New 6.5 blocks/ a word of caution

[Robyn]

Recently a fellow not too far away contacted me about doing the main bolt hole inserts.
Unfortunately his block had cracks that were outside the area where the inserts could fix. BLOCK JUNK

The fellow searched for a good used block and found nothing.

Soo he purchased a new aftermarket block from clearwater cyl head in Florida.

The block was beautifully machined and his project moved ahead.
I understand he had a local shop do some work, maybe fit the pistons, not totally sure.

The engine went together fine and was installed in the truck.
It was not until after the install that issue began to crop up.

30 seconds of running did not produce oil pressure. :eek:

We talked on several occasions during this time.

All normal items were checked and rechecked, still no oil pressure.

It was then that a priming tool was made from an olf vacuum pump/oil pump drive.

Still no oil pressure but the pump was definately making it, just not going anywhere.

OIL to the cooler,, OK
Oil from the cooler,, OK
NO oil beyond the filter assembly.

After much thrashing it was found that the main oil passage in the block that feeds from the filter and into the galleries of the block was plugged with a combination of dried up cutting oil and shavings from the machining process.

The engine was torn down and examined.

Rear main and one rod bearing were damaged beyond use.

Engine had to come all the way apart again and all the oil passages checked, cleaned and rechecked and the plugs put back in.

This was a costly and time consuming event.

I know that many will say, "Oh it was just that junk after market block"

Here it is, the deal is this, the builder is responsible for checking everything including all oil passages for crap that may be in there.

Even a "good used GM block" thats been laying around can see crap find its way into passages.

Never ever let this go by and not look carefully.

Its far too costly to build an engine and then destroy it due to garbage left behind from the machining process.

Granted you normally dont find this sort of thing but, expect the unexpected.

Back weh I did DaHoooley I ended up with a "Good used block" that had seen one deck having been machined once before and not marked.

The set of pistons had one .030 in with the .020 and it was stamped .020

Never take anything for granted. Put the evil eye on everything.

Run hot water and soap through all passagesm and make damned sure they are clean.

Visually inspect the passages in the crank.

If you are building the thing, you are responsible if it does not work.

Bottom line, the sellers of this stuff will not stand behind anything like this.

Hope this helps someone avoid this situation.

Best


Missy

[DaveBr]

Good advice Robyn. Even the professional builders screw up more than they would like you to know about. Takes a little more time to check every thing out but there is nothing as sweet as hearing it run right the first time.

[Robyn]

The case I refered to definately got way too far along before the issue was found. The oil system should have been pumped up long before the engine went back in the truck.

Unfortunately that did not happen and then it became painfully obvious that there was serious issues.

Cost in time was definately not cool.
A set of main bearings wasted.
1 rod wasted.
Gaskets and such plus a set of head bolts.

The cost of this mistake was some serious cash.

I wont claim to be perfect, but to date I have yet to have an engine fail after I have rebuilt it.

I hear it all the time, "Robyn, your too damned anal" Yup sure am, but it pays off well to be that way.

Little anoyances get caught before they become a huge PITA and costly.

This is the second 6.5 incident I have been involved with after the train wreck.

The first was the poor soul who was so happy to hear his engine run that he forgot to remove the rags from the open intake ports, when he just had to fire the engine one last time before heading off to bed.

Totally wasted a late Navistar cast block. Sad deal for sure.


Missy

[turbonator]

Sad deal that motor that ate the rag..... he finished that build with a 599 block......

We finally started our ''Pugg'' motor today, ....... cranked until oil pressure, verified oil to turbo,......crack each injector, then re-tightened and cranked until fine mist coming out of glow plugs.

Installed glow plugs and motor started right up......priceless.

Oil pressure 35 psi at idle, no boost pressure numbers yet.....

Been working on it every chance since Christmas, we're kinda anal as well. (don't it feel good).

Thank you for all your help and encouragement Robyn.:D

p.s. Keep your good advise and tech coming, we all need it.

[Robyn]

Glad to help every chance I can.

Yesssss, that was a very sad tale with Rich's 6.5

When we get over excited, some times we make mistakes, and at times they are costly.

Rich had called me earlier that day and he was having a couple issues.
He came and borrowed a DS4 pump I had as his was having some troubles.

He swapped the Ip's and the thing ran fine.

Just had to go out one last time and listen to it PURRRRRRRRRRRR

He called me that eavening and told me what had happened.

OMG I just about cried right there.


Missy

[bigredtruck]

I'm sorry to say with all neg feed back on these engines and my experience with them they are great until the ip goes out then nothing timing in these things are hell and virtually impossible to set back with a new pump unless you have the tools and experience to work on these so in my opinion they are junk not worth the time or money to try and fix just send it to the crusher that's were mine is going after about 4.000 in new parts not wasting any more time or money on this thing but that's just me

[neo]

Not trying hi jack in any way, but I don't inderstand bigredtrucks comment. If the ip dies, you replace with new, is he saying it will still not be right due to timing differences? I thought the ip rarely really dies, that usually it is either the pmd ( most common) or the optosensor? Just trying to understand.
Thanks,
Neo

[Robyn]

I am not sure exactly what the issue is that you are having ?????????

I have replaced the IP on several of these rigs, mine and others.

Even without a scan tool for the DS4 pumps, I can get them close enough that the ECM won't scream.

The DB2 pumps are a snap to retime.

I either mark the IP and then have the original rebuilt at the Pump shop up in Portland or I use a gauge I made to align a new pump.

The final adjustments can be made once the thing is running.

More info please, ?????????????/// :confused:


Missy

[oldmechanic]

I'm sorry to say with all neg feed back on these engines and my experience with them they are great until the ip goes out then nothing timing in these things are hell and virtually impossible to set back with a new pump unless you have the tools and experience to work on these so in my opinion they are junk not worth the time or money to try and fix just send it to the crusher that's were mine is going after about 4.000 in new parts not wasting any more time or money on this thing but that's just me

I don't have a crusher But I will be glad to take it off your hands

[bigredtruck]

mine is a 1993 withe the manual pump changed pump and now wont start I have been looking for answers for 2 weeks now and know body seems to know what is wrong,Its just really aggravating when you spend so much money to get no were

[trbankii]

Where are you located? I'll give you $350 for it. :D

[Robyn]

I would bet that you have an air lock in the fuel system.

Be sure that the shut off solenoid in the IP goes click when you turn the key on.

Now make sure you have air free fuel to the IP (run the lift pump to purge any air)

with the glow plugs out, spin the engine, you should get fuel mist from the glow plug holes fairly quick.

Install the plugs, glow it and it should start.

Missy

[bigredtruck]

what i did is remove all the glow plugs and open the drain on the filter and turned the engine over till mist of fuel came out of each cylinder and fuel was coming out the drain on the filter then put he glow plugs back in and tried to start well no start so i thought I would advance the timing a small amount and it did turn over better like it was going to start but still no start so I thought I would check the timing chain and there is 1/8 to 1/4 of movement on the balancer before the chain even moved so I did manage to pick up a gear set on the way to work (cloyes brand) and I noticed that there were no timing marks on the gears is this right I have a 2000 block if this will make any difference thanks Ronnie

[Yukon6.2]

Hi
I don't think that you have a problem with the timing chain.Especally if the motor is a 2000.
Have you verified that your glow plug system is working?Checked the glow plugs to see if they are good?
You could try plugging in the truck to warm up the motor then try to start.
You say you spent $4000 so far on parts.What exactly was wrong?What did you replace?These are a basic easy to work on diesel,dosn't take many systems to get it to run,unlike a electronic controled motor
Give use a detailed list of what you replaced and worked on.mabey someone will have more ideas.Was the truck running when you stated working on it?Did you buy it dead?Why did you change the IP?
Keep at it you will get it running.
Thomas

[More Power]

When the air has been bled out of the fuel injector lines, if a little fuel has been dribbled into the intake manifold, if the glow system operates, and the engine is warm (using block heater), and it still won't fire - it's likely the engine has slipped time. The valves are out of time with the 4-stroke cycle.

The DB2 mechanical fuel injection pump rarely fails in a way that causes the engine to suddenly stop. It can happen, but very very rarely. A DB2 is usually replaced after a long process of losing power, hard to start, etc that takes months to develop.

Some years ago I talked to a fellow who changed his fuel injection pump because of a routine engine running problem. He got it all back together, but the engine wouldn't fire, even when primed as indicated in the above paragraph. He became disappointed and was on the path of tossing the whole project. Only when I pressed for more information did he tell me he used the engine's starter to rotate the engine to remove the three gear bolts on the fuel injection pump driven gear. Once a couple of the bolts had been removed, the gear rotated against the aluminum cover when he used the starter, which sheared the cam key. The engine was now out of time, and it would not fire. Fixing that problem solved his starting problem... Never use the starter to rotate the engine when the IP gear is loose.

Jim

[its512eric]

BigRedTruck
If you are serious about selling, I am in central Texas and have a 2000 of my own.

[Kennedy]

Some years ago I talked to a fellow who changed his fuel injection pump because of a routine engine running problem. He got it all back together, but the engine wouldn't fire, even when primed as indicated in the above paragraph. He became disappointed and was on the path of tossing the whole project. Only when I pressed for more information did he tell me he used the engine's starter to rotate the engine to remove the three gear bolts on the fuel injection pump driven gear. Once a couple of the bolts had been removed, the gear rotated against the aluminum cover when he used the starter, which sheared the cam key. The engine was now out of time, and it would not fire. Fixing that problem solved his starting problem... Never use the starter to rotate the engine when the IP gear is loose.

Jim


This is quite common. My fuel guys used to tell me about all the reman pumps sent to dealers and returned claiming no-go. The sheared key thing was most common.

Turn the engine over manually.

[Robyn]

I agree 100%

Its so easy to use the crank bolt or one of the drive pulley bolts.

The fan shroud, fan and stuff should be off anyway to afford a clear shot at the area anyway (I do it that way)

Missy