Toughest Job on the 6.5?

[jerry598]

This is a little trivial, but after dropping my starter for the 3rd time for various reasons, I'd like to vote on pulling and reinstalling the starter as the biggest PIA on the K3500 4x4 1995 6.5L. Getting to those nuts holding the wires on the solenoid is a real PIA, also the front bracket on the starter, what a pain! And all the various nut sizes and other problems, is the Ford or Cummins any better? But really, I love my truck in spite of it all. Sigh......

[rustyk]

No contest: Water pump. I can say that because replacing the starter on my diesel pusher took 20 minutes

[john8662]

It's too hard from underneath. You should just get the starter hung from underneath, do the wiring and support bracket from within the wheel well (remove splash shield flap if still there).

Not really a great fun job.

Hardest: Fuel line brackets and engine to transmission bolts on the bell-housing. I hate those...

J

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

john, what tranny is that? doing my 4th or 5th clutch, it's pretty easy with the NV4500.

about that water pump, how hard? i have to do one. :(

[SmithvilleD]

Hardest: Fuel line brackets and engine to transmission bolts on the bell-housing. I hate those...

J

x2 - Those combination bellhousing bolt/studs can really hold up the show getting an engine pulled for the first time.

After getting mine apart when pulling the engine, I took Robyn's advice & relocated the fuel feed & return to run up the firewall under the hydraboost & then over to the engine.

[crashz]

Even on the older straight axle 4x4's, the starter is not fun. Especially when manuevering that big direct drive unit. After a few minutes it feels like it gains another 100lbs!

I replaced the lift pump in my father's 2004 Dodge recently. Can't imagine that starter to be a fun replacement either. Its on the driver's side of the engine, directly below the fuel filter/lift pump and above the front differential. Can't ses much of it from the side because its behind the frame. Every time I work on that truck I feel that my arms need to be about 1 inch longer... :D

[Robyn]

Starter is a piece of cake.

Yup Yup. Access through the wheel well opening for the wires and the tail hanger.

The two stud topped bolts that hold the fuel lines are among the nastiest items I have had to deal with.

This was obviously an engineering oversight. The engine,tranny/Tcase all goes into the frame before the body goes on. The witing for the powertrain and the frame is all in place as is the fuel tank, lines and such.

The brackets and lines at that point would apear to be very neat and clean.

Let the body settle a tad on the mounting pads for 5 years and then try and get those suckers loose.

The addition of the LOCKING NUTS :eek: on the stud tops was the part that added insult to inury.

The vehicles that I have pulled the engines on have all had this mess either moved or modified in some way to make things easier to deal with. ( BY ME)

The nasty job on these trucks is the HVAC system.

The design forces the removal of the dash to do any work on the heater core or the AC avaporator.]


Sadly these components could have been fit in such a way that allowed their removal through an access cover on the HVAC enclosure.

The design is a flagrant violation of basic engineering principals.

Further the dash could be designed with a section that is easily removable so access to the components was easy.

Esthetics of the interior is always of concern but there is no reason to make these components so tough to work on.

Getting the 4L80 with the T case out of a 4x4 is no sweet treat either.

The cross member that holds the torsion bar anchors does not allow an easy drop out of the gear boxes.

Normally its a giggle, wiggle and tilt excercise and then drop things out the front below the engine. Nasty


Missy

[rameye]

jeez..

I'm reading all this with extreme horror as I just started my first engine R&R...........:(

[JTodd]

Dropping the fuel tank to replace the fuel lines in the middle of the winter was less than average.

Tank stuck to the rubber mat + 0*=no fun

[midniteplowboyy]

I have to agree on the starter as my most dreaded job on the 6.5, it dont take that long, just a pain in the rear and no room to work.

[rustyk]

john, what tranny is that? doing my 4th or 5th clutch, it's pretty easy with the NV4500.

about that water pump, how hard? i have to do one. :(

The engine front plate has to come off, because several of the bolts are inside. And it requires anerobic sealant on reassembly.

See here (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=34662).

[rameye]

any suggestion for undoing the tranny to engine studs with no f#@king room to get to them??

I thought the motor mounts were bad....the starter looks easy compared to those!

[DmaxMaverick]

Use a jack under the tranny mount (remove cross member). Jack it up/down as necessary to access the bolts. Watch the fan/radiator clearance, wire harnesses and fluid lines very carefully. Loosen or remove the exhaust coupler if necessary. Don't worry about the distributor cap, because it doesn't have one (a normal concern on GM gassers).

[jerry598]

jeez..

I'm reading all this with extreme horror as I just started my first engine R&R...........:(

Won't be bad since you'll be pulling the engine. Have 700 miles on my R&R engine right now. Pulled the motor last June, got it back in and running in December. Yes, I am slow. Follow the advice on getting to those bellhousing studs and the fuel lines by dropping the crossmember, etc. Of course the starter will still be a PIA, my strong opinion.

[rameye]

not to hi-jack but...

how do we make the engine go lower if she is still in her mounts to make access by removing the trans cross member??

I cant see this sucker really gowing going any lower...To the best of my ability I'm only going to be able to remove th epassenger motor mount....on th e drivers side I was just going to split it in half.

thanks...

[Robyn]

Cuss, swear and throw things :eek:

Ok nowm that you have vented.

Remove the front engine mounts (part that bolts to the frame)

Lower the engine back down ( make sure the fan os off so it dont hit the shroud)

This will give you some extra room to reach in down and around to get the nuts off those too nasty stud topped bolts.

You can also remove the tranny/T case cross memeber and allow the gear boxes to rest directly on the torsion bar X member.

These two maneuvers will gain a lot of room.


Keep us posted

Missy

[rogers]

I am sorry to hear that you are having such trouble, mine came out without too much trouble.

There are two ways to go about this: up or down.


UP

Leave the motor mounts attached. Disconnect the transmission harness, move it out of the way. Disconnect the transmission linkage. Drop the drive shaft, move it out of the way. Remove the two bolts securing the transmission to it's mount. Using a jack under the transfer case raise the jack as far as it will go. The nuts and brackets should now be accessible from the top.


DOWN

Leave the motor mounts attached. Disconnect transmission harness, linkage, and mount. Drop the drive shaft. Using a jack, raise the transmission slightly. Remove the transmission cross member. Using the jack slowly lower the transmission (and transfer case) just until the top nuts and brackets can be reached from underneath the truck using several long extensions.

It should be noted that either of these is best done with the radiator, fan, and shroud removed. Also be very careful of wires and hoses attached to the motor. The Idea behind either process is to use the transmission as a huge lever to alter the angle of the engine in relation to the firewall. It should go without saying, but leave the bottom two bellhousing bolts/studs in place until the engine and transmission are returned to approx. original angles and placements.

Good luck!

[rameye]

ok I see this will suck either way!!

i get the concept..I thought I was home free after the starter was dropped..

just didnt know if there was a sneaky way to make it happen without moving the trans and disconnecting all the transmission stuff to (harnesses, linkages, etc)

Ps ..Robyn how in the hell can you remove the drivers motor mount??? it so damn jammed up and blocked by the transaxle..

Thanks for the help..

[jerry598]

ok I see this will suck either way!!


Ps ..Robyn how in the hell can you remove the drivers motor mount??? it so damn jammed up and blocked by the transaxle..

Thanks for the help..

I don't remember the D side mount being that difficult to reach from the TOP. Just pull the single center horizontal bolt out of it. That will allow lots of up movement, but just a little down. Removing the mount itself is tough. Four hands are a great help, two from above and two from below.

Robyn can help clarify when she gets back to this.

[rogers]

I wouldn't worry about the mounts until the engine is out. Just pull the two through bolts, and lift the engine out. Worry about the bottom halves after. Same way going back in, just my opinion.

[rameye]

Ok, I thought I would need the room right to left to get this out...by what your saying its a straight forward out...

Tomorrow is the day..trying to get the ducks in order..

Thanks to all.... here is a picture of the beast

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/rameye.jpg

[Robyn]

With the mounts off the frame pads up front the engine will slide forward, up and out easily.

The 6.5 is wider than even a 454 soooooooooooooo.. "HINT"

To make life far easierm with less colorful metafores and other undesirables.

Remove the exhaust manifolds before removing the engine (turbo too)

With the engine bare, it is far easier to handle it going in or coming out.

When installing the new engine, have the oil cooler lines all hooked up and routed along the side of the engine.

This is far easier to do than fighting them after the engine is in the truck.

Hope this helps


Missy

[rameye]

I did it...and it fought me every damn step of the way!

Who in the hell came up with those tranny studs!!!!

Those motor mounts are for the insane!!! (especially the drivers side WTF!)

Those hose brackets!!! WTF!!!

Any way its out, very little collateral damage, dog tired, covered in grease head to toe!


I'm happy...thanks to all for your help

[jerry598]

Congrats! Now like Robyn mentioned, you should have the exhaust manifolds off. I put mine back on after the engine was put back in the bay. Now, I won't argue for one way or another, but I don't remember it being that hard to put them on after. But I had to adjust the crossover pipe. For some reason it was not the same with my new heads, about 3/32nds to narrow, and I could not get the bolts threaded back in until I put the Xover in a vise and wacked it a few times with a hammer to narrow the distance between the two sides. Using a tape measure and a hammer, it went back on just fine. My experience is probably the exception, not the rule.

[rameye]

thanks for that tip...I'll mock up that crossover before I slide it in...

Took it out manifolds on, all stuff hanging off it up front...plenty of room....