. Starts right up.

2.2) But... But... But... when I come back after a few minutes or hours... I have to use starting fluid. I know soak-back temps can be higher than normal operating temps, but I think there's something more than cold starts/hot starts going on here, although temperature must be involved in the equation somehow.

3) How does the hand pump not working normally, lead you to believe the batteries might be weak? I forgot to mention, I replaced both batteries with brand new ones the first time I had to use starting fluid. Have you given up on the idea that the filter housing might actually be cracked?

4) If my fuel system is tired and weak, or if I have high injector return rates, how do I test for that?

5) How is a lift pump a surefire way to eliminate the filter housing as the culprit?

DmaxMaverick,

1) How does starter fluid affect glow plugs? After the engine is warmed up a little, (even before it's at normal operating temp), the "wait to start" light doesn't come on. If the "wait to start" light doesn't come on when I turn the key, does that mean the glow plugs aren't burning when I start cranking?

2) "Colder fuel (like after sitting over night) has a higher viscosity"... I'm sure that's correct. Please see my response to Kennedy #1, #2 & #3 above and see if you think viscosity is still the root problem.

3) That's very interesting about diesel fuel having a % gasoline in it. I didn't know that at all. My first question is a pet peeve I've had since I bought my first diesel truck 7 years ago. Because all my life, diesel fuel was cheaper than gasoline, and as soon as I buy a diesel truck, it switches opposite. Am I hated that much, that the entire petroleum industry had to change their price structure just to f*ck me up??? Why did the prices reverse? I know heating oil is basically diesel. Did heating oil prices go up as disproportionately? Does heating oil have gasoline in it? Was the % gasoline in diesel 7 years ago the same as now? I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry I get carried away sometimes...

4) I hate to tell you, but I'm running biodiesel. I know everyone will immediately dismiss my problem as being unsolveable until I drain my biodiesel and replace it with the finest petroleum product I can skim off the gulf of Mexico. I can't tell you how many big rig drivers would flip me off as they passed, when I was cruizing the highway in my 1984 Datsun diesel station wagon (with a "biodiesel" bumper sticker). Why??? Jealosy because they couldn't get biodiesel on the freeway? I would often run the Datsun on straight veggie oil with just a kiss of dino diesel. So please before you dismiss me as a kook, remember the first diesel engine (designed my Mr. Diesel himself) was designed to run on straight peanut oil. Why are we all not running on peanut oil now? Because we all want to ensure the illuminati has the highest degree of control over it's slaves, and the petroleum industry executives get the biggest salaries and greatest bonuses possible, for all their fine work protecting our prices and environment, and get bailed out when they f*ck up. Sorry I get carried away sometimes...

Kennedy & DmaxMaverick

Please see other responses to an almost identical post I placed in another area, I haven't had time to respond to yet: http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=37209

[Kennedy]

Kennedy,

Thanks for your ideas. Now I've only got more questions for you based on your ideas:

1) As I said, I'm in Phoenix, Arizona. Colds starts/Hot starts That would be relative to your idea of hot and cold, right? But to help you/help me I can put numbers to my woes. It's 105 degrees air temp right now. I haven't started the engine in a couple of days. I pointed the laser thermometer at the hood and it was 154 degrees, (might be hotter under the hood?) Would this be considered a cold start? Anyway 3 seconds of cranking started the engine and it ran normally.

A cold start is when the engine is at ambient temp. Hot start is engine at or close to operating temp.

2) Based on similar experience over the past few weeks, it will start within 3-4 seconds after sitting overnight or longer (exact number of hours of sitting to start easily... I haven't done that experiment yet). Irregardless of 154 degree ambient temp. But after I drive it long enough to get the engine up to normal operating temp... that's when the fun begins... in two different ways...

2.1) Starting the engine immediately after shutdown (after it's HOT at normal operating temp) is no problem. Starts right up.

2.2) But... But... But... when I come back after a few minutes or hours... I have to use starting fluid. I know soak-back temps can be higher than normal operating temps, but I think there's something more than cold starts/hot starts going on here, although temperature must be involved in the equation somehow.

Heat soak. Engine is now HOT and it heat soaks so teh fuel in the lines and injectors is probably 200°f + or more. Thinner, etc.



3) How does the hand pump not working normally, lead you to believe the batteries might be weak? I forgot to mention, I replaced both batteries with brand new ones the first time I had to use starting fluid. Have you given up on the idea that the filter housing might actually be cracked?


Batteries have nothing to do with teh fuel filter housing, BUT have everything to do with cranking speed which affects rail psi which affects atarting. If the housing were cracked wouldn't it be more the oposite? The longer it sat the more likely drainback would occur and large amounts of air would enter the system causing a start/stall condition.



4) If my fuel system is tired and weak, or if I have high injector return rates, how do I test for that?


GM has a test for return flow.

5) How is a lift pump a surefire way to eliminate the filter housing as the culprit?

Put it under pressure and if it leaks it's bad. It's something that every Dmax should have anyhow.

DmaxMaverick,

1) How does starter fluid affect glow plugs? After the engine is warmed up a little, (even before it's at normal operating temp), the "wait to start" light doesn't come on. If the "wait to start" light doesn't come on when I turn the key, does that mean the glow plugs aren't burning when I start cranking?

2) "Colder fuel (like after sitting over night) has a higher viscosity"... I'm sure that's correct. Please see my response to Kennedy #1, #2 & #3 above and see if you think viscosity is still the root problem.

3) That's very interesting about diesel fuel having a % gasoline in it. I didn't know that at all. My first question is a pet peeve I've had since I bought my first diesel truck 7 years ago. Because all my life, diesel fuel was cheaper than gasoline, and as soon as I buy a diesel truck, it switches opposite. Am I hated that much, that the entire petroleum industry had to change their price structure just to f*ck me up??? Why did the prices reverse? I know heating oil is basically diesel. Did heating oil prices go up as disproportionately? Does heating oil have gasoline in it? Was the % gasoline in diesel 7 years ago the same as now? I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry I get carried away sometimes...

4) I hate to tell you, but I'm running biodiesel. I know everyone will immediately dismiss my problem as being unsolveable until I drain my biodiesel and replace it with the finest petroleum product I can skim off the gulf of Mexico. I can't tell you how many big rig drivers would flip me off as they passed, when I was cruizing the highway in my 1984 Datsun diesel station wagon (with a "biodiesel" bumper sticker). Why??? Jealosy because they couldn't get biodiesel on the freeway? I would often run the Datsun on straight veggie oil with just a kiss of dino diesel. So please before you dismiss me as a kook, remember the first diesel engine (designed my Mr. Diesel himself) was designed to run on straight peanut oil. Why are we all not running on peanut oil now? Because we all want to ensure the illuminati has the highest degree of control over it's slaves, and the petroleum industry executives get the biggest salaries and greatest bonuses possible, for all their fine work protecting our prices and environment, and get bailed out when they f*ck up. Sorry I get carried away sometimes...

Kennedy & DmaxMaverick

Please see other responses to an almost identical post I placed in another area, I haven't had time to respond to yet: http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=37209



Comments in blue

[Centurion6R]

So please before you dismiss me as a kook, remember the first diesel engine (designed my Mr. Diesel himself) was designed to run on straight peanut oil.



Actually, Rudolph Diesel's first engine ran on gasoline believe it or not...it was not until a few years later that one of his engine licensees did the peanut oil burner.

[Mark Rinker]

Quick test: Run a couple of tanks of straight #2 diesel fuel through the system, with a healthy dose of diesel additive/conditioner. See if the problem resolves itself, or continues.