UPDATE: Oil Line breaks at block Engine Ruined, NOT covered

[EscaladeDiesel]

Yesterday, while on the freeway at 70 mph, a huge cloud of gray smoke plums from the rear of my 1998 Suburban 4x4 TD with 49,900 miles, then disappears, so I keep driving albeit slower.

The oil pressure is in the acceptable range, but 20 seconds later goes to Zero.

I pull off but I can hear the engine ticking already before I shut it down.

Have it towed to the closest dealer 40 miles away.

Late today the service advisor tell me the engine makes a grinding noise when it's cranked and the mechanic says the engine will need to be replaced.

The cause of the failure is that the oil line connected to the back of the block had come loose.

He stated that this is NOT covered by warranty.

Am I actually gonna have to pay for a new engine?

How could I possibly be responsible for an oil line at the back of the engine that came off?

Has anyone had this problem?

Already had to replace the metal transmission lines and the metal A/C lines, NOW the metal oil lines...and only 50,000 miles at that.

I have/had Warranty Gold, but we all know what happened there.

[ 12-22-2003, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: EscaladeDiesel ]

[StephenA]

Damn; I feel your pain! :(

[turbovair]

I dont think you should pay anything. Id fight that tooth and nail. The oil cooler lines are an engine system.With an extended warranty you should be OK.You dont want to pay for a new engine.

[Arlie]

Check out my post "po with GM engineering". I'm wondering if you have the same quick disconnect that obviously is prone to failure. Do you know exactly what caused your leak?

Anyone else out there have this same problem?

Already one similar story showed up after I posted. If more people report this here your chances of getting warranty are improved.

There is a failure prone quick disconnect fitting and as I see it having solid lines coming off the block is also a blunder predisposing to failure. There should be a flexible line to take up vibration of the diesel engine.

I would fight hard. Take it to the GM rep for your region if the local shop doesn't cooperate.

Arlie

[DBlake]

If you have comprehensive insurance coverage, you might get your insurance company to pick up part of the cost. I knew a guy whose oil pump failed while his wife was driving. She did not notice the zero oil pressure until the engine stopped. The insurance company paid for a replacement engine minus the oil pump cost. They would not pay for the item that failed, but they did pay for the damage it caused! Just a thought. I wish you luck!

[EscaladeDiesel]

Well, I have have my Suburban towed to my house to better get an idea of what actually happened. Can anyone tell me exactly where I need to look for the oil line at the block on the lefthand side? Or a picture or diagram, that would be for me. THANKS

[EscaladeDiesel]

OH, I forgot, what it the updated repair to make sure this doesnt happen again? It is the connect at the block that fails or the connect at the line? Do the lines the Greg sells FIX this problem?

[Arlie]

Looking up from under your truck (creeper behind the front wheel) you will see the two steel lines that attach to the block, the rear one is near the oil filter. That is the one that failed on mine. This is assuming GM didn't change design from early 90s to 98. You may see where the oil poured out. Tug on the lines to see if they are solidly connected to the block.
Let us know what happens in your dealings with GM. So far I haven't had time to further check out my engine.
Arlie

[EscaladeDiesel]

Yesterday I tracked down the only dealer in Dallas that had the connectors. They said two were required.

Do I have to remove the enitre line in order to get it on at rear of the block?

There doesnt seem to be any metal savings in the oil, so maybe I am lucky there (fingers crossed).

Thx

[HowieE]

Greg's replacement lines screw directly into the block and screw directly onto the stock filter.
If you haven't found your oil lines by now the are up in behind the oil filter on he side of the block.

I have a set of new lines sitting here and just hope I get to them before GM gets to me.

[tom.mcinerney]

EscDies: Most of the OEM oil lines seep, then leak at hose-to-pipe junctions. Even new replacements, i think.
Re: "OH, I forgot, what it the updated repair to make sure this doesnt happen again? It is the connect at the block that fails or the connect at the line? ". Unfortunately some have reported a failure where the oil pipe pushes into the connector fitting that's threaded into the block[the oil pipe's welded end pops out of the block fitting], apparently the SS spring clips weren't properly seated. This sounds like your situation--you tell us.
A number of members have gone to local hydraulic hose jobbers and replaced the OEM connection from oil-cooler to block.
Recently, member-advertiser Greg Landyug {who also provides a refit that remote mounts the oil filter and adds a bypass oil filter} has begun providing a complete set of new oil hose lines from block to cooler, with proper adapter fittings each end.

[jimbucks]

EscaladeDiesel,
This also happened to me on my '98 Sub. However, my motors mounts gave out with abouot 69K on it and dropped the engine down on my oilcooler line and took out the line. Same thing, traveling over 70mph and before I could get from the "go fast" lane over to the berm of a 4 lane freeway, it pumped out all the oil and took out the engine. I fought like hell for a new engine but to no avail. However, they did cover it all under warranty and rebuilt the engine from the crank up. So, do not give up. If I can help, let me know. First and foremost, you need to get the Mechanic and the Service manager on your side. With out them, it will never fly. The regional reps listen and side with the Manager so you need to get him in your pocket. The mechanic wants to do it out of warranty because it pays him more money. DO NOT LISTEN TO HIM, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT.

[cruzer]

IIRC there was a past post stating that the oil cooler is required for oil circulation in the motor. I thought you could hurt the engine if it wasn't in place? Didn't it have something to do with the bypass valve? Needless to say, Find me a 6.5 td from the factory without cooler. Isn't the cooler part of the 6.5 package, or is it listed as a separate item on the sticker? Seems to me it is a required part of the engine.

Heat is a killer in this engine. If there has to be a cooler then there has to be oil lines. Remember GM is using oil to cool the engine. The late model engines have oil spray nozzils to cool the cyldr walls and oil spray piston. These componets along w/the external cooler,I would think, is part of the motor and are required.

Has anybody out there had their cooler lines replaced under waranty because they were leaking or seeping? If so, whats the difference between that and them blowing off the motor? Seems like GM should be more open to replacement, or at least work with you, considering you purchased one of GM's finest.

[EscaladeDiesel]

See my new post: Fixed the leak, the engine runs, but not very well. Low oil pressure and loud rapping noise.

[ANXIOUS-SUBMAN]

(sorry this is long)On a Sat evening in June of 2002 I was driving home from vacation on I-64 West near Beckley WV when I noticed I only had 20# of OP. By the time I pulled aside it was too late. Had it towed to Lewis Chev in Beckley, filled out the drop box ticket, put the key in it and dropped it in the box. Got a rental, stayed the night, drove home the next day. Me first contact with Lewis Chev was on the phone Monday am from my work in cinc, oh. By the end of the day they called back to say that the plastic clip that holds the metal part of the oil lines near the front of the pan was gone. The oil lines had then dropped onto the front dif where vibration had rubbed thru one of the aluminum tubes until it strayed most of the oil out. On wed the district rep was due to make a regular visit to the dealer. Between her and the service manager they decided I would get a NEW engine. After a ten day wait for GEP to build the engine, a couple days to ship and another week to put it in I went back to pick up the truck. While they were giving me the engine in warr they were going to have me pay for the oil line set which I thought was ironic. Meanwhile I had called gm in detroit (cause I had immediately started a file with them on the first day) They told me the oil lines were covered under the engine warr. I told this to the cashier and she promptly removed them from my bill. All I paid was the $100 deductable. The service manager was off work that day so I never got the chance to meet him in person. So, for $100 and the cost of a rental car for about 3 wks I have a new Enhanced Block 6.5. I would say I got lucky on this deal but one thing may have helped...when I filled out the drop box ticket I wrote on the bottom that I was a member of the Diesel Page. They knew immediately they had exposure and may have felt some pressure to do the right thing.

[thechevyhdman]

A new/reman engines aint cheap. We went through this in Febuary when my dad drove over a balance box to a tractor...smashed a hole in the oil pan and bent the sump up almost 4 inches.....Truck made it almost 5 mins before she died... A total horrible feeling to have something like this happen...I agree id fight tooth and nail. Id actually fight even dirtier than that as a GM reman engine with 3yr50K warranty ran us 7400.00 bucks out the door installed.
Really stinks man, Im sorry.....Hope the best...
Bill

[EscaladeDiesel]

Yes, I am not thrilled with the prospect of buying a new engine. I wonder if there is anyway I might get copies of your work orders, etc., so that I have ammunition to show them they DO and have replaced an engine for an oil line that fails. I might need them to get my engine replaced. My other fear is that they will give me a rebuilt as opposed to a new engine. My engine only has 49,900 miles.

[ANXIOUS-SUBMAN]

If you E-mail me direct with a fax number I guess I could fax you a copy of my work order. I don't see anything on it that would expose me to identity theft. Looking at it now I see I had 56,398 miles on it when this happened. I assumed at the time that if I got an engine in warranty it would be a rebuilt "Mr. Goodwrench" engine which I would have been ok with. I was afraid they would try to "fix" the existing engine. I was elated to hear that I was actually getting a NEW engine. The service manager even quoted to me the actual part # of the engine I was getting which I checked out on the internet and found that retail was almost $10,000. Part# 88894126 Description ENGDL65GW which is the GM part# for a NEW long block. I'm told that Lewis Chev in Beckley WV is one of the largest around. If their shop has a good continuous work load I can only guess it was easier and less time consuming to replace the engine than to take up a mechanic's time doing a rebuild when there's other work waiting to be done. I hadn't mentioned in my last post that I had the oil lines replaced about a year before this happened. The SM at Lewis stated that the way the oil lines were routed there was no way that plastic clip could have been there to start with. Interesting! Now I inspect my oil lines at every oil change and at some point will change over to the set that Greg at Lube Specialist sells. mikpsc@fuse.net

[EscaladeDiesel]

THANKS AGIAN MIKE!!!! I appreciate your help off the post!

[EscaladeDiesel]

Not sure what I was thinking, but today I realize the 5/100 engine warranty expired 10/16/2002 so I guess I am gonna have to eat the whole thing. Has anyone successfully fought GM to extended the coverage? My extended warranty company Warranty Gold went out of business in October, go figure.

[david]

My engine cost $3000 balanced and with 19 to 1 pistons ,he will delever, sp
David :D

[rjwest]

" Big RED LIGHT " When I installed my remote filters, there were 2 holes left over in filter adapter, Installed oil pressure switch in pressure
side, and light in dash, Maybe it will save me
when " oil line fail happens...

Looking for warning siren now....figure If I
don't see gage, or light or hear warning ,
I guess Its my fault......

[DmaxMaverick]

The gage, light and siren may be neat. A murphy switch would be easier, and "murphy" proof. You wouldn't have to worry about it, especially if someone other than you were driving.

[Marty Lau]

Originally posted by EscaladeDiesel:
Not sure what I was thinking, but today I realize the 5/100 engine warranty expired 10/16/2002 so I guess I am gonna have to eat the whole thing. Has anyone successfully fought GM to extended the coverage? My extended warranty company Warranty Gold went out of business in October, go figure. GM Diesel warranty is 120,000 miles 11 years which ever comes first. Read the section in the referce area about it.
Or is this just injection pump?

[richard7]

It is for the electronic injection pump, not the engine. :(

[plowking35]

I seem to recall that I ad the same issues with the clpbreaking and my oil lines rubbing on the front diff. It was so close that oil was seeping from the line, but I caught it just in time.I had just completed a 6 hr round trip towing 15K .In fact it reminds me to check on those again.

[EscaladeDiesel]

This afternoon I took my Suburban to a local "diesel only" repair shop. He was only able to listen to the engine and said that it sounded like lifters on turbo side. He suspects that the plastic connector(s) have broken etc. Unfortunately, he is not able to get to the vehicle till after the new year. Does anyone have any information of experience with these plastic lifter connectors. (I maybe using the wrong name for the connectors) Are there things I should have him do while the valve covers are off or any upgrades?

[Arlie]

Check out this place in Iowa for what appears to be a very good deal on a Goodwrench long block.

http://store.zips.com/proddetail.asp?partnum=6.5%20DSL%20LONG%20BLOCK

First make very sure you need one. Check my post "Engine ID Number?" to see how my engine was resurrected from the grave with help from Jim. :D

Arlie

[EscaladeDiesel]

Hey Arlie...thanks for the info. I only hope that my engine will need minor lifter repairs, and that other internal damage will be found.

[Tractor]

ESCALADE DIESEL
Been sorta following this post for sometime. This happen to me about 6 months ago. Great running engine I had, was pulling a load at about 73mph or so. Oil line connector broke, heard different sound, seen no boost, no oil pressure. It was not long at all before it got shut down, Turbo is the first to loose oil, it is the first to go. Truck sounded about normal, but oil pressure was down, smoked a bit cause turbo was gone and of coarse power was off. That was a test after oil line was replaced. To make a short story out of this, we got it to my dealer pulled the pan and did some checking and found bottom end damage. I hate to tell you this but you have most likely hurt the engine more then lifter troubles. Nothing is cheap on a diesel to fix. We got a new engine in the truck and it is running great as ever. The Diesel Page has some great advertisers with it. But be careful bent tin work on some rebuilt engines don,t excite me very much, wonder what is inside it. Good luck. New DURAMAX that I seen today at the dealer was a loaded crewcab short box,allision for about 47,000 or so dollars. The other makes of trucks are all priced right in the same area.
TRACTOR and T.J.#364 with a couple of slightly dandy cranked 6.5,s and a Dually HO 6 speed 2003 Leather and all that stuff CUMMINS.

[EscaladeDiesel]

Yep, I am not expecting any miracles, but keeping my fingers crossed all the same, as I could use a break. Oddly enough, the power seems to be as it was prior to the line failing, the turbo seems to be working (but not sure how to test it), and my oil pressure is in the normal range only slightly lower than usual when at idle, BUT, still in the normal range.

[DAVE FERENCZ]

SORT OF ON TOPIC... The clips for the oil line are one time use only. If you had any work done on your engine check old repairs to see if their had ever been a reason to disconnect these. If they used the old clips failure could occur at any time. You may have recourse against previous repair. My rebuilt engine was being test driven by mechanic before returning to me and the oil line clip failed. He shut down right away didn't even pull over. He later found out you cant use these twice even though they look fine. He also said the lines are whimpy for the amount of oil pressure produced on cold start. He suggests keeping rpm down on until pressure drops.