599 block info

[Rafedial1]

looking to assemble my first 6.5 engine later this year. making preparations for the build and just started to take a good look at my 599 block. its an uncut block, std 4.060"

will these numbers tell me something?

-TRE510082 (front timign area, next to WP outlet)

oil pan rail has (5) 2's spaced out about evenly near the mains? is this for bearing size?

so far crack free...

any tips for a first 6.5 rebuild would be appreciated. this is also my first complete engine build.

how about main studs?

[SmithvilleD]

GM select fit the bearings & I believe those 2's you're seeing stamped by each main indicate what size/combination of bearing shells they used on each main. It's not unusual to find they used different sized shells in the block & the cap on the same main to get the desired oil clearance. My engine's original main bearings were a combination of std size & 0.013 (mm).

There's also a 3 color code (blue, orange, white) range for crank main journal diameters. Been a while since I built my engine but it seems like the crank had paint dots relating to that color code. The Haynes Diesel Engine Repair manual that covers the GM & Ford IDI engines has a chart on these codes on pg 4-33.

This all relates to how GM originally assembled the engine. You've got to measure things now & set the oil clearances you want.

[Robyn]

The bearings that are available other than from GM come in, Standard, .25mm US, .5mm US and .75 US

Most cranks that are still in good shape, stock size and that have not been ground work fine with Standard bearings. A clearance of .0025" is a great spot on these engines.

As mentioned the factory used a select fit scheme to get clearances right where they wanted them.

Dont try to go too tight on these engines. I have built several of these and have set them up at .0025" and this works great.

They will hold good oil pressure and you wont have to worry.

I used the late "squirt block" oil pump with my non squirt block.
This is not necessary but works well.

My engine runs 55 PSI hot down the road and idles at 35 hot
75-80 PSI cold is a little unerving but I let the thing warm up a bit at idle whn its cold out.

The oil pumps were made in two types, both look similar.

You can use the squirt block pump on an older block but not the other way around.


Your 599 block can be put together with bearing clearances as I mentioned, use a stock pump and run great.

The journals are very large so these engines don't need real high pressure.

If your crank is in good shape and the journals are smooth, just have it pollished and your set.

Now if you would like to do a very nice upgrade you can get a casr steel crank from SCAT.

These are head and shoulders above the stock GM cranks plus they have ZERO time on them.

If you decide to use a Scat crank I would have the crank rods and pistons ballanced (Rotating assembly ballanced)
These cranks are good but I would not trust the ballance.

Another option is the Forged steel crank available from Peninsular Diesel.

These are a lovely piece although spendy.

Take a real close look at the areas around the outer main bolt holes on your block.

Cracks in the center mains can at times be very difficult to see.

With the block all clean and washed out good with hot water and soap, the next step is to use a propane torch and heat the areas around the outer main holes.

Do one hole at a time and heat the web up and down the depth of the outer hole on both sides.
Do this until the web is hot to the touch. (ittle hand held propane torch)

Let the block stand and look the area over real good. Any fine cracks will display a thin line of oil that will seep out after the heating process.

If no oil shows, the hole is sound.

Cracks that are in line with the hole center can be repaired with the Lock and Stitch Inserts.

This fix will not only repair the crack but make the entire area stronger and stop one of the causes of the cracking from happening again.

I insert all 6.5 blocks at the 6 center main outer holes as a matter of fact.
I do this even if they are not cracked.

The insert takes all the spreading forces off the area.

The insert is solid and is high tensil steel. The inserts outer threads are such that as the torque ias applied to the bolt the inset pulls the area together.
The threads look like the limbs on a christmas tree, they aim UP towards the entrance to the hole.

If your Cylinder bores are not worn badly (More than .002") I would say, reuse them as is, just lightly hone to break the glaze.

Look the cylinder decks over real well. The 6.5 has a nasty habit of block erosion around the head gasket fire rings on cy's 1 and 2 (two front ones)

If the deck has any little etching and worn in spots near or around the front water passage this needs to be fixed.

Having the block decked is the only way to fix this.

You can get a .010" thicker head gasket from Felpro to allow for a .010" cut.

Now if you find that you need to take off more, Cometic makes just about any thickness you could want. (been there done that)

You must install new head bolts on these engines. The bolts are a TTY (torque to yield) and are a one time use item.

Another item is the pushrods, these have one end that has a copper wash (color) on one ball end. Be sure this goes to the rockers.
Failure to do this will cause valve train failure as the one end of the push rod is not hard and will wear rapidly if installed wrong.

If the rocker arm guide buttons have seen a lot of miles, replace them with new ones.
These are a barbed plastic button that simply drives into the rocker shaft.

Keep the individual rockers in their original places, just wash the parts as an assembly, dry good, then remove the old buttons and replace with new.

Having a button break off is nasty, it can cause the rocker to fall off the valve stem, pop the spring and let a keepers fly out, then the valve falls into the engine and GAME OVER all for a cheap set of plastic buttons.

These engines are a very basic V8 design and there is not any real secrets here as far as a build goes.

Keeping them Oil tight can present a challenge.

The Pan and the Valve covers dont use a gasket from the factory.

Felpro makes a gasket set for the pan that I really like.

The front and sides are all one piece then it has the rubber that goes over the rear main.
If you put a nice film of High temp RTV on the block rails and the timing cover front rail area, the pan gasket will seal reall well.

A little extra goop on the corners will assure a perfect oil tight seal.

Use some high tack under the rubber rear pan seal where it sits in the main cap.

Also be sure to use a little sealer on the outer edges of the rear main cap to keep oil from seeping around the area outside the main seal.

I ues a little bit of high tack, just a little.

The timing cover uses a gasket, use RTV on both sides of the gasket.
The steel water pump back plate originally used an anerobic sealer. There is a gasket in most kits for this. Use RTV on both sides of these gaskets.

These engines can be assembled easily and stay oil tight for many years.

NOW use only RTV (High temp) on the valve covers.

After priming the oil pump and the engine with an old oil pump drive with the gear teeth ground off, clean the area that the VC sits on real well with Brakekleen to remove any and all oil.

Make sure the VC's are flat and that the little flanges are in good order.

Clean the VC seal area and apply a good 3/16" thick area of High temp RTV all around the VC seal area, sit the covers down and squish the cover till the RTV oooozes out, install the bolts and "SNUG" down.

Let the covers sit overnight so the RTV can cure well.. Snug the bolts a little more and then your set.

Install the intake gaskets dry. Install the gasket that goes between the IP and the cover dry.

Use BLUE loctite on the following bolts (NOT RED)

Cam retainer plate bolts
Cam gear front bolt
Inner timing cover bolts
Water pump back plate bolts (inner ones)
Injection pump to drive gear bolts (inside the timing cover)

**If any of these get loose and fall out it wrecks things BIG TIME**

Use silcone High temp on any front cover bolts that go through to coolant.

Use a little never seaze on the crank snout when installing the dampener.
A touch of Blue Loctite on the crank snout/damper bolt

Install the head bolts as they come from the box ( will have a dry silicone sealer on them) DO NOT use any oil on the threads.

If you use the Felpro head gaskets (best choice other than Cometic) dont use any sealers with the Felpro gaskets , install dry from the package.

A little RTV is alway fine on any oil galley plugs. *** Just a tiny bit in the threads is all you need.****

Brass soft plugs is a nice perk but do replace the plugs as almost all with any time will be badly corroded on the inside (nasty job to replace in the rig.

Replace the block heater too while your at it. Middle hole on the LH side.

The lifters are best replaced with new ones. If the cam lobes show nothing nore than a slight bright path where the lifters run, the cam is good to go.

The timing sprockets rarely wear much and usually just a fresh timing chain is all thats needed.

I have seen engine with over 200K miles that the sprockets were perfect and a new chain made thing perfect again.

I wrote a complete thread posting on 6.5 build tips and its in the 6.5 tech section here. Plenty of Piccy's with notes and such.

Hope this helps

Any questions, just ask, we will help out.

Best

Missy Robyn

[john8662]

its an uncut block, std 4.060"

Looks like you need to step up to a .020" overbore.

Stock size is 4.054"-4.055" and that's with an already figured in .004" clearance, no way that 4.060" would work.


OMG, Robyn, that's a long post... Us A.D.D. fellas fell off on that one...

[Rafedial1]

thanks Darrin, Robyn, John. I have a long road ahead but it's help like this that paves it smooth. Robyn I appreciate every word.

the block does have some minor pitting on the deck, so it will be machined. bore will be a 0.020 or 30 over, but you can still see cross hatch in the uncut bore.

would like to achieve somewhere around 19:1 comp.

two big expenses I am unsure about are Peninsular's crank and a set of marine pistons. these two items alone nearly double my total projected rebuild cost. add in a nice IP to top it off. were talking $2.5K for 3 items. crazy!
cany someone give me a first hand experience with Peninsular's crank? what would be the point of a $900 forged crank in a notoriously weak main block?

-Cody

[rogers]

I have Peninsular's forged crank. I love it! The weak block is exactly the reason for a more stout crankshaft. The more you can control the harmonics the better your chances for a long life engine. The forged crank is just part of the total recipe. Not absolutely necessary, but I think it's worth it. Maybe my opinion is a bit tainted, I had a broken crank leave me stranded in podunksville Iowa.

Also, it should be noted that scat's 6.5 cranks are cast in China and machined in California. I am not saying that means anything, just that you should know.

[jerry598]

The harmonics are the reason I put a fluidamper on my rebuild. At $425 it was spendy but I also felt better about reusing my original crank and skipping the stud girdles and stuff like that.

[Robyn]

The scat cranks may be cast in China, BUTTTTTTTT the foundaries are state of the art, setup and installed by folks from the good Ole USA

Just remember, the Dodge cummins is made in a plant in China.

The Forged crank is an addition to the 6.5 that should have been a standard item from the gitgo.

The P400 from AMG is fit with these cranks.

The scat 9000 series cranks are a very nice crank. Cast steel although not as good as a steel forging is still better than the Iron cranks GM put out.

PLUS these are Zero hour cranks.

Having had zero stress on the crank is a good thing.

I wanted to use a new Forged crank in my DaHoooley build plus a fresh set of Clearwater heads, unfortunately the $$$$ ran out before my apetite did so I had to settle for a good used set of castings and the original crank.

Missy