Bio Diesel

[Herman_Bolger]

I am looking for someone that has personal experiance with making/using bio diesel.We have been searching the net and finding a lot of he say's, she say's type information.
Is there anybody on this site that has made their own bio fuel?
Any info that you could share with us would be great.

Herman
offshoremarine02@aol.com

[TurboDiverArt]

There is a thread about 15 threads down from yours that has been active for days called Bio Diesel Manufacturing...

http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008788

There is one guy whose father just manufactured his own home brew. There are links to other useful sites.

If you do a search you will find plenty of other threads.

Art.

[Herman_Bolger]

I did not see the other thread already started. I searched before and there was some members talking about a show on tv, and so on but i was looking for someone that was doing it. I will check out the other thread, i don't know how i missed it, thanks.

Herman

[convert2diesel]

Herman:

We have been making and operating with bio-diesel now for about three years. To do it right you will need about $500 worth of bits and pieces and enough used fry oil to start your own chip wagon. If you are interested, log onto http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/ and prepare yourself for many hours of reading. This is a very large site but it contains all you will need to know about this topic.

We are running an 89 GMC, an 84 Mercedes 300TD and my Buick Roadmaster (6.2 conversion) and they all love it. We are also firing 2 hot water heaters and a furnace with it.

If you want more info, just ask. Will be more then happy to assist.

Bill

[TurboDiverArt]

You know what I found interested. Not diesel or bio related but related to reducing diesel prices (I think). I feel the best option for reducing dependence on foreign oil and reducing diesel prices lies in ethanol. Yeah, yeah, I'm nuts but hear me out. I realistically don't see the diesel market going SVO or WVO, Maybe they eventually will but I bet in 20 years most diesels will still be running on dino diesel. Lets face it, unless it

[restoguy]

I am totally for bio-fuel as well. I've been ranting about it for several years now. I'm excited to see it getting some media time finally. But it won't be common place until the public demands it. Big oil stands to lose a lot of money because they can't control bio the way they control oil. They will spend their last dime lobbying to stop it. It's obviously the next step in becoming less dependent on oil and it's better for the enviroment too. Not these hydrogen-hybrid-majical-perpetual motion cars that they are workin on. Yes, they are all well and good, but let's do something NOW! Not 25yrs from now.
Ethanol is great but don't count out bio-diesel just yet. It's easier to produce than ethanol(not that the two are interchangable anyway) and easier to use. Just pour it in!(washed of course) I have been planning to run my 6.5 on bio since I got it, but haven't got around to producing any yet. So I am always interested in other people's experiences. Especially with homemade, unwashed fuel.

Just as a side note. There is another little know bio that shows great promise, butanol. It's a 4 carbon chain instead of a 2 carbon like ethanol. Because it's heavier it replaces gasoline straight across. It's produced by an enzime tearing down bio-mass and has been around forever as a by product of acetone production. Now with a new geneticly modified strain they are able to produce the same amount of butanol from a bushel of corn as ethanol, where as before it was about half. Also check out the new Saab Dual-Fuel car. Not Flex-fuel. It gets the same mileage either way but has 40HP more on E85! cool stuff.

[TurboDiverArt]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see an alternative to dino diesel. I just don't see it happening until they can create a process where the price is equal to or less than dino diesel and is better for the environment and engine. I think the real hurdle is creating a cheaper process for bio diesel.

Art.

[Docfranco]

Art,
My problem with ethanol is it takes more energy to make than you get. Biodiesel is a net gain in energy. I believe they are working on more efficient ways to make biodiesel at the present time. i don't recall what the numbers are but any of the good biodiesel sites would have the data.

[Herman_Bolger]

Glad to see that there is some interest in Bio diesel.Dino diesel up here in southern ont. is 99 cents a liter, Which works out to $3.78 a us gal. So my interest is part enviromental and part economics.
There are many good sites pertaining to bio production, they are based on individual "home brewing". There are a couple of commercial operations but, the cost to purchase ready to use bio is the same and sometimes more than dino. I am going to do more research on the home brewing method and if it will not be too time consuming i will produce my own. On average we consume about 50 gal per week.
The unfortunate part of this is that because bio is not a major threat, at this time, the goverments are not taking any action at all to help the bio industry out. Not that i am a big advocate of goverment intervention, but this is getting to be an issue of greater importance.
Our whole economy is based on petroleum products, in north america, we have enough oil to be self sufficiant, but chose to buy imported oil because it was cheaper at the time.
The oil producers were looking at the long term, get them hooked on our cheap oil and they will stop producing there own, then when they are depenadant on our cheap oil we will raise the prices.
You can blame OPEC all you want, that was just great bussiness planning. And don't bother saying that europe has paid these prices for years, they can't produce there own oil, we can. OK i ranted enough i have to go to work now. Comments?

Herman

[ 09-19-2005, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: Herman Bolger ]

[TurboDiverArt]

Originally posted by Docfranco:
Art,
My problem with ethanol is it takes more energy to make than you get. Biodiesel is a net gain in energy. I believe they are working on more efficient ways to make biodiesel at the present time. i don't recall what the numbers are but any of the good biodiesel sites would have the data. If that's the case then in Brazil they must be severely subsidizing the Ethanol production facilities. The price for gas was about three times higher than that for Ethanol. They mentioned it being cheaper at the pump and they are like 80% self reliant for fuel. I honestly don't have enough data to support my position other than what was on the History Channel. I have also heard the same argument for Bio diesel that it takes more energy to produce than is output but this has been pushed aside because someone affiliated with the oil companies did the study, maybe the same holds true for Ethanol too. For ethanol it's fermented with yeast, just like Rum. I don't know how much energy goes into the refining of this to distil off the extra water and increase the alcohol content up to 90%. I would assume this is where the energy usage comes in. I have to believe that the cost of growing and harvesting are the same for Bio diesel (soybean) as it is for ethanol (corn, sugar, beets). It's what happens after that I think that determines the cost differential.

I'm generalizing Bio diesel as diesel that's grown as well as waste oil diesel.

For either, the economics has to be there or the only ones that will be buying it will be the very environmental conscious consumers. Currently with me going through $70-$80 of diesel a week I

[Herman_Bolger]

Bill,
I went to the site you recomened, lots of info. Since you are making you own, could i e-mail or call you directly. You can e-mail me at offshoremarine02@aol.com and i will reply with my 800 # to the shop and if you have time we could talk.

Thanks
Herman

[CaseyR]

Whether ethenol is an energy deficit or an energy plus depends upon you figure as an input. Dr. Pimentel claims that it takes about 131,000 BTUs to produce a gallon of ethanol that will deliver only 77,000 BTUs. The ethanol industry claims it only takes 35,000 BTUs of energy to produce that gallon of ethanol. At least they both agree on the BTU content of a gallon of ethanol...

I think Pimentel counts fertilizer and insecticides/herbicides made from dino oil (been a while since I read the article). I would guess that the industry group doesn't count much more than direct energy inputs - however, I have not seen the basis for the industry group's figures.

You can look at summaries of each sides positions at:
http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/01/8.23.01/Pimentel-ethanol.html
http://www.ethanol.org/PressRelease71905bhtm.htm

[CaseyR]

Don't see any way to edit the above post, so will add another one.

Another site with a number of links to articles on ethanol is:
http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html

Most of the summaries that I quickly skimmed appeared pro ethanol. The site appears to be from a pro environment/save the world type group.

[CaseyR]

Me again. An alternative to processing various oils into biodiesel is to just filter the oil and run it straight into the engine. I have not tried it myself, but have read several articles by various enthusiasts that have tried it. If I remember correctly, the main problem is coagulation of the oil. I believe a heater is generally used on fuel lines to keep things moving smoothly. One needs to remember to switch to a fuel with a lower gelling temperature than the ambient or you end up with a fairly solid mass in the fuel lines, pumps, and injectors.

Hope to try it some day when I get a decent shop built in which to create all my various mechanical fantasies...

[DmaxMaverick]

Originally posted by CaseyR:
Don't see any way to edit the above post, so will add another one...... Thanks for your input.

You can edit your post(s) by clicking on the paper/pencil icon at the top of your post. You can also delete it (goes into thin air) by checking the "delete" box on the edit page, so be careful with that, unless that's your intention.

[JohnC]

Originally posted by CaseyR:
Don't see any way to edit the above post, Click on the "Paper and pencil" icon next to the date at the top of the post.

[gymcarm]

Art,
Taylor Oil Co., Inc.
77 Second St.
Somerville, NJ 08876

sells biodiesel. It is apparently about 15 miles from Edison. You might call them up and see what they are getting for the biodiesel. There is a generous tax incentive for the producers and it should be passed on to you.

I am getting my first bunch tomorrow for $2.25 a gallon. Look at biodiesel.org.

Jim

[trbankii]

Something else to add to the pot.

Yestermorrow offers a weekend class on bio-fuels. As part of the class, several students "get" to make the modifications to their vehicle. Of course you pay extra if it is your vehicle and your vehicle is the guinea pig that everyone gets to work on.

http://www.yestermorrow.org/courses/mmbs/biofuels.htm

I've been meaning to go to some of their building/design classes.